No offense, but your plan sucks. I would confront her in marriage counseling, expose to EVERYONE in her side and OM's side (including the kids), and if she didn't come crawling back asking for forgiveness and ask what can she do to fix things and make you feel safe, I would file for legal separation and try to get her removed from the house. Even if she doesn't willingly move out, the legal separation will help get her out eventually so you can plan B before divorce.

No offense taken, I get a lot of that around here.

MC is becoming more and more useless, just as this board said they are. In an individual session, he was the one who advised a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to the ongoing contact.

It is also clear that there will be no "crawling back", no matter what I do or who I expose to.

Plan B will include further exposure and letting the kids know. This whole thing is affecting my interaction with them and that cannot continue.

I have started to ask for lawyer recommendations.

This should very much concern you. Your children know something is going on. Not telling them the truth of what is happening between the two people they count on is shaking their foundation. Make sure they know what is happening, that it is nothing they have caused, and that you are there for them. They'll know then why you seem distracted or upset.

Exposure is part of Plan A, NOT B, as long as there is ongoing contact. Your refusal to do this has you in the position that you are in now.

God's Blessings,

Say

Expose = NOW
Plan B = LATER

Let exposure do damage to the affair first, then re-asses your plans based on the effectiveness of exposure. I would expose (really go after OM with exposure this time), do another 1-2 months of plan A, and then file for legal separation if there is still contact.

I did expose, though it was not necessarily nuclear. I lost the stomach for it halfway through the process. Both of our families know. Her best friends knew before I did.

I did not tell the kids and reserve the right to make that decision on my own. It will be made when I move to plan B.

The other man is somewhat of a spectre. He is divorced and has no family that I know of in town. Not much opportunity for exposure on his side, though I did talk to him once.

Waiting until you move to plan B is a huge mistake. If you told the kids now, the consequence of that exposure would be way more effective at killing the affair, and you might now even have to go to plan B or file for a legal separation. You would be MUCH better served to expose to the kids now and let their reactions influence your WW before any drastic measures are taken.

As for OM, you need to figure out who you can expose to that would make it uncomfortable for OM. Who cares where his family lives, find them and expose to them. Where does he work? Show up at his work (with a friend of yours) and tell him to stay away from your WW where other people can listen. Go to the bar OM frequents and mess with him there. Just be a pain in his behind until he leaves your WW alone. Don't give up so easily.

I haven't been posting on my thread, but a fellow BH that I have respect for asked for an update, so here goes.

Final word on exposure: Wife's family knows, my family knows, wife's previous office knows. Her two best friends have known since before D-day. She rarely hangs out with other friends who would look down on the affair. OM has no family in town and is a divorced eurotrash barfly. Don't know any more about him.

Kids will know when we both decide it's time. My wife may be fogged out, but has enough common sense to be part of this process. I am not going to argue this point.

My wife has been in NC since I last posted. I have found a few irregularities since then, but most have turned out to be false alarms and others still leave room for doubt. I have a shakey confidence that NC has been followed.

So where are we at?

Since all of this came out, I never got the ILYBNILWY declaration. Instead, I got the "I'm not in love with you and have no feelings for you" speech. She does admit that I'm a nice guy and great father to the kids, which is the only reason she didn't leave long ago.

So what is the big problem with me? It seems that I am very controlling and have smothered her over the years. However, she's the one who seems to make all the big decisions in our family's lives. I control with the constant little things, like badgering about housework, criticizing her, taking over the day-to-day minutia of everyday life around the house (here I though I was making love bank deposits with domestic help, but was actually making withdrawals in her mind). Working with our MC has definitely helped me see my part in all of this.

So where is she at? Won't wear her wedding rings, won't allow me to show affection, SF has been dead for a year and a half. She is going to MC with me to "find out if she even wants to try".

You'd think with NC now in place that it would be a great opportunity to plan A. Unfortunately, my wife will not allow me to meet her most important EN's. Like I said, affection is out, SF is out. I make myself available and attentive when she feels like conversing, but she totally dismisses the thought of 15 hours of undivided attention, saying "that's not happening". Recreational companionship is out, the only thing she enjoys doing is drinking with her friends. Won't do anything outdoors (camping, boating, etc.) with me and the boys. We went on one date that she termed a "chore".

So what is my plan? Since plan A is untenable (she will not allow me to meet her EN's), I have gone to SickofLimbo's "180 plan". While the 180 plan is not the direct way to build romantic love like MB's, it is much better for my own sanity. I am like a couple of other posters on here in that I tend to dwell on our relationship, what I'm doing, what she's doing, what she's supposed to be doing, etc., way too much. All of which leads to me trying to "control" the situation, which of course she resents as me be my "controlling" self.

Under the 180 plan, I've realize that I can't control how she feels or how she acts, so its pointless to worry about. I am going on with my life, working on my faults, avoiding LB's, and being the best possible father to my boys. If she sees that and comes around, great! Maybe then I can pull her on board with Marriage Builders. If not, that's OK too and I can move on with my life.

I'm continuing to be vigilant about contact with the OM. Like I said, there have been a few irregularities, but some I've found to be nothing and others are still worrisome. I told her the last time that I refuse to live in a marriage with a third party, and I plan to enforce that boundary if I ever find contact again. It will be straight to plan B with the full realization that it will likely lead quickly to plan D.

I have started to make preparations like my own bank account, names of lawyers to contact, and a journal that documents her time away from the family, drinking habits, etc.

So here we are, going to MC once a week and trying to resolve years of repressed feelings of hurt and anger. Since she is the one who "doesn't know" if she wants to put in the effort of recovery, I am left doing all of the heavy lifting (familiar thread with us BH's) and our MC has acknowledged this.

