SusieQ, that's a great observation.

I was going to reply to RW saying that one good way to avoid DJs is to ask instead of tell. Statements like "You'll think I'm silly but I want that pair of shoes" or "You won't like this but it looks like we're getting more rain" or even "This is the greatest dessert, you'll love it!" are all DJs that can be re-phrased as questions.

As Pep said, think about what's going to come out of your mouth before you let fly. Even if it means bizarre pauses in conversation while you practice and get better at this.

Then rephrase things into questions and solications for input when you can. "Wow, I love this dessert! What do you think?" Then you can continue along that line of discussion and provide admiration as SusieQ said (I never would have thought of that but she's right). If he likes the dessert (or if he doesn't), ask why. Discuss the use of cinnamon or vanilla or whatever he mentions as a plus or minus. When you ask his opinion, or solicit input from him, then pursue that, he will feel admired and valued.

Do you realize how wonderful you are for being able to do this?

How are you doing RW? How is WH behaving? Are you keeping that bar high?

Hi Mindshare! I'm doing okay, things just feel weird right now. WH is being transparent, open and honest with me. Which is what I've always wanted but, now it just feels kinda weird. I'm not sure how to explain it and hope that no one takes this as complaining. I'm keeping a watchful eye on his actions and I am working at keeping the bar high.

We will have a call with Steve next week. I'm looking forward to this, since I believe we'll be discussing our EN and LB questionaires and how to meet each others' ENs.

Thanks SusieQ and turtlehead for the suggestions on DJs. Yesterday in conversation I had an opportunity to have WH explain/teach me something and he seemed to have enjoyed that. I've also begun reminding myself to ask instead of tell.

To sum things up I am taking things day by day.

Over the weekend we were cleaning out some stuff and I stumbled upon some of our wedding pictures. I oddly never got many printed and there aren't any hanging in our home. Seeing the pictures made me sad because I now know that it was all just a fantasy. Thoughts came rushing to me like, WH says that he was never "in-love" with me and never had any romantic feelings for me. I now know that "our love" wasn't stronger than anything and that our bond has been broken.

On our wedding day I believed that our love could withstand temptation of an A (we all did I'm sure). Now I know it wasn't true.

Are these feelings normal?

I have many of the same feelings, RW. When The Leopard was moving out she asked to keep the wedding album and a montage of pictures taken on our wedding day. At first I agreed, but then as she got nastier, more venal and petty as the day wore on, I just spirited these items away out of sight. I still have them (why I keep them, I don't know -- I'll dispose of them after the D, I guess).

She's in an active A with a married man and wanted the pictures from our wedding??? WTF? It's bad enough that she took things that she'll never again use, but after driving a stake through the heart of the M, she wanted something to denote her victory over it? Makes no sense.

Some of it is the rewriting of the history of the relationship, but the truth is that (at least for me), the marriage was the fantasy, not the other way around. I am recovering through Plan B/D and know that no matter what happens with her in the future, I am better off without her in my life.

So, in answer to your question, I think these feelings are not only normal, but they're expected.

Thanks Fred, good to know that I'm somewhat normal. Lol

New development in our story. WH doesn't want to finish reading SAA. He seems to think that there isn't anything he can get from the book.

I feel like if he doesn't read it then I will be responsible for telling him what the steps of the MB program are and etc. I'm really sick of this on the bus off the bus stuff. Either he wants to work the program or he wants to move on with out me.


I'm angry and frustrated right now...

I'm still snooping and there haven't been any signs of contact with OW.

I'm sorry, RW. It seems the BS is always the one who has to do the heavy lifting. And in many cases it just results in back pain and a broken heart.

I have backed away from posting a lot on this site, as I don't know that I have a lot to offer these days. I believe in MB and the principles put forth here, but I don't know that I'm in any way as good a spokesperson for them as some of the more experienced folks who have worked it.

Since going to Plan B shortly after finding this site, contact with WW has been virtually non-existent. She has not tried to seek me out, and the only boundary she has violated is by not going through the IM as requested.

She has apparently moved on, is still anticipating her 5th marriage (to OM) and has nearly completed re-inventing herself (from the little my DD has told me about WW's Facebook "makeover").

The plus side (and I consider it a *major* plus) is that I'm now traveling to places I want to go, am doing things I want to do, and since I don't have the burden of supporting someone who is incapable of paying her own bills, am poised to make a donation to my favorite organization that will wind up getting my name on a plaque as one of the "founding supporters."

No no no. :::stamping foot::: Fred, you may not be in R, but you GET IT. You GET MB principles and can speak intelligently about them. I have read so many of your posts, and you're a fount of wisdom and support for this site. You're input is valuable - I don't want to hear this business of you not posting here anymore! :::hands over ears, humming loudly:::

I have a feeling that Fred is feeling a little FUNKY right now. I have seen him posting a bit here and there.

Fred- you know this stuff and you offer some insight into people's sitchs. You never know when you will help someone by saying something that noone else hasn't said, or saying it in a different way that sets off a light bulb. I have seen it.

RW-Of course your feelings are normal, YOU are normal. Keep venting here and asking for help. You are doing fine.

