Thanks Chris . . .I hope you don't hate me after my last comment over on your post

BTW, I'm done with cookies. I now want dark chocolate covered espresso beans!

Of course not Think.
I don't hate when folks share their true feelings...especially when it's done in a respectful way.
We can disagree without being disagreeable. I believe Martin Luthor King said that...or maybe it was Kurt Cobain.

I'm sleepy.


Here are your beans:

After that, I'm not going to be able to sleep. Well, guess I will try

I�m currently faced with several situations between my husband and I that probably require some O&H from me. And I am afraid of being O&H because I don�t know how to do it without lovebusting. I�ll give you today�s example and see what kind of feedback you give.

Husband called me today and informed me that he would have to start working late for the next several months. Currently he gets to work around 9:30 and leaves at 6:00, getting home around 6:30. His schedule is not satisfactory to me, but it is what it is, and I accept it as best I can . . . some days better than others. So if he�s talking coming home even later, he has essentially communicated to without realizing that he has made a decision to neglect some of my EN: family commitment, UA time jump out the most. By the evening my nerves are so worn, and I really need the support of another human being with me to do the parenting thing. And also, but the end of the day I am usually VERY lonely. This announcement makes me feel incredibly disappointed, because I am anticipating loneliness, and also because I feel like we have been making slow, steady progress and this is a huge bump in the road for me. I�m afraid of backsliding. I�m sure I can keep up the right actions, but not so sure I can keep from getting resentful, and I�m not sure how to prevent my own resentment except to lower my expectations, detach, solve the problem for myself (IB).

Clearly his priority is keeping up his financial commitment. And for that I am grateful. I think that is very important. I also think it�s important that I communicate my fears and sadness in a way that does not damage our already tenuous progress.

When he told me about having to work late, I suggested that he wake up when I do (around 6 am) and go into work about two hours earlier so that he could get caught up on his work then. He didn�t respond very enthusiastically, so I guess that solution is out. I may also suggest that he take a mid-afternoon break (3-7) and then go back in a work at night. That way he could be home with me during the most stressful part of my day when I need support most (pre-dinner and dinner time).

Any thoughts?

I should certainly ask him to sit down with you and brainstorm how to get around this. Let him know how it makes you feel and ask him to make some suggestions to get around it. Put it just as you have here:

" I really appreciate your financial commitment but I am feeling anxious/sad about you working those long hours. I look forward to your return home and some adult company and help with kiddo/s. Please can we brainstorm some ideas so that I am not left alone at that time of the evening"



If he can't ask him to seriously consider your suggestions - sleep on them and then come back to the table with your combined thoughts.

I haven't read your whole thread - was just about to when you posted the new topic, directing here




I think it perfectly reasonable that he should get up with you and go in early

I think you are asking the right question: "How do I communicate what this is going to do to me, emotionally, without making a withdrawal from my account in my husband's Love Bank?" You are demonstrating thoughtfulness and sensitivity towards your husband in thinking this way.

Unfortunately the hard part is figuring out exactly how to show him that thoughtfulness and sensitivity. I don't have the answer to that, but I'm sure some of the vets here do.

I do have some thoughts:

You mentioned that he's made a decision to do this. He may very well not see it that way. He may feel like he has no choice. Or that all the choices available to him may have the same effect so that he still really doesn't feel like he has a choice. He may have simply been told what to do.

You've seen how hard it is to get people on here to allocate 15 hours of undivided attention per week with their mate. Most people literally think they don't have a choice: that time just isn't available. But it is. It's just that we are blinded to options that we think are unreasonable or impossible.

You may see lots of options your husband doesn't even see: he could just quit the job and get another. Or he could go in earlier, or take a break during the day, like you mentioned. Or he could just leave the work undone. Or he could push back against his management. But your husband probably doesn't even see these.

So from his understanding it is not really as if he made a conscious decision to neglect your emotional needs. He likely just doesn't know how he could do otherwise and survive.

Of course, that doesn't change how you feel at all: you need your needs met if you are going to be in love with him!

So I have another question to consider: has your husband been motivated, yet, to commit to meeting your emotional needs? If he has, then telling him that what he is doing is going to neglect your needs becomes easier. If he has not, then you may want to consider that your goal for now is simply to receive that commitment, which you would work for by first filling your account in his love bank and then thoughtfully requesting that he study and follow the Marriage Builders program (while mentioning that this is the cause of the positive change that he has felt from you).

I do think it is best to provide him context for the other plans you suggested: you would like him to consider other options because if he works late under his current plan, he will be meeting less of the needs that you need met in order to be in love with him.

