I think she is trapped.

Either:
- cant afford to live on her own
- other man isn't saying "come with me" yet
- wrestling with guilt

If any one of those disappears, I think she leaves.

She has already scoped out rental houses, health insurance, gotten a credit card....maybe just part of the fantasy of the divorce but I think she is preparing for the inevitable.

In the meantime, she won't let me meet any needs -wont talk to me, avoids me, stays at work until late - and has herself believing that her very nice, comfortable life is pure misery (perhaps as a psychological defense mechanism to justify her actions so she can later say "I had to leave or I would have to kill myself")

She is clearly in withdrawal - but I don't know if it is from the OM or just with me, so I don't know if its even worth waiting it out - its been about 5 weeks since last contact, that I know of.

Keep documenting that late nights and that you currently are probably the primary caregiver. I would keep snooping and give it about 12 weeks after last contact. If nothing has improved, file for legal separation with you staying in the home and getting the kids, and go to plan B. Make sure you have consulted with a lawyer and are prepared should you need to go to that step.

Ok. I realize that I really don't have a marriage now, but I am still strong enough to continue this. Seeing my little boys everyday is a lot of motivation...I really don't need her.

I am a little concerned I'm not doing the right thing. I mean, some folks say go ahead and do Plan B. I'm pretty sure that will mean Plan D. But since the purpose of Plan B is to save my sanity, I don't really think I'm that far gone just yet. But, Plan A isnt working very well on her. Of course, the book says it won't during withdrawal anyway. Just confused I guess.

Withdrawal this time is much worse. Anger and bitterness toward me vs. depression last time.

A quote from one of her family members below kinda sums it up:

"I wish there was something I could do to make her see the light. She is so self absorbed right now and hell bent to do whatever she wants to do...with reckless abandon! I don't know what to do or say! Daddy sat down with her last time she was here and preached to her...he showed her several scriptures and tried to make her understand that she is endangering her soul but you just could tell that she was not absorbing any of it....she was just defensive and angry.

If there is ever anything you'd like me to try, just please give me a shout! I'll do whatever I can to try to help. I just don't know what to do at this point. I've tried and tried to talk and reason with her but she is in another dimension right now. No logic getting through. "

How long can woman stay in withdrawal and live in the same house with no desire to improve the marriage? Will this last forever???

Yeah, it's up to date. She broke no contact on 15 Feb.

I don't see WW's behavior as being in withdrawl from OM. She went from one AP to another. IMO, she simply does not care and is all about ME.

I kind of agree. Not sure if it was withdrawal from OM or just withdrawal from me (3d state of marriage). Either way, no fun. I am now not totally sure that NC is in place.

What do ya'll make of this:
Last night I talked to her briefly and asked what had been going on with her.
She said she was getting closer and closer to divorce and was almost to the point of filing.

I asked her if she had been seeing anyone else. She said no. I asked if there was anyone else she wanted. She said yes, OM2. Said she was not willing to work on the marriage but was afraid of divorce.

I asked her what she thought God would want her to do. She said she didn't know. I said I can show you what he says. She said "don't go there".

I said a few love busters I guess (OM2 is a weasel, the children will resent him...).

Actually, I just found out she did break no contact with "her best friend ever". Apparently, he almost died so she had to call and check on her friend.

I suspected as much (been through this before ya know) so I bluffed knowing about it. She lied. She swore to God that she didn't. I kept bluffing. Then she caved.

Why don"t you engage her in conversation? Sure, it will seem forced and awkward and she may not want to talk to you, but be persistent and creative. Surely, she will talk about. The key is to get her out of withdrawal and back into conflict without dropping too many LBs. Avoid the relationship talk. Don't get sucked in. Just ignore it when she says she's thinking of filing. Schedule things with the kids and try to invite her along. Keep inviting. Don't give up. Right now it seems like you are just leaving her alone and waiting for her to "get over withdrawal." You need to be a little more proactive. She's obviously not going to do anything to save the marriage, so you need to carry the load.

About the contact, how and when did she break it? Was it a one time thing, or has it continued. If it continues, you need to file for legal separation. I bet if you filed for legal separation and went to plan B, she wouldn't file for divorce. She'd just go with the flow and not to anything to further the case. Eventually, she might find out the grass isn't greener, she might miss you and the kids, and she might consider coming back at that point. I think this much is certain, she's not going to follow through with anything.

Good idea. I've tried, but I could try harder. Like talking to a stone wall though.

