I asked her out for V-day and and said "I have been really wanting to try that japanese place you always go to, you wanna go Sun"? she said "UMMM NO!" I said alright thats cool, a few of my friends were talking about going out anyways, I may go with them.

Why nor ask her if there's any place special SHE would like to go for Valentine's Day?

X2!!

She's treating you as a babysitter IMO. That has to end.

Jon,

Goodness. I was in your shoes, down to the babysitting of the kids while she went out clubbing with our nanny.

Imagine that. I would stay home and babysit while she went out clubbing.

My greatest regret looking back was how spineless I was and how I was on plan doormat. You, my friend, are on plan doormat.

Quit being clingy. Show indifference towards her behavior and be a man.

THAT will get her attention more than anything.

Re-read the 180 I posted to you before. Look at patriot's thread, who is nearly in the same situation as you, and look at the difference in how he behaves versus how you behave.

He has a pair and is acting like a man. He's willing to lose her and kick her to the curb.

I look back in shame at how I acted: not like a man with self respect.

You, my friend, are on that same exact road.

Who pays the bills in your house? You paying for her clubbing?

If she wants to act that way, then she can pay for it herself.

The greatest freedom you can get as a BS is the understanding that you don't NEED your spouse in your life and that you will be just fine without him/her.

Reaching that level of self confidence will make you much more attractive to your wayward.

I know it's tough. Fear controls you.

Don't let it.

I'm so nervous i am shaking right now. There has been no contact. but he just sent her a message on facebook that said "why aren't we friends anymore???" I don't know what to do now!? I can't let her know i seen the message because then she would know I am spying on her. please guys, I don't want to start back over from ground 0 and i know this contact will cause that. Just when I was feeling better now this!!

Delete the message and tell OM's wife that her hubby is trying to establish contact again. Make his life miserable.

I can't delete the message, I just seen it in her email that she got the message on facebook. I don't have the facebook password info so she will still get it when she opens facebook and if I contact him or his wife my WS will know i have been spying.

You have a moral obligation to tell his wife.

Who cares if she knows you have been spying? You have every reason to!

I'm not even sure him and his wife are still together. She removed her married status off facebook.

Tell her anyway--she needs to know. She may just be having a bad day... (that being in reference to changing her status)

Or they could be "separated." TELL HER.

I will tell her, but last time I sent her a message on facebook the OM read it somehow.

That is what you WANT to happen. You want the OM to be uncomfortable and to read it.

We were going out for the first time as a family tomorrow, my WS has not seen ANY of my family since the A and tomorrow ALL my family is going to be there and she is coming with us. Should I wait until after we all go out tomorrow or should I send the message now?

Also, should I write him a message telling him to stop contacting her. My brother works right beside the OM and see's him everyday, he is more than willing to step in and tell the OM to back off. I have ALOT of friends that WANT to beat this guy, but thats not what I want.

Don't bother trying to tell him to back off.

Send the message now. She's going to be spitting venom either way, whether you do it now, or later, so why delay? Get it over with.

This is also the goal for all of us I would hope. Being controlled by someone is not being loved by them. Its like having to ask for a present every birthday because they wouldn't give you one otherwise and then being happy because you got them to give it to you. Or, making some sort of action,behavior the criteria of whether you loved them or not. Its all Crazy.
She must know that your love for her does not depend on her actions and that you will love her regaurdless. You don't need her to act a certain way to give her loveing attention.
Thats Plan A and it is no picnic and even harder now because your taker is really hurting bad. All your pain, fear and frustration is coming from the taker part of your personality, we all have it, its the little soft underbelly childish baby in us that reacts out of fear because we care about anything but being fed, held and comforted. You are to feed her taker AS IT CORRESPONDS TO A HEALTHY MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIP Do you see? You don't go outside what is to be something healthy for it.

For example: You come home from the store, you walk in with "Hi Babe, how was your day today BTW?", she is pouty and quiet and you know somethings up, you ignore what your instints say and do not ask her about those obviuos signs just say, "Are you OK?" She says "What do you care?" You laugh and smile and say " AW honey, you know I do, can I help?". She says "Yeah you can watch the kids while I go out forthe evening"> You say, "AW well I was hoping to go out with you tonight, I already have a babysitter lined up. Did you have other plans? Tell me about what your gonna do. Is it fun? Can I come?"
Now if she says "Its none of your business, I am going out with freinds, I know what your doing, your just acting nice to get something now and you were allways a pr!ck before. Stop being so fake. I don't love you anymore and no matter what you do its not gonna change. I'm gonna get a D as soon as I figure out the details. Don't try to Bullchit me into thinking you have changed. You are just as selfish as you were before and its all an act"