Does your husband consider it a priority to make sure that you are in love with him? I think the answer to that question will have a lot of bearing on where you need to go.

And of course you know that I am still new at this and just practicing what I am learning!

Thanks Staytogether.

He's not a morning person. So I was not surprised by his lack of enthusiasm

However, going to bed with me and waking up with me every day would probably fill up my love bank so much that I could handle multiple LB from him every day and still be ok. If he would just do this one thing for me . . . Let it go, Think!

I have found that using 'I' language is very helpful. It keeps you from DJing.

Say 'I feel....' a lot.

"I feel alone and unloved when you spend so much time working. You may not be meaning to make me feel this way, but it is how I feel."

"It is important to me that we spend time together."

"I want to be in love with you and that requires I spend more time with you."

Ask him if he'd be willing to work out a work schedule that he can be happy with and have you enthusiastic as well.

You've been really good about explaining how this makes you feel here. I'd explain to him like you've explained to us.

Now, he may get defensive and read into your words an attack.

I've found that when I have to broach a sensitive subject with DH I'll start off by saying "I have something important to say, but I don't know HOW to say it. I DO NOT want to hurt you. I love you. I may not say this well but I don't want you to feel attacked." And yes I have started off conversations with almost exactly that line. I also reiterate it as I'm explaining my position.

Also most men like to help, or fix things. Appeal to that. Ask for his help. Lay out the situation: you want to be in love with him, you want to spend time with him, he needs to work x much, what are solutions OTHER than him working later? See what he can come up with. If he can't give you anything right away - sleep on it, like ST mentioned.

He is responsible for this particular project, which has a hard deadline, and he�s the only one who is working on it. I think he does feel that he is without choices. On one hand, I want to be a �helper� and offer lots of different choices for him. On the other hand, this is his responsibility and I think he probably should be looking for solutions himself.

Those other solutions that you mentioned are things he and I have talked about. In fact, he could probably get another job in the same field right now if he wanted to, and make even more money. But this is not something he is likely to do, and I respect that. And he does push back quite a bit. I think he does the best he can, given the circumstances. I just don�t like it.


No. Which is not to say that I�ve talked to him about it and he�s refused! It�s just that it�s only been about a week of him feeling close to ME. And we have been in this place SO many times before, where I work to get him out of withdrawl, start to feel some hope, make the requests for change, and then we are back in conflict leading to mutual withdrawl again. This time I have MB. This time I have more self-awareness and sensitivity to LBs. And I have POJA to keep me from getting resentful, even if HE doesn�t use this tool. But I guess I�ve been thinking that right now, since he has only just popped his head out of his shell so to speak, that I shouldn�t do too much requesting yet. I think I need to work on getting his balance a lot higher first. I just don�t know how long I should take before making some complaints, requests for change, negotiation, etc.

He has some pretty negative views about MB, but that�s because I shared this site with him a while back and he pretty much zeroed in on the POJA as a completely unrealistic way to deal with compatibility. He very much believes in the idea of mutual sacrifice. And that�s not something I�m going to argue with him. I�m just going to stop living it myself and see what happens.


I think like many people who stumble upon MB, romantic love is not a priority to him. It�s something nice, like sprinkles on top of a cupcake. But not necessary, and not realistic. I know I sure believed this when I came to MB. Part of me still balks a bit, but I think that is from fear more than anything.

I think there are other things that take priority for him (and me too!). Food, clothing, transportation, shelter. But if we don�t have a family, if we don�t have a marriage, really, what�s the point? I think he doesn�t believe romantic love is realistic or possible, just like countless marriage counselors out there.

Vibrissa, I think the defensiveness is what I anticipate.

If he were feeling solidly in love with me, I would chance it. I'm afraid to chance it.

But on the other hand, he is a big boy. I need to trust that he can respond to the situation in an adult, mature manner, especially if I do my best to be adult and mature too, and not bait him.

Is he required to work these extra hours, like for a project? What does he do for a living?

Is his normal schedule 9:30 to 6:00 his that he picked or is it his hours his manager picked for him to work?

I'm a mechanical designer and I had the option to choosing my hours...mine are 7am to 3:30pm and when a project requires overtime, I can work until 6:00 and still make it home for supper and bedtime routine.

Unless his hours are set in stone, there's no reason in my mind why he can't get up around 6am and still work until 6pm and get enough OT for a project.

But without knowing what he does for a living and what his job requires from him, I can only speak from my experience...

Mister Anderson . . . .

