That was a terrific post, Mark! Jonpen could really use your help on his thread. He is floundering in his Plan A due to his reactions and expectations and so far no one has gotten thru to him exactly what Plan A actually is.

God's Blessings,

Say

I agree. That was a great post.
Here is where I am stuck. I did all that after affair #1. It seemed to work. She recognized and still acknowledges that I am a great guy. She committed to reconciliation. However, before she could fall in love with me again, guy #2 came along. She says just a friend, I don't believe it.

So, then I saw the same behaviors as before. Cold, distant, wanting to divorce. When I confirmed the second affair, I was not very nice (I even called the guy and yelled at him). Then I exposed ---big love busters for her.

So now she won't talk to me hardly at all. Withdrawal is very deep and she says she cannot fall in love with me. That makes her sad and wants to divorce. I admit, I sometimes believe that she believes that. I want to believe it is the fog and it may lift, which is why I havent started Plan B yet. She says NC for 4 weeks now but I cant verify that. If I start Plan B, she will break NC and that will probably be it.

Anyway, what I was saying was that she is in withdrawal to the point that I cannot meet any of her needs. I wrestle with starting Plan B or waiting some time to see if the fog lifts. If it lifts some, then maybe I can??? I have stopped most LBs but almost everything to her (even me being home) can be a LB.

Am I unique here. Survived the first affair - fought through breaking no contact, fog, withdrawal. Started recovery, it was going well (I thought), then she starts an affair with another guy who had dumped her in high school for someone else. Not sure I'll survive this one.

When did this happen? Just now? Recently?

First affair was Oct08 - Apr09
No contact started in April/May - Withdrawal ended in June
I think she's done with him (he's married, alcoholic, cheater)
Reconciliation started -Jul and August were pretty good, Sept too
She started talking to second OM in late Sept???? He lives 100 miles away
She asked for divorce in mid Oct
Foggy, angry, bitter, cold until Jan 12 when I confirmed the OM
Still foggy, angry, bitter.
No contact in place 4 weeks?????? if it hasnt been broken
still wants divorce (talking to lawyers and a psychologist)

OK, I just read back through this thread, and saw what Mark had written to you. I guess the question comes down to your last statement in the post just before your last:
Which sounds to me like your at decision time.

I don't want to influence you one way or the other. I know what I'd do.

Do you?

If you want to save your marriage, you'll continue to work MB, as difficult as it may be (are you just having a down day, or are you really getting near the end of your rope?).

If you want to go to Plan D, no one here will think less of you. I certainly won't.

A down day I guess.
Plan A is hard now since she is always gone, not receptive, and mean. Plus, I've already been through a good Plan A once.

I wrestle with should I do Plan B or should I wait a little more and see if the fog lifts from no contact. I hate to start Plan B now because the exposure was a big love buster that kinda negated the work in Plan A.

I feel a bit like a doormat. Most people say kick her out. I would too, but I have invested so much and worked so hard, I don't really want to quit.

Frustrated....

Boy, it's tough as a guy to say this, but "follow your heart," arkhawk.

I'm inclined to say stay in Plan A, but I'm on the sidelines. You're on the field and the defense has been out there a long time, and is huffing and puffing. It's time for a turnover!

Arkhawk,

Have you made any plans toward Plan B? Have you made it clear that the way things are is not the way they will continue forever?

Do you WANT to continue fighting this or is it time to just get away from the drama (Plan B) to take the time to decide if Plan D is in your future?

If you went to Plan B and she just moved in with OM2 until the relationship implodes on it's own, do you have enough left to try again later or has the crap gotten too deep to even bother digging out from?

Is it maybe time to just turn everything upside down and inside out and tell her she has 10 days to find other arrangements, without the kids and without support from you? I'm talking about a dose of reality here...

No AOs or DJs, just that facts, Mam...

We will not be friends if we divorce.
We will not be a family if we divorce.
We will not do Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving or any of the holidays if we divorce.
We will not be a family if we divorce.

Are you at the point where if you told her "Me or OM2" you would be ready for the answer to be "OM2" and just pull the plug?

Decide this with the part of your brain that processes data, uses logic and can extrapolate the consequences of what you decide farther out than the middle of next week. Avoid allowing the drama, the hurt, the emotions enter into the choice, since if this is a fork in the road you do have to pretty much take one side or the other.

Plan B does not have to become Plan D, but you need to be sure that you can live with Plan B and all it entails. You can even choose the road to Plan B and decide to go to Plan D later but remember that if she thinks she is going to live happily ever after with OM2, then when Plan B starts, she is likely to try to do just that. Her 5 year chance of that is grim, but she doesn't know that.

Are you ready to let go or are you still up for a fight? We all have your back which ever choice you make, just be sure YOU are ready for the consequences of that choice when you make it.

In Dr Harley's new book, he says that the one time he sees demands as being the only real solution is when there is an ongoing affair. He says that the BS should demand that the affair end. He doesn't say that it should be a case of saying end it or divorce, but he does say that is the only real consequence of the affair not ending and the WS needs to understand that to be true.