You say "Ok well I was a pr!ck before I agree but I am not now. I understand you think its fake. I really have changed though and all I want is for our marriage to be healed and I am doing my part as a Man to do that. Ive allready appoligized to you for my past selfishness and I am acting the way I should now. Yes its actions but not an act." Keeping a positive countanance and a definate manner about you will be the hardest thing to do in your sitch cuz your scared to death. Its imperitive tho. She needs to see and belive what you are saying is true. It needs to be true. You must beat down your taker and your fears and trust love for this.
Its extremly hard to do and their will be pain involved on your part. This is why Plan A in a situation involving an active affair is designed to have a time limit. If your wife was currently involved with someone I think most of us would not be hammering you about Maning up but in your case the affair is not there and you have support from her freinds so Plan A is all about you becoming attractive to your spouse.

To be attractive you need to not need her. Sorry thats the fact Jack. I will go out on a limb here andsa some things that may sound sexest to our politically correct society and I might get 2X4ed.
Most women want to be protected by a Man and will follow someone only if they respect Him. Why would someone listen to anybody whos very emotional stability depended on them listening? They don't. They want rock steady confidance before they TRUST them. OK well confidance about what? Confidance about LOVE. Not the finances, or the stock market or the state of the union. About LOVE. A love that doesn't depend on the reciever but is present in the giver REGUARDLESS of reciprocation. Can you as a man recieve that kind of love WITHOUT depending on your Wife to supply it? THATS what she needs now because she has stopped being your reason for security and you have to reach out and get it from another source. A source not governed by temporal circumstances and a source that is willing to die for the relationship.
I don't know why its so hard for men to see why women go for the tough guys, they see someone who is just stupid enough to fight for them in the possesive arrogence of the bad boy. Someone who would die before giving them up but live in a code of honor and respect.
So where is that source for you? Where do you find the strength? How can you convince her that you will be strong and Ok reguardless of what she does so she can lean on you again? Well you can fake it for a bit and we will help you but ultimatly you will need to be secure NO MATTER WHAT. Thats what I was saying in the beginning. Isn't that the point? Fact is you will live, and you will get over her leaving if she did. The security she needs from you cannot be dependant on the security she gives you. Shes to smart for that. Im sorry but the truth is waiting for her to make you feel better so you can make her feel better will never work. If it did she would leave you for someone stronger because ppl see right thru this most of the time. Intuitionally if not with objective thought and observation.

Its time to cowboy up and seek the love you give from a source besides your wife. I don't care if its God or some self help guru from the bookstore you need to trust Love to BE your source and believe in it more than your feelings. Here is a biblical referance although I don't know for sure what your belief system is.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding

I don't wanna sound preachy but it will work better for all of your family if us weak and frail ppl don't put our trust in our "feelings" for each other.

Agin tho Thats JMO

ok, thank you Sorted. The affair could be up and running again depending on how my wife reacts to the message he just sent her on facebook. My WS still looks at his picture on facebook almost daily, and i know at this point if he were to try and start something back up again she would be back with him in a heartbeat. I will be honest with you all in saying this... If they do have another PA or possibly even an EA I am done. In the event that it's a PA I will move straight to plan D and I hope you all can respect that.
I am a forgiving person, and I have forgiven her for doing this the first time, it was Jan 1st the PA took place and Jan 14th was the last contact up until tonight. If it happens again I will not be strong enough to forgive her.

Heres my guess, him and his wife probably just split up or seperated and now he is wanting to fall back on my wife. I come to this conclusion because only 2 days ago did the OM's wife remove her married status.

I am strategically not sending the message yet, I am going to wait until tomorrow and re-expose this time to his parents his sisters and everyone he knows. I could tell a little white lie to my WS and say that his wife sent me a message saying that he was trying to contact my WS again. this way she wouldn't know I am checking her emails and spying.

I will leave this up to you vets, and you know what sorted you are right, and i am christian. I DO NOT NEED HER TO SURVIVE. Life will be very tough for awhile but it will go on.

Don't lie. Ever.

You can say something like "There are TONS of people rooting for our marriage. You'd be surprised where information comes from."

But never lie. You can't build a marriage on lies.

I'd expose to her family too. Just that OM is stalking your WW but you're dedicated to building a good strong marriage.

Oh, if she's looking at pics of him, she's not NC.
She's still in the affair in thought and act, whether or not she's talking to him or emailing him.

"There are TONS of people rooting for our marriage. You'd be surprised where information comes from."

Expose now!

Never reveal your sources.

Time for your brother to tell the guy to back off. Even better, do it in front of all the coworkers. Who cares if OM is ostracised fom work because he's a hound dog.