Every time I read your name I think of that freaky secret service type guy from the Matrix

He's a programmer. And he has pretty much picked his own hours. He doesn't work hourly, so no OT. But he has a reputation for going above and beyond when called for, like working weekends and holidays, when there are emergencies, etc. And he usually gets a nice bonus each year, which is nice.

I would LOVE for him to go in early. There are two reasons he does not. First, he takes our daughter to preschool 3 days a week for 9 am. I'm willing to do that myself, even though it's a waste of gas, in order for him to go in early and be home earlier.

The main reason he goes in late (and this week is spring break, and he's been going in even later even though there is no school!) is because he has a hard time waking up in the morning. He usually doesn't go to bed until midnight-2am ish, and then he doesn't sleep well.

I really wish he would focus on changing his sleep habits, for his health if for no other reason. But his sleep issues are like my eating issues, and until he realizes that his sleeping habits are affecting his life in really harmful ways, probably when it's too late, he probably will not change. At least, that is my experience.

If you see him getting defensive ease up a bit . Say somethng like 'I see I've upset you. I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent. Let's talk about this later.'

then give him some space or propose something fun to do together. Something that will make LB deposits so he is reassured of your love for him.

When you revisit the topic try a different approach.

His defensive attitude is self protection. Disengaging when he gets defensive not only avoids a non productive fight, it protects him from feeling attacked. Once he realizes, even subconsciously, that YOU will protect him he won't feel the need to be defensive as much.

Think,

Have you read my posts about hovering near the threshold of romantic love, which I've talked about on several people's threads?

That's where you're at now in your husband's Love Bank.

Think about this for a minute: wouldn't it be great if:
* your husband went ahead and started working late
* you kept working on your plan to meet your husband's emotional needs
* a couple of weeks later you notice some other improvements, which give you some hope
* your husband falls in love with you, causing him to come to believe that romantic love is not only possible, but wonderful!
* your husband sees this last awhile
* you respectfully inform your husband that you are not feeling like he is -- that you are not in love with him -- and inform him of a couple of the causes
* after four or five weeks, your husband tells the company they are going to have to find somebody else to work on this project, and starts spending that time with you instead, meeting your emotional needs
* YOU fall in love with your husband

Wouldn't that be great? That's just one way in which this might play out.

It's hard to look past that first bullet point, though, isn't it? It's hard to imagine that the answer could be "yes" to that question if you just look at the top.

Hunt down one of those posts about hovering at the romantic love threshold, or I'll write one custom here just for you.

Hi Think,
I can relate to your husband, being a software developer, but mostly in the sleep schedule area. I have never been good a being a morning person. I've been in many jobs where I had to be up early, and never really got adjusted. Given the slightest chance I will gravitate towards staying up later and getting up later. And I seem to have various sleep disturbers, some of which aren't that easy to fix.
But one thing that helped enormously is exercise. I found that a couple of hard work outs twice a week really makes me sleep better. It isn't one-to-one though. Meaning working out today isn't going to make me sleep better tonight. But over the long run, huge difference.

I like this V. Hope you don't mind me borrowing it

Please do Chris!!!

It�s not the first bullet point that I have trouble with. It�s the sixth.

�You respectfully inform your husband that you are not feeling like he is -- that you are not in love with him -- and inform him of a couple of the causes�

Because when this happens, here is how it would likely play out, based on past experiences:

�So you�re saying that all this time that you�ve been acting happy and nice was all an act, a lie, that you�re not really in love with me?�

�So you�re saying that all this time you�ve been acting this way just to get me to change in ways that I�ve told you time and time again that I CAN�T do?�

I have done this dance a thousand times. It would seem that the reason he is in love with me is because he believes that I am in love with him. So when I inform him that is not the case, he immediately goes into withdrawl. Before, I didn�t have POJA and PORH, and not as much awareness about how my actions have consequences. Maybe that will make the difference. My husband has been in love with me MANY times off and on. That IS why he married me. But he wants me to be in love with him just the way he is. He equates change with sacrifice. I know that there is a subtle difference, but he doesn�t see it this way, and trying to change his belief would probably be a lot of DJ on my part.

I have a very hard time believing that I will ever be in love with him. The reason I�m doing what I�m doing is because it�s what I promised to do. It�s the right thing to do. It�s what God apparently called me to do. And the alternative (not doing care, protection, time, honesty and unity) would ultimately result in my own self-loathing.

But this is not a problem that calls for a solution tomorrow, or even next week. I think as long as I�m doing what I am supposed to do the solutions will make themselves known to me. I�m not worried about it, because I have my alanon program as well as MB to help me through the peaks and valleys.