And...correct me if I am wrong...but you don't do gaming.



How is your weekend going?

No. I don't do gaming

Aside from feeling REALLY awful yesterday, I'm having a good weekend, marriage wise and beyond. Husband is feeling very close to me. He's got a camping trip planned next weekend and said part of him wants to cancel. I didn't ask him to do this but said it does make me lonely when he's gone.

He's having a hard time right now health-wise, sleep-wise, work-wise. I'm trying to keep the pressure off and make sure that my requests are very thoughtful and not badgering, and that my honesty is not really a DJ.

To reiterate, I really thought he would grow out of gaming after we got married and had kids.

Then again, I also thought I would grow out of some of my less than stellar behaviors too, and, well, if you don't want to let go, you don't want to let go. So I appreciate where he is coming from, even if I can't appreciate the actual activity itself.

And I have a program. He doesn't. I need to remind myself of that.

Many people expect certain things to change and other things to not change with marriage. I have read and observed that many of these expectations are not realistic.

On the other hand, I have heard that quite a few relationships end over time spent "gaming." I was listening to a radio show last month and people (men & women) were calling in to share about how they ended up breaking up or divorced because of a gaming habit.

I'm glad you're doing well. I seem to be also; however, I do have a few questions which I posted.

Remind me of your questions Chris. I'm too lazy to search

LA, I want to write a �real� response to your idea of negotiating sacrifice.


I think in theory this would work. However, BOTH he and I have a habit of saying one thing and doing another. So we could negotiate a temporary agreement, and it is very likely that he won�t hold to it. He can be enthusiastic one day, and very unenthusiastic the next. And to be fair, I am the same way. However, I tend to think I am a bit more disciplined than he is. I�m willing to endure short-term pain for long-term gain. So his he, but our definitions of �short� are VERY different.

So since I can�t control his habit of saying one thing and doing another, and can only control me, how might I proceed? Get it in writing, post in on the fridge, and point to it every time he renigs?

He SAYS he�s going to have to work late some nights, but he doesn�t tell me what nights until the morning of if I�m lucky. Usually it�s more like 3 in the afternoon, and on a Wednesday or Friday when I�ve got all 3 kids all day and am dog tired, that is a recipe for me going over the edge. It�s the uncertainty of which nights he will be late that gets to me more than anything. And his statement about �I�m going to have to work late more because of this project� is his justification for springing the late nights on me at the last minute. I understand that he needs to be available to work a few extra hours now and then, but I do not think it is fair for it to be spontaneous on his part, when a little advance planning would go a long way to giving me what I need, namely, the chance to line up that self-care for myself.

As for him changing his habits, I think this would definitely be a case of him saying one thing and doing another, even just temporarily. In order for him to keep his end of the bargain, I would have to be the enforcer, which is a HUGE HUGE LB for me. I do not want to be the one to wake him multiple times in the morning. One wakeup call is my limit without getting resentful. He can set an alarm clock. Nor do I want to be the one who reminds him every night, �you promised no WoW this month.� Painting will not go away, because he has a tournament that he is leading next month and he has to have everything done by then.

He wants to �have it all.� He wants to continue painting, continue gaming, continue having a job, continue having a wife, continue having a family, continue having his friends. And sometimes, life itself demands that you CAN�T have it all at the same time. I have learned this the hard way as a mom. That my wants and desires have to be put on the backburner, maybe for years, maybe forever, until the time is right. I�m OK with that, because I chose to be a mom and a wife. And if I focus too much on the things that SHOULD be on the backburner right now, then I get resentful and really regret being both! And that�s something in my control. I can change my attitude, because living with my resentment really sucks and makes me want to stop living altogether.


SO true. I can choose to hold myself to my agreements and protect myself from my own resentment.


Courage, Think


How do I do this? I get it in theory, but not practical application. Example?


Really good point. I�m trying to find that balance. I have a good sense about when it�s just a distraction though. I get this �buzz� feeling that feels close to obsession. Getting that and I know that I am close to the edge. That I�m trying to control something. And if I start picking a fight, time for phone-a-friend or doing something different


This is very interesting. Next time I�m in that really lonely place I�ll have to meditate on this and see what comes up.


You�re a �program person� right? Well, we talk a lot about doing the next right thing. My sponsor says that if you can�t do the next �right� thing� then do the next �wrong� thing. Just do something different and learn. So I�m not worried about another distraction, as long as it�s a different distraction. Even being on MB as much as I am is a bit of a distraction. You know that �buzz� I just mentioned? I get close sometimes, even though what I�m getting here is also very good for me. Because it�s different.