It does not matter.
From your Plan B letter:
* Maintain no contact with OW for life
* Finish reading SAA
* Admittance that you were involved in an emotional affair
* Full confession with a willingness to answer any questions I may have that will help "fill- in" the details.
* Willingness to be transparent in providing full disclosure of all email and phone accounts along with disclosing the passwords to each account.

Personally I think he's going to do just barely enough to appease you and he's not serious about this marriage yet.

Do you still have the apartment available? If you do, I would put some key things in boxes and put them in the garage under the guise of "cleaning out the closets" or "spring cleaning" or something like that.

Bring up SAA again and if he says he doesn't want to read it, move yourself and your child to your apartment. Leave the Plan B letter on the kitchen table with a note that says "when you're serious about this, let IM know"

RW,

Sorry to hear about this development.

I agree completely with Turtle. You need to ask him one more time to finish reading SAA. Don't threaten to leave. Don't try to extort him into it. Just ask him to read it. If he refuses then he is NOT complying with your requirements for ending Plan B and you should move to that apartment.

Unfortunately, it sounds like WH just said he would do whatever you want to get you to come back. He doesn't think you will leave again so he is going back to coasting along again.

You deserve to be in a great marriage with a man that is vested in you and wants the same things. Keep that bar high! You've shown your strenght many times already. You have in in you to do this.

Mindshare

Thanks turtle and Mindshare. I was feeling the same as you both feel in terms of WH trying to do as little as possible to apepase me. I hadn't yet mentioned to him that he needs to finish reading the book since he hasn't yet stopped reading it. He just said that he doesn't see the point. I think he even took it to work with him to maybe read on his lunch break? I will reiterate to him that it's part of the conditions in which I will continue to work with him to R the M.

I would still be able to move to that apartment in a moment's notice.

I did tell him that coasting along is not acceptable and that he needs to be an active participant in this M now and forever in the future. I am not going back to status quo, I hated it then and now that I have learned that we can actually build a strong M that's what I want and I won't settle for less.

In other news...anyone have tips on how to get a 1.5 yr old to stop throwing tantrums?!

RW- I hope I can stick to my guns if I ever get that chance. Reading SAA is only PART of my list for WH to agree with to come home. I figure that he doesn't have to agree with all of the things in the book at first but it will probably go a long way in convincing WH that recovery IS POSSIBLE. That's all that I expect out of it, AT FIRST. It must be different reading SAA as a WS than a BS though. I wonder if there are and FWS who could chime in on this for US.

As far as dealing with a 1.5 year old's tantrums, as I have been dealing with this WH of mine, I realized that the advice given about WS's and children are almost the same. You have to set up boundaries and not back down. When the child crosses those boundaries, you should give them consequences to those actions. There are times when you should Plan A them. DON'T forget, there is a CARROT and a STICK. As they become grown ups there may be time to Plan B them too(although I don't ever want to do that). It's what has been helping me understand how to deal with a WH.

It has to be so difficult to deal with a 1.5 year old and have to be going through this as well.

BTW, I took a positive parenting course offered through Early Years(it is a program for parents of children 0-6 years old). You could google positive parenting and there is a TONNE of stuff there for you to look at. It makes a lot of sense. It is kinda like the way MB is for M.

I hope this helps.

Scotland I hope my WH gets the same as you want your WH to one day get from reading SAA. To know that recovery is possible and that our M doesn't have to go back to the way it was.

I've stated before in my thread that I am such a softie so DS has gotten spoiled over the past couple months. Thanks for the advice. I can see where I need to place some boundaries for him and how I don't always stick to them.

Off to google the positive parenting course now...thanks!

I really like that you have that apartment on standby. Hope you don't need it but I'm SO glad it's still available in case you do.



Perfect.

I personally think 1.5 year olds have temper tantrums because they have desires, likes, and dislikes but no vocabulary yet to express themselves. I just ignored mine and honestly they only ever had a couple. If you're at home just leave the room and let them work out the frustration. If you're in public just blush and get out with as much dignity as you can.

Don't buy them a toy or something that would reward the tantrum, but at 1.5 there's no point in punishing it either. It's just life.

Make sure your child is getting enough sleep and that they have a fairly regular schedule. That helps a lot.

I do try and keep him on a regular schedule because he's a cranky pot if I don't. I hadn't fully thought about the fact that he knows what he wants and isn't full able to express it right now.

I'm always so nervous when we are out in public because I don't want him to have a total breakdown over something. I haven't bought any toys or etc. but that's mainly because I'm cheap. lol

Thanks for the advice!

WH likes to go to his friend's house to play a football game. The last time he went I told him it was IB that I didn't like because he made the decision on his own as to when he was going and how long he would stay and etc.

Today he asked me whether I would agree to him going on an agreed upon day and staying for an agreed upon time. My response to him was that I am not totally against him going to his friend's house however; I believe that we should first have a plan in place as to how we will spend UA time together and THEN schedule in time for us to do things independently.

I figure he's a man that always like to have a plan and that we should plan the UA time until it feels more natural for us to be spending time together.

Did I handle this correctly?

Thanks Pep. We are going to talk about it this evening.