Sex isn't "marital currency." It's a EN. It may not be an EN for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't an EN for your husband.


I have thought along those lines within the last few months. I HAVE NO DESIRE FOR SEX with my husband right now. I shouldn't HAVE to have sex when I don't like it. I am not in love with him. It doesn't feel right. Sometimes it feels gross. I even "politely" requested that we go a month without sex so that we could concentrate on other parts of our relationship (namely, MY EN).

Steve Harley explained to me on the phone the other day how my husband feels about sex, though. He told me that for men, sex is a CAUSE of connectedness -- it is how he feels cared for. While for women, sex is a PRODUCT of connectedness -- she needs to feel cared for first before she has any interest.

Neither one is right or wrong, it's just how we're different. He needs it to feel close. It's true, whether we understand it or not. You can repeat over and over that sex should just be an expression of being close all you want, but it won't make it true for most men. If you want your husband to feel cared for, you will have sex with him.

Steve told me that this is going to feel like putting the cart in front of the horse for awhile. And it does, it really does. It feels empty. Lifeless. Forced. But my husband looks so much more happy now. Steve told me that I would eventually feel desire, once my husband becomes better at meeting my EN and stops LB.

But somebody's gotta go first. The husband feels uncared for because his EN of SF is not being met and so he doesn't want to do anything for the wife, while the wife feels uncared for because her EN are not being met and so she DEFINITELY doesn't want sex. They both can sit there, glaring at each other, waiting for the other to make the first move. Or, one or both of them can start taking the steps it takes to move back to intimacy.



And it's also equally challenging for a husband to take the steps he needs to take to care for his wife when his wife won't meet HIS EN, especially SF. Ask Markos

Markos, thanks for those articles. They were helpful

This really speaks to me Markos. Thank you.

It is hard to take "sex advice" from men, because it's in their vested interest to make sure we women understand that SF is a legitimate need. It doesn't help that I have used and been used sexually (even with my husband). But this gets through to me and makes intellectual sense.

I may actually be a convert

He knows. I have made the "thoughtful request" enough times. I think at ths point bringing it back up is overkill. He knows what I would prefer, and when I start meeting his EN adequately, I have no doubt he will take better care of himself. I know I've used physical appearance as a distancing tool too, and I woulnd't be surprised if that is part of why he neglects this area. He's very down on himself for other reasons (besides my rejection of him) and I am sure that is part of it too.

Take the husband into the shower with you and wash him. All over. Then shave him. Then pleasure him.

He will be stunned, amazed, and probably pleased.

Yes, I'm Catholic. And I think that quote you used from Corithians is part of my stance on how I am handling SF now, with regard to the fertility cycle thing. I really do believe in the POJA, and I can most definitely enthusiastically engage in SF as long as there is no fear of getting PG. Conversely, can't enthusiastically agree when I know there's a chance.

I think it is hard because he doesn't know beforehand when I'm "safe" for sex and when I'm not. I would love for us both to do the charting and stuff together, that way he would know when my body is "open for business" (sorry to be crass, I'm actually just trying to be light about it!). But he doesn't seem very interested in that right now. We have both been so withdrawn right now that I kow we will have to take it one day at a time and just let things develope naturally. Since he agrees that we should not have more kids, at least that's not a point of contention.

I know there are other ways of "satisfying" him. But I really am averse to oral sex. I don't mind other stuff though, but it is not as easy as "the real thing." if you know what I mean.

OK, we're a bit outside my comfort zone now

(probably because there are "guys" reading!)

I think my statement about it being unhealthy is a reflection of me applying renter rules to a buyer situation. I am beginning to see the error in that thinking.

Yeah, I think that's the case for me too, ultimately. It's just that right now, I don't LIKE that ministry very much. But I know in my heart that I would have had this same problem in marriage to ANYONE. The names and some of the details might have been different, but I know this is a ME problem as much as it is a We problem or a HIM problem. Mark's posts about his story have really helped me with this though. And you too, for that matter.

There was a time that I was excited about this ministry and vocation of marriage. Yes, I had doubts, but I also had faith. Somewhere along the line I have lost that faith, but recently I have allowed myself to go back to those memories, and it is very bittersweet. I'm doing a lot of crying these days. I am firmly in conflict and it sucks, because my husband is most definitely in withdrawl and does very much want to skip the conflict stage and go straight to intimacy.

I know that how I act will determine how long we stay in teh conflict stage. That is something I do have some control over. Well, I have resposibility for the EFFORT anyway. The outcome depends on us both.

Incidentally, pay special note of my wife's comment that when a man is being sexually fulfilled by his wife, he feels cared for ... and then know this: when a man is having this need met, he feels cared for, not just by his wife -- he feels cared for by God.

If I remember right, your husband is not Catholic, and you would like him to be ...

Thank you for your thoughts too Prisca.