Well, distraction has its place.



Good for you being aware of that "buzz"...I'd like to know more about it...does it feel like all synapses are firing at the same time, greater clarity, a rush (all of the preceding)? We are control addicts, which is where most of our resentment comes from. We do get chemicals released in our brains from "using"...so being in touch with that buzz as an alert is awesome. Kudos.

POJA...you can POJA actions to do when POJA isn't being followed...as aid, not attack. You do what you just did, Think, and share how you know neither of you are great at keeping agreements all the way through. So you brainstorm what ways are helpful...and keep resetting your statements for temporary...because you may resent mightily looking at waking him up every work day for the rest of your lives...you may not mind at all waking him up to get up and have an hour of UA time with you.

Multiple awakenings...progressive. Again, talk about how the first wake up at 6am would be a kiss, then a shake, then cold water. Might really help you with boundary enforcements and be kind of fun. Or just a kiss and cold water. Negotiate. Negotiate supporting POJA'd decisions, and even when to re-POJA again.

When you get that buzz and begin to pick a fight...and you realize...a different choice could be "I want to pick a fight with you. I want to be snotty and demanding right now."

(That's from my own experience...you would never be snotty. )

Just because he has a tournament next month with the painting, doesn't mean it isn't POJA'ble. Remember you're negotiating rewards (instead of sacrifice)...and you can say, "I hear you asking a whole lot of me for the duration of your deadline crunch time. What are you offering as a reward? Week in Paris, alone with you? How about <blank>?" Seriously...find your own enthusiasm here...what would get you into the mood for it?

Same for him...what would get him enthusiastic about getting up earlier (and going to bed earlier) temporarily, just during this crunch time?

Your job is to keep your eyes on doing the POJA'd support, rather than on his choice not to hold to the agreement. You change your focus to you, and what you do and don't do and why...and stick to sharing it.

What if you knew he called you about late nights as soon as he knew? And if you had a call list of five people who were flexible with their nightly plans...and could come over for a spontaneous potluck when you get the 3pm call. Or even that they can do a half-hour visit by phone after the kids are in bed?

And yes, meditation...where you only focus on your breathing...just you and the breath of life.

You can have another list after the fav five...meditation, bubble bath, do-it-yourself mani/pedi, dancing to music, smiling in the mirror without criticism in your head...the acts of self-care...you're creative and can think of more...as backups.

Mostly, separate your H from your kids...which is you separating your Wife role from Mothering...the getting the POJA in writing, posting it on the fridge, pointing to it...is based on the assumption of forgetting. Up to you to know he knows...just like you do...POJA'ing for our own weaknesses (don't forget what he can do when you aren't holding to the POJA). Stating you know he knows and how drawn you are to reminding, demanding, wanting him to have accidentally forgotten (see where it helps you inside) and not giving into that fantasy.

As far as going to bed earlier...try new things...like foot rubs, head rubs, face massages...meaning after he comes home, eats, and before he gets on WoW or painting, he agrees to one of these, for relaxation...and I think the painting is part of his decompressing...hand rubs are good, too, with lotion.

You can make these just ten minutes...a pause in the pattern...and then 15 minutes...20 minutes...and be open to not knowing if he'll fall asleep sooner or not...you're just paving the way...and getting part of your EN for Affection met, attention, appreciation...bits and pieces.



Not over-doing or under-doing...and definitely not doing if you'll resent. Honesty...and let him know when you begin to hear/feel that buzz...let him in on what you're working on.

How long until the deadline is over?

LA

I put them in my thread

I think you answered one, but I have another today about porn.

There is a really, really spectacular section about this resentment in the Effective Marriage Counseling book. I read it just this morning ... remind me and I will try to transcribe it for you!

Shoot, my plan is to game WITH my kids once they are old enough.

The one time my wife and I did it together, we enjoyed it. Maybe we should put that on our undivided attention schedule.

You know there's more games than just D&D, right? Maybe you can find one both you and your husband like...

(Or not. I'm not encouraging you to sacrifice!)

Look at the number of people you read about on this forum who have an affair and are willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING, including their dearly held values and their children, for the feeling of "being in love." Most of them will say something like "I never felt this way before."

People who are not in love don't fully understand what they will do when they are in love, nor do they understand how much they will value it. Right now, he probably doesn't feel willing to change for you. Once in love, however (once your account in his love bank rises and stays above the romantic love threshhold) things may be very different!

Read a great story in HNHN last week, toward the end, about a man whose wife was meeting his needs but who did not meet hers. He was counseling directly with Dr. Harley. He woke up when he realized he might lose that if he did not change.