I cant say for sure about the no contact thing since I only bluffed my way into a "hit". She said they talked on the phone a few times. She stays in very close contact with one of his employees (they live 100 miles away) so that precipitated the last call (his employee told my wife that he almost died).

I guess I get to expose a third time since, not only did she tell me, but she promised her family that she was not talking to him.

Thank you for the comments and advice...this has been so frustrating

1) How did you not know? You need to be monitoring this stuff. She shouldn't be able to contact this guy without you knowing.

2) Yes, you should talk to her family, and I'd tell his family to have him back off as well. Since he "almost died" you wouldn't want to have to "finish him off."

3) Why is your WW talking to his employee? That has to stop as well. That's almost as damaging as talking to OM because she gets daily updates about him, so she continues to pine over him and stay in perpetual withdrawal. She's cold to you because she's mad at you for keeping her away from her "soulmate," who she hears about daily. Cut access off to this enabling friend as well. I would tell her family about this friend as well.

4) Yes, as long as you are in plan A, try harder. If you can't anymore, it's time for a legal separation and plan B.

I cannot track the calls she makes from work (YMCA). Her boss doesn't care. In fact, her boss did the same thing. A lot of wayward women at this place who give her support to "go be happy". It really is quite sick. My wife has now had two affairs supported in part by a Christian organization.

I have talked to his family. That one is tough because they tend to believe the lies and think that they are adults and should make their own decisions. Her family will call her on her lies.

My wife is "helping" this employee of his lose weight with counseling and is now a good friend who talks with her several times a day. Yes, I knew immediately it was bad but my wife insists that they are friends who never talk about OM (lies!) and her work actually encourages her talking and helping her to lose weight. My wife refuses to end contact with her.

At this point my wife does not want the marriage to work so any demands I have, any boundaries I suggest are rarely met. Ideas on that?

Plan B?

Let her go try to find happiness and protect yourself from being hurt any further.

Maybe she'll realize what she will be giving up. Maybe she won't. Either way, you will be learning to adjust, live life, heal and become whole again.

Just a thought...

Mark

Yes, Plan B is definitely on my mind. Some folks have suggested that recently. I don't know if I am ready because I think that means the end...is that wrong? I'm still emotionally invested in this so if I am way off base, I'd appreciate some feedback. I've read that Plan B is to protect you from going crazy after fruitless efforts. I'm not near that point yet. Heck, I made it through a military academy and combat so I don't give up that easy.

Today she told me that she took her "Christian" psychologist a lot of the literature that I had (MB posts and strategies) and then told her side of the story and asked what she should do. He told her that she should divorce me and should have done it months ago. (stretching the truth maybe??).

She also told me "Do you know how close I am to putting a gun to my head?". That reminded me of something I read in one of the Harley books about how sometimes people feel this way.

I think you have already given up because you won't do anything to save your marriage. The plans have TWO PARTS, not just one. conflict avoiders have a tendency to grasp onto Plan A and make it a way of life. But Plan A only works in FIFTEEN PERCENT of the cases to end the affair and persuade the WS to commit to the marriage.

Your wife has already had 2 affairs and is likely looking for another. What you have done is trained your wife to have unrealistic expectations of entitlement which has harmed your marriage immensely. You have been in Plan Conflict Avoidance for a very long time and it has availed you nothing. The bar has been lowered so far that your wife is just living down to your expectations.

Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life for conflict avoiders, ark. It is supposed to be a very short phase that seques into Plan B. Up to 6 months for men, 3-4weeks for women.

Plan B does not mean the "END", but avoiding conflict and doing nothing DOES.

arkhark, at this pace, I envision you will join the ranks of some other men here whose wives have been in continued contact with their OM for 10+ years and have never committed to their marriages. The WW's just reap all the benefits of marriage while they slowly destroy the mental health of their do nothing husbands. The BH's who have done this are filled with a poisonous resentment that gets worse with every passing year. Like you, they have volunteered for this slow suicide.

This why the Bible says "have no fellowship with darkness" lest you will dragged down into hell with her. Satan would like nothing better than to drag you into the gates of hell, too, by breaking you down spiritually and emotionally.

You are a slow motion suicide bomber, because when you go, your kids will go too. Your wife is already gone and you are all those kids have.

You are not a leader of your family. You are a follower. You have placed yourself and your children at the mercy of a wayward adulterer in order to take the easier, softer way and avoid conflict, lying to yourself and telling yourself you are "fighting for your family." They are lies straight out of the depths of hell.

How sad that you won't stand up for your family.