Meet her need of conversation. Don't make it obvious you are trying to meet that need. Just make small talk. Be creative and find ways around her "wall." Conversation is a powerful tool. Know how to use it. There are guys that can talk their way into a happily married woman's pants. Just pretend she's a girl out of you league that you just can't ask out right away, but maybe after six months of laying the groundwork, you might have a chance. It's you only shot of improving your marriage before she moves on to OM#2. She's not going to leave you, she's just going to let you foot her bill while she does as she pleases, unless you can get her to fall for you again.

This is solid advice.

I've been trying to make myself available without puppy-dogging around after her.

Also, absolutely no relationship talk.

The one small glimmer of hope I have is that she hasn't left yet (although I don't know how much I care at this point). The only thing I can figure is that we had one conversation a month ago that led to our discussion of what our lives would look like post-D. She gave me her view, which of course was an agreeable divorce, us still being friends, and working closely together to take care of the boys (after school care, soccer practice, holidays, etc.). Even some reference to me finding a place "around the corner".

Then, I gave her the realistic view. Me fighting for as much custody as I can get, not settling for anything less than 50%. Me wanting the house and primary residence for the kids. No chance at remaining "friends". I would, of course, always put the boys first and do everything I can for them. But, I am not going to make her life easy and be her on-call nanny.

Then there's the little issue of her making nearly twice the money I do (I didn't tell her this part). If I fully prepare for war in a divorce, I could see getting the house, the kids, with her even having to pay child support or alimony.

She may have come to the realization that a post-D life wouldn't be so rosy.

I think I may reached her a little with my 180 plan this weekend.

She went out with her friends for happy hour on Friday afternoon.

Me, I invited over our friends and their kids from down the street for a nice dinner of grilled fish. The kids (who are best friends) played and watched movies while the adults drank beer and talked on the porch.

My wife was surprised when she got home and saw that I had people over and that we had a good time. Their wife and kids had left right before she got home, just my friend was still there.

I also got around fixing a hole in our garage ceiling this weekend.

My wife was sick with a nasty cold and spent the rest of the weekend sleeping or sitting around the house. I was productive and upbeat. Took the kids to church without her on Sunday morning, did the housework (which she said she was going to do), went grocery shopping, and grilled a nice dinner Sunday night. She did manage to come out of her coma for steak and wine.

good job

Nothing much new to report.

I have caught her lying and sneaking around here and there, but nothing solid that I can confront her about. One example is that she has a "Bunco" group that meets on one Tuesday every month. They just eat dinner, play a silly dice game, and drink wine. Being on a Tuesday night, these gatherings end around 11:00 at the latest.

Of course, over the last 6 months or more she doesn't come home until 2:30 A.M., claiming a few of them just hung around and talked. I know what was going on here.

Last Tuesday she had a bad cold and said she'd come home early. That never happened and it was 2:00 A.M. once again. She said that some of the girls were really wound up and she was enjoying herself. Turns out, the party ends at 11:00 as it should and she and some friends went out to the bar afterwards.

She was with her friends, so I don't think there was contact, but why lie to me about it? Just reinforces the wayward mindset she's still in.

I'm not where Linus is yet, but my love for her is dwindling at an alarming rate. I'm starting to clearly see the person she is, selfish beyond belief, grand sense of entitlement, and absolutely no regard for everything I've done and still do for her and the family.

Similar to plan A, our MC is having me do all the heavy lifting because I'm the one who wants this to work. We both recognize that it is unfair, but all there is to work with at this point. But the heavy lifting is exhausting, and I don't know how much I can keep it up.

If there was just one small tidbit of encouragement from my wife, I would be re-energized and ready for another marathon. Unfortunately, there hasn't been even the smallest crumb.

NO EXPECTATIONS. Plan A ends in either recovery, or Plan B.

Maybe you should start planning your Plan B. You may be getting close to your limit here.

Hey schtoop - I finally am all caught up with your thread, and you right about the similarities of our situations.

I know where you are right now, because I'm just a bit further along. There comes a time in Plan A when the ol' lovebank is empty, and your Giver is burnt out. That's where I am, and you're close behind I think.

I agree with Limbo - get ready for Plan B. Don't wait too long, or you'll be hurting yourself.

BTW - small world. Mrs. Linus has a Bunco night too. She's usually home early because she really doesn't drink. Whew.

Why not snoop and find out if she is where she says she is. Before 11 pm and after.

ITA

I'm still snooping.

I have verified from an independent source that she just went to the bar with a couple of her friends after Bunco.

I watch her cell phone messages whenever I can and have found nothing significant. There's always the possibility of having an affair phone, but I haven't found one and have gone through her car, purse, and bedroom pretty thoroughly on a couple of occasions.

If she's still seeing the OM, she will slip up and I will find out. I have already started planning for plan B and will go straight there if I were to find contact. There will be no more confrontations about it, no opportunity for denials or spinning the truth. I will just leave the plan B letter on the table for her and go dark. I will also consult a lawyer first to make sure I know my rights and avoid any legal pitfalls.

I still anticipate her refusing to move out. I really need advice on what to do for plan B if the wayward spouse won't leave. SickofLimbo, Linus, and I have repeatedly asked for advice on this an no one seems to have an answer.

I got beat up in MC pretty good yesterday. Most of the session was our MC pulling out of my wife what made her so withdrawn from our marriage. Lots of stories of me being controlling and generally giving off constant negative vibes about housework, etc. A lot of hit was true and hit home.

HOWEVER, next week I plan to give the other side of the story. I'll tell about how doing and doing, giving and giving, without getting anything in return created that negative attitude in me. I know all this rehash won't do anything to build romantic love, but our MC is convinced that we need to work on releasing and talking about the years of repressed feelings before we can start the love-building process.

File for legal separation.

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