LA, I'm totally LOL about "cold water"

I love the idea of POJA �rewards� and not just the �sacrifice.� I think that makes it more palatable for both of us.

I REALLY wish I had that 3 pm potluck call list. Right now I�ve got my parents (which is at least a start). I need to make this a priority for me, and something in me is blocking it right now. Kinda like procrastination. I know that procrastination is usually a sign that I�m suffering deeper resistance to something. And usually when I discover that �deeper something� the procrastination lifts. In this case, I suspect part of me actually likes being the victim and I�m not yet ready to take responsibility for myself yet. However, knowing that will probably go a long way for me to BE ready and actually take action when I am instead of sitting by and letting another opportunity pass. Mostly I�m a big chicken when it comes to making friends. Not an excuse though.

My �tried and true� solution to the last minute late night is going out for supper with the kids at the mall. Now for some people going out with the kids would probably send them over the edge! My mom would never dream of this! LOL But for me, just being around other people helps me enforce a boundary of no AO at the kids. It�s easy to AO at them if there�s no one looking. In public, different story. I�ve found that as I practice my better behavior in public, I�m getting better at it in my own home too.

I�m not sure about when the �deadline� is over. I think officially it is the end of June. But after than it will just be another deadline, and another. It�s kind of the nature of the job. He�s about as good at setting boundaries as I am . . . LOL. And I think if he set some boundaries for himself at work these �deadlines� and �high stress times� would probably be less troublesome.

Honestly, I think part of him was seeing all the improvement of the past few weeks and wants to �test me� to see if I will still be �nice� even if he pulls some of this stuff. I think there is a part of him that is subconsciously trying to get me to react. Inside, I am most definitely reacting. But I�m waiting. I�m thinking, I�m breathing, I�m feeling that buzz and knowing that�s my signal to STOP instead of my signal to go FULL STEAM AHEAD.

That buzz at its best is a feeling of excitement, freedom, fearlessness, invulnerability. At its worst it is the worst perversion of those things, where I begin to step all over someone in my attempts to manipulate, justify, etc. It is an absence of peace. Of course, it isn�t until you actually experience peace and surrender that you become aware that the �buzz� isn�t ever a good thing, even at its best. The �buzz� is my false belief in my own power over things outside myself. Now I know to pull back and refocus on God�s power working through me and in me, and that can�t happen if I�m letting my own willfulness get in the way.

He is passing it on to my son. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it is a very creative hobby and I'm all for that. I'm also supportive of him learning on the computer, and it is amazing to see him improve in his reading, comprehension, etc by playing WoW. Yes. My 6 year old plays WoW all by himself!

I just don't want it to become a substitute for real life.

Actually, before kids, I played Everquest with him. And I know how addicting it can be because I was. Now I also was not a very good player and just liked to bash stuff. But I had fun until I started taking it a bit too seriously, and that's when I stopped cold turkey. I put my energy into other evening activities like watching TV

I would like for us to play board games. Stuff like Battleship, Mancala, simple games like that. I love card games and could play them all night.

Ah, computer gaming. I thought we were talking about tabletop role-playing gaming, since D&D was mentioned.

I'm all for some computer gaming, as long as basic marital and family commitment needs are met.

I learned a new Marriage Builders concept the last few days that may shed some light on this.

In addition to "romantic love," Dr. Harley also defines "caring love." I have never seen him refer to it before, but I found it in I Promise You, and my wife found it in His Needs, Her Needs For Parents.

In marriage builders terms, caring love is the willingness to meet our partner's emotional needs. Prior to my recent increase in Marriage Builders education, I would have called it "commitment."

Romantic love is a feeling. Caring love is a decision.

Could explaining to your husband that you are committed to practicing caring love for him, for better or for worse, but that you also want to feel romantic love (call it a "crush" or "infatuation" if it helps him make the distinction) LIKE HE IS FEELING (remember, this conversation happens when he is feeling that way, not before) make a difference?

Markos, that is an EXCELLENT suggestion.

Mark has explained the difference between those two types of love before. And actually, that was what our church taught us before marriage. Basically forget romantic love because it doesn't last. You are committing to the DECISION to love, not the FEELING of love.

I think I could probably work my way up to saying that to my husband. But it would take a lot of courage and I'm not there yet.

think, what do you think about making the best of all this time, to get your ducks in a row?

My church taught me something similar, although using different terms.

And then Marriage Builders taught me that the feeling of romantic love isn't supposed to fade. (And showed me how the Bible teaches the same, too.)

((raising hand)) Markos, I need a male perspective over in my thread. Thanks.