Often you'll find when you go down to their level...

they beat you with experience.

We've had BW's here that have confronted the OW only to have the OW start a fight and THEN call the cops and press charges.

If you are on her property or at her work (b/c typically to confront cockroaches you have to find them) the cops are more likely to believe her side of the story.

On top of that...they run to the MM and cry victim and try to make you out as the crazy lunatic (which they already think because your WH has told them you are crazy).

Waywards LOVE drama and they know how to manipulate it to their advantage.

So just "think" it...don't do it.

Besides...revenge, if you are going to do it, is a dish best served cold.

Mr. Wondering

Yes, WH wrote a no contact letter to the OW. Does it help...not just yet....I still have so many different emotions going thru me. I have been reading some of the books he ordered for us too and I am sorry...how can I be accepting and calm and nice about what he has to say??? Why should I make it easy for him for this to get in the past??? I don't know if I agree with the tactics in this book...maybe it is still too fresh for me but right now I don't agree.....

broken,

I love how you are able to express yourself so clearly. Your words are those that open the souls of so many betrayed spouses here - and put the thoughts right onto the pages of this site.

I think every betrayed spouse has wanted to grab the affair partner in some way and "help" them feel the pain of the betrayal from the BS' point of view.

There are some OW and OM who do "get it" ultimately. You will find them here - on MB - as FWW or FWH. They ultimately have understood the pain of the BS and they do figure out what their affairs have done. There are OW and OM who have come here for guidance in stopping their affairs, and have expressed remorse. It does happen.

For what it is worth, it might help you to know that the OW aren't what your focus needs to be at this point. I know you can't help it, though. It is a natural flow of the recovery process to try to understand this facet of the affair - to understand who she was, and why that particular choice was made. We can all tell you that it really wasn't about her, and that she was a choice more of opportunity rather than much of anything else, but that won't ease your mind too well.

Can you consider this thought: The OW is in her own kind of he//, that her own sin will keep her there? And, her sin will haunt her for a long time in ways that will follow her that you can never imagine.


If you want to forgive, then there is a need to understand the brokenness of the people you are forgiving (or trying to forgive). This was something that was the opening door for me in the process of forgiving. Once I figured out that the people who perpetrated the sin(s) against me were far more broken than I was, I realized they needed more help than I ever would.

From there, it was easy for me to see that on the levels of human depravity, I was far above the OW in my sitch.


I stood above her, if you will, looking WAAAAY down to where she was (and still is).


How could I not feel terribly sorry for this wretched, pathetic, depraved person, who had no moral basis, could not find enough love for herself nor respect for herself that she searches bars and even lower places for men, believing that THIS will raise her self-image? That, in itself, showed me who she was.

It was then I knew her true nature. And from there, I knew she was far more broken than I was.......and the forgiveness she needed from me was easy to give. The forgiveness she NEEDED TO SEEK? That part she was on her own for.


Once I forgave her, I found myself permanently released from caring about her. And she no longer had control over me or my feelings. I WAS FREE.


I guess that kind of takes us back to the topic of your thread...

School bus...thank god for you and your guidance. It is hard for me because the way my WH speaks of her she was a pretty good person...with alot of what you might call baggage...it hurts to hear how he was so comfortable with her and how he "enjoyed their time together". I know that everyone asks for honesty but it sucks....and it hurts....and makes it so hard to accept and move on. Today I hurt...but I guess that is what's expected. I am still in this fog and have found myself having a hard time getting out of it. I know everyone says it takes time....

Broken-He really has to believe that OW was a good person and not something like Schoolbus described, which BTW I could say about the POSOW in my sitch too. He has to believe that he wasn't totally hosed by who she really is. It is a fantasy OW that he sees still, not the real OW. I have seen others who are recovered state that this is normal at first and usually as recovery progresses, the WS "sees" the OP in a different light.

Broken, it's small consolation, perhaps, but this is normal, I think. Early-on, I thought of my OW in a similar way... as a basically good person who had a lousy marriage (never mind that about all I knew of her marriage was what she chose to tell me.) It was as if I'd convinced myself that I was doing the woman some sort of act of charity by being her confidant, shoulder to cry on, helping her through a rough patch in her life. That sounds so insane to any normal person, doesn't it? But that's how guys get when they let themselves go like I & your husband did -- the most vile behavior gets rationalized (in our minds) in a self-serving way, to allow us to continue getting the affair "fix."

And the fact that I cared for this person, that I felt myself (at the time) to have been "in love" with her, was VERY hard for my wife to take. I remember something my wife said to me once, in the aftermath of my affair, along the lines of "The thing I have the hardest time with is the idea of you actually LOVING her ... I almost would've prefered the idea of a prostitute!"