Have you consulted legal counsel so that you know what to expect and how to protect your assets if it comes to divorce?

I've got more questions than answers right now, so I'll just let it sit for a while.

Mark

OM2 is 100 miles away. She doesn't go on "business" or "shopping" trips so she isn't seeing him, but she may be calling him - she says she isn't, but she's also a liar.

She believes that OM2 is not the reason for the divorce. "I've wanted out for a long time". I know better, but I think she may have convinced herself it's true.

Before I knew about OM2, I wrote her a letter (sort of Plan B) basically saying make a decision to stay or go. It included all of the "I won't be your friend. I won't be there to support you. I won't be calling you." type of stuff. That was 23 December, she still hasn't made a decision. Well, her decision is that she wants a divorce, but "You won't let me go".

I am as prepared for Plan B as I can be (I know it will hurt).

I would like to keep fighting. After all, she is still here.

This time around is a little different. She is more adament on the divorce thing and has been to lawyers. Her "now divorcing/recently divorcing" friends are offering her lots of support and pushing her in that direction. So, is it like last time where she doesn't go through with it? She has me scared that she will file, and in the not too distant future.

At this point, she isn't seeing OM2. So right now it isn't choose between him and me. I think she is biding her time, maybe trying to make a decision, while he waits in the wings.

I'm probably wrong but I think her staying in the house is better. If she moved out, she would definitely hook up with OM2 and that would probably kill my love for her. However, she hates being in the house with me.

I have had legal counsel.

I really don't want her if she runs off with OM2 then comes back. Well, I say that now. I probably can't truthfully answer that.

Well Brother, it sounds like you have thought this through and considered the possible outcomes. It also sounds to me like you have committed to giving it whatever effort you have left.

So the pep talks will continue until you say different...

Mark

Well, I certainly appreciate that.

I just hope ya'll help to steer me the right way and let me know if I am screwing up.

I've been doing this 13 months now off and on and I know I've made my share of mistakes during the process. I've seen where the MB principles work. But, the 2d time around is not any easier trying to control the emotions and see through the fog.

Arkhawk, I just want to say that you're one of my heroes! I don't know if I could stand the pain and anguish for 13 months, and endure the doubt, worry and uncertainty like you and others here have.

You, like most, are trying to rescue your WS from the fantasy that is/are her A. For me, I came to the realization that my marriage was the fantasy, and that's been the difference.

Thanks for the kind words. I actually did have 4 of those months that were pretty nice, all things considered, where we were reconciling. Maybe had I avoided the love busters of asking questions about her affair then it might have been different...I just had to know though.

I often think I'm the one living in the fantasy world, thinking she could actually recommit to the marriage. But I look at my little boys and know I've got to keep doing something to save the marriage.

I feel like an idiot most of the time because all logic seems to point to the fact that it's over. But I have to walk away knowing I did everything possible. Just wish I would have read the book years ago.

Wishing for a better past is a distressingly bad waste of time. I know, I've done it a lot.

If only I'd found MB and been able to work a better Plan A...

If only I'd spotted and heeded the warning signs...

If only I'd spent more time falling in love and waiting to get married...

But I didn't.

It is what it is.

This is key:

You and me both. I want to be able to hold my head high, and be able to look myself in the mirror.

You're right.

Man, this is hard. This woman has so much contempt for me now. She thinks I totally betrayed her by exposing (that I turned her family against her). Totally avoids being in my presence. Won't talk. I hope it is withdrawal, but I don't know anymore. I wish I could verify her statements about having no contact.

I don't guess I can expect much for Valentine's Day, huh???

ark, maybe if she had been sincere, things would have been different. Asking questions is only a lovebuster to a wayward whose goal it is to hide the affair and prevent recovery of the marriage. Keep that in mind. If she was serious about recovery of your marriage she would have jumped at the opportunity to do what it takes.

I think you are right. She told me that she promised reconciliation and committed for my sake. Not sure if that was the fog or not. We did do a pretty good job of spending a lot of time together, sharing, talking, etc. But she quit pretty quickly when she made a "connection" with someone else. That made what she had with me seem hopeless, since it just happened with the OM2 and she had to work with me and it hadnt come yet.

As for the questions, she said it was too painful and shameful for her to recall what she did. I think she was being a bit dramatic and owed me the answers, but those conversations usually happened once a week and became love busters. Oh well, live and learn, I guess.

Too many years of her feeling ignored has built up some serious walls with her. Plus she has a lot of emotional baggage that she is laying on me that I had nothing to do with. She is an emotional wreck now.

Well, I don't know if this marriage is going to survive her withdrawal. I know I went a long time without meeting her need for conversation...to the point she fell out of love and is DONE with the marriage.

But she is just not letting me have a shot. She is convinced divorce is the only option. She is a real emotional wreck now trying to decide what to do.

I am really confused though. Is it withdrawal from just not being in love with me. Or is it withdrawal from not being able to be with OM2. She is in there watching "The Notebook". She told me one time that she felt that was the type of love she had for this guy (he dumped her after 2 months 17 years ago and hasnt seen her until about 4 months ago when they started talking)

I wish she'd give MB a shot.