What I am running into here is an age-old power struggle. I grew up with a sense of powerlessness. As a child, I acted that out by having a vivid imagination and fantasy world. As a teenager, I acted it out in my relationships with guys, and being a virgin and holding onto my virginity played into that very nicely. As a young woman who gave up her virginity and felt very remorseful regarding the circumstances, I started acting out in lots of other ways, and marriage was a part of that play, sadly. I have felt so out of control that I've held very tight control to the only thing I think I DO control . . . my body.

When you believe that you have no control in other areas of your life, that you are powerless, your grasp at whatever you can. It is abuse, plain and simple, and I know that. The key for me has been to see what other things I really DO have control over. And to realize the things that I am powerless over and let go. It is easier said than done. And you all are seeing on the "marriage" struggles that I am sharing. There is a lot more that I don't post about . . . family of origin, children, career, health, etc. I'm glad that I can share this part of my healing with you all though, because you are all so instrumental to me right now, and I am very grateful.

Because of you I have hope. I have courage and motivation, which I so desperately need. Because I am really afraid of the disappointment. Not that I won't be perfect, because I know that's not possible. But that I will fail.

OK, I need to go cry now. Please tell me I can do this....

Thanks Markos.

You know what I have learned over the past week, thinking?

Sex IS "MARITAL CURRENCY" - just like these familiar items listed below...
Affection
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration


It's really just that simple.

it's the same for the woman.....I have agreed to forsake all others and have NO HOPE of my EN for love, affection and so on to be met ever either....it's the same...his SF isn't greater somehow than my EN's.....I believe this is what is wrong...as a couple you must sit down and be honest enough to say WE have'nt been meeting one anothers most top EN's and WE have ruined our relationship....so WE must do something about that....start meeting the EN's right then and there so both of us win and nobody is doing any act (sex included) grudglingly....geez if my spouse thought I was forcing myself to have sex with him I can't imagine how he would react...badly I think...and I don't want to do it that way....I never have.

......you CAN!!!!!

But it will take time....:.:

Not2fun

You absolutely can do this Thinking!

I believe you can.

I may not be Catholic, but as Mulcahey on M*A*S*H used to say, I can transpose. If my reading of Catholic theology is correct, in marriage, you receive exactly the grace from God that you need in order to become capable of being the wife your husband needs to have from God:


http://www.catholic-pages.com/marriage/sacrament.asp

It would seem that you can do this, indeed.

I guess I need to abandon the term "marital currency" Not that it's not an acurate word in some cases (like when one or both is a renter).

What I meant (and still mean) by "marital currency" is the idea that I "buy" having my EN met by "paying" for it with meeting other EN. Sometimes the exchange is mutually agreable, and sometimes it is not. The idea of sacrifice that so many of us go into marriage with.

When it finally clicked that I need to give for the sake of giving, because it is what I was created to do, that shifted my perception about marriage, at least on this issue.

I'm sure I will still be struggling to refocus my thinking in other areas.

There is more to intimacy than SF, and many men enjoy and need those without SF, but what Steve Harley told Prisca, as a generalization, is very accurate:


If sexual relations in your marriage is one-sided, selfish, unfulfilling, or infrequent, you probably didn't get there all of a sudden. It was a downward spiral of this LB leading to that unmet EN, round and round. You are going to have to spiral it back up, and that means you have to do what you ought to do at the moment, not just what you feel like doing.

Yes, you have marital duties, a bunch of them. Those who dislike the concept of duty in marriage are usually those opposed to traditional marriage, or opposed to marriage altogether. "Duty, sir, is the most sublime word in the English language," said Robert E. Lee, and he was not just talking about the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Conversation: women want more of it. Well, a man isn't going to engage in intimate conversation with any woman he doesn't trust, and he isn't going to trust a wife who has lost interest in sex, or lost interest in sex just with him.

Financial security is a big EN for women. If you aren't acting like you love your husband, he won't feel loved. He won't feel like working or saving or investing to benefit his roommate.

Extra cooking and cleaning don't earn points that you can redeem for Love Bank deposits in lieu of SF. Think you don't need to bother with SF this month because you are sewing draperies? Or even worse, you don't have time for SF, UA, or RC because you are too busy with other people at church, school, work, the Garden Club, etc. He should understand, right? Oh yeah, he understands, loud and clear.

SF is a big deal because dismissing the need for regular SF is usually just one of may forms of rejection being practiced along with it: walking out the door without a goodbye kiss, not meeting your spouse at the door when they come home, not wanting to snuggle while watching TV, rolling over and turning out the light in bed without a kiss - it's usually a package deal.

Yes, being on the other end of a sex shortage, the pain and rejection it causes is really awful. We worked it out but it was not easy, took a few years, and MB helped me work it out with my husband.

If there is no loving sex and a lot of it, then your spouse is nothing but a meal ticket. What a waste married to a meal ticket.

No fun feeling like just a meal ticket or hired domestic help, either.

I believe Retread is right about all of the above

From my recent experience, my was the first to start doing all of things Retread described in the last paragraph since the activation of SF and I am being sure that I am open and ready for it...as well as doing it myself.