Over the course of many months, as my head cleared, I was able to look back and see that "love" for what it was: It was me giving in, in a very lazy and cowardly way, to an unexpected opportunity to satisfy some very selfish needs/wants of mine via a path of least resistance. And OW? I came to see that she was being every bit as selfish & opportunistic. Today, when I think of her (now ex-)husband and how he must have felt as he saw his marriage slipping away, as his wife pursued another guy, and then me, and when I think of how indifferent & inconsiderate OW was toward my wife during my affair, I'm unable to muster any more pity for OW than I'd feel for a criminal sitting in prison serving a sentence (and that small pity only because I was the same sort of "criminal" once). But these realizations don't materialize in just a month or two. It can take awhile.

Wow, Schoolbus, your words are amazing!!!!! I think every FBS needs to read this... You are an inspiration to all of us.

Broke

Probably the second most difficult series of posts I have ever engaged in here were with a person who was REALLY in love with his OW. YOUR husband WASN'T and ISN'T. Trust me, I know the signs. Gloveoil has done a very, very nice job of explaining it. Read and believe because it is all true.

See, we are taught by Dr. Harley that the seeds of adultery are in all of us. And as you look around here and at life in general, you notice the Pastor, the plumber, the candlestick maker have all given in to the inner voice of stupid with predictable consequences they ignore until it bites them. It is what it is. And it is as Dr. Harley has said.

The seeds of adultery are in all of us.

That is a wonderful concept and it explains how this really fine person we trusted could become a person kidnapped by aliens.

I saw something on another thread I want share with you:


I think is it likley that you will get back the old husband you know and love and even, maybe, a new and improved version. And this time, he will have had a life lesson that I believe has hurt him terribly. Yea, he did it. And that, for good people, makes the hurt even larger.

Think about it.

Larry

Larry, I detest this! It's a cop out line that is used to minimize away the offense of the criminal that commited a crime.

The seeds of murder are in us all.
The seeds of stealing are in us all.
The seeds of gluttony are in us all.
The seeds of laziness are in us all.
The seeds of pride are in us all.
The seeds of dishonesty are in us all.

The seeds of faithfulness are in all of us as well!

What Dr. H teaches is that given the "right" circumstances, in his opinion, all of us are capable of having an affair......

Doesn't mean we all will! But those of us who do should not EVER use this as an excuse!

B5S's H has a lot of work he needs to do. He can never make right the wrongs, but he can provide just compensation beyond just a NC letter.

{{{{{Broken5sec}}}}}}}}

5sec, GloveOil is my 'go-to' guy when it comes to getting insight on the WH's mind. Read his posts carefully and you'll learn much.

5sec

We BS's have to love a FWH who truly gets it and calls a spade a spade. GO is a source of comfort to all of us with his fearlessness in sharing what it's like in the WH's mind. Then he goes a step further and tells us what a real man does after he has crushed the person he promised to love and protect.

Thanks Pep

As a FWH, it's EXTREMELY important for me to understand that the seeds that grow in my garden are the ones I tend to and the ones I water.

Hey all....Do you really think being seperated is a bad thing? I mean, you don't have that comfort to fall into and you get time to think about things. Sometimes good, sometimes bad....but at least it isn't clouded with the comfort of what you once had...because that is all gone now. As you all know I have an extreme ride going now and I am wondering if right now I am not better off alone to evaluate me. I go from such extremes that it scares me....I know this all takes time but I am getting alittle tire of it. I feel weak, broken and so indecisive (sp?). What questions should I be asking myself about my spouse that will help me decide what to do? Is there anything specific that helped any one of you?

You really need to be together. Separation is part of what got your marriage into this mess.

Pep & TST

No disagreement:

You water some seeds and you get weeds.
You water other seeds and you get flowers.

Easy.

Both types of seeds are within us.
Common sense.

Larry

Suggestion:

From what I gather from BH, I believe you could afford to talk to Jennifer or Steve at the coaching center. Because of your circumstance, it is gonna be a couple of months before you can be in one spot, if I understand.

I think you need a custom plan. You sound very, very lost right now. And in that state, decisions become very hard to make. All I have ever heard is how great they are.

Larry

There is a short list of things that Dr. Harley finds uncompromisable for marital recovery. One of them is that a couple needs to spend a minimum of 15 hours of undivided attention time together per week (20 - 30 hours per week if one or both is dissatisfied with the marriage) meeting each other's intimate emotional needs (affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, and recreational companionship) in order to be in love. He won't even counsel a couple that won't agree to this. (Although if they agree but can't figure out how to do it yet, he will counsel them to help them figure out how to do it.)

This is, ultimately, indispensable. Does the separation help you spend 15 (or more) hours together alone each week?

Another policy Dr. Harley follows in his own marriage and strongly recommends for any other couple is to never spend the night apart. Does the separation help you accomplish this?

@ Larry, I AM very lost right now....and not a whole lot I can do about it. WH will be back in a couple of weeks so we will see what happens then.