I see you as killing every conversation with your husband with your many many attitudes about him. It oozes out and kills the conversation and on a deep level, he feels these and it hurts him.

I would print off these posts and sit down at the kitchen table and talk about your attitudes toward him.

Tell him you just realized that in many ways, you feel superior to him. See where that conversation goes. Let him know that you realize you have been accidently hurting his feelings with your school marm ways and lectures to him.

Then ask him to open up to you and talk to you about this and tell you his feelings and that YOU WILL SIT AND LISTEN for once and will not lecture him.

You canot start changing him with out first changing yourself on a deep level. yOu cant do a thing until you feel he is your equal.

I have been there...too. Had to uproot some rotten attitudes I had.

I totally agree that attitude needs to come before action. And awareness. Thanks. Will marinate on it.

Get a second opinion; that sounds contradictory to some MB advice I've heard.

You said earlier you'd like it if he said "If the kids weren't awake I would totally ravage you right now." Could you use something similar as a response to him? "If the kids weren't awake, I'd go down on you right now"? (Or insert whatever other action you are willing to do that would turn him on.)

But . . . .

That's what my first thought was. I agree that this is a good idea. . . BUT.

So let me just get it out and then I'll shut up.

But what if his actions continue to CONFIRM my old attitudes?

Like the money thing. I can change my attitude about our different money managing styles. But if he continues to want to spend in ways that I am uncomfortable with, I will probably revert back to the old attitude.

I don't think my attitudes as you listed them were like that when we first dated and began our relationship. It happened over time, based on my reactions to his actions.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that "I won't because he won't . . ."

I'm just projecting. Because the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And just because I change my attitudes doesn't mean that he will become my "equal" as you say. I just won't feel as superior about it. Right?

I have used this tactic before. It usually results in whining.

No, I think the phrase "feeling follows action." Attitudes are different than feelings. Maybe a kissing cousin though.

That is my other thought....

WHAT IF YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO HIM?

Then, I guess all bets are off....

Markos you misquoted me. I said SOMETIMES it is better to change attitudes first before action.

SOMETIMES! SOMETIMES NOT!

1. What can you do if you are superior to your husband in most ways?

2. How can you even respect the dummy?

3. How can you be attracted to that war game playing/fatslob?

4. How can you even talk to him when he is so below your level?

5. How can you ever have a good marriage with such a primitive stupid ape as him?

I don't know how you eliminate DJs, Think, without doing it together.

Then I think back further and remember when I had to eliminate my own before we began watching/listening for them together.

You say aloud to DH when you catch yourself in a DJ. That part I remember well. To help tune my ear...and later, when DH was on board, he would then point them out.

I don't see how you do it without listen and repeat, though. Really. You can hear an assumption (the name-calling is obvious) sometimes when it's in your own head and you hear it out of DH's mouth...so confirming what you heard is important (that eliminates that double-DJ you wrote about above).

If you've begun catching yourself aloud, then you ask him along on the journey...you need his help to say when he possibly hears you DJ (him or others)...and we did this by saying, "Would that be a DJ?" instead of "You're doing it again. You're DJing me" like a fact. Exploring, learning and growing together.

Tough part to do, though. Have to have that conviction for yourself that is NOT who you want to be.

And I think it's PORH for this morning's statement, "I know you know how much I react to "you should" statements. I get immediately angry, as I am now, and I'm wondering if you're setting me up to reject you somehow." Then you get up, get dressed and on with your day. If he replies respectfully, you listen. He may be actually doing PORH in the worst way to word it...sharing what he's thinking about and it's coming out as a disrespectful demand.

Ask what he intended first...without rancor. We don't know. It's a new journey.

Any "you should" statements hit at my button, too, Think. You're not alone. I have heard several times over the last five years, "Wait, that's not what I meant" though when I listened and repeated with my filter.

Understand that you can share with your DH...and he may still be hearing when you share that he's to fix...he's to judge your sharing as what you should or shouldn't be feeling...and in his mind, he's saying what he wants you to feel or not feel...sharing his wishfulness. You don't know yet. You will know. Not all at once.

You can love through his anger...it's his...it's valid. You can listen when he's not acting out his anger verbally or physically...let him know that. His anger won't end your marriage...acting it out will. Same goes for you.



Your DJ that he doesn't have an interest in your journey is really harmful, Think. Give that one another think through...his very reaction seems to indicate the opposite...that your experience of him on your journey is of utmost importance to him. And you've got expectation of what important to YOU looks like, and not clarifying what his looks like to him.

Knowing and being known...you'd be so amazed at the enmeshment, how much our expectation of rejection has it's own setups we don't catch ourselves out...and yet we can see clearly when our spouses do them. There's a reason for that.



The same stuff which can drive us apart can also bring us closer. Understanding first, then striving to be understood.

He knows you, Think. Be interested in what his goal was in saying what he said...ask...act, not react. Trust that he knows.

LA

Another idea, if you could put away your attitudes for a while and talk all about sex for a week (not in the bedroom and not while trying to have sex) maybe that would help.

I took too long to compose my response to your post from three pages ago. Sorry 'bout that, Think. I'm slow today.

LA

Think I just wanna throw this out there as a different take on your husband. I think Bubbles is right in many ways here but I thought I'd offer my $.02.

Often, my DH will say suggestive things like this. "You should go down on me right now" while I'm about to get up to take a shower. or "I think we should bang right now" when I'm in the middle of making dinner. Of course I cannot be sexually available at these times. I found it EXTREMELY frustrating early on in our marriage because I DIDN'T want to be the wife always rejecting her husband. I've come to realize that he isn't necessarily saying he WANTS to do these things at this time.

What he is saying, especially in the morning and he's feelin' frisky, is 'you're hot and turning me on right now'. He's thinking you're attractive and wants some reassurance that you feel the same way. Your response was basically a rejection of him sexually- not a rejection of sex.

So much changed when as a reaction to that kind of statement I said "mmmm I'd love to do that but I can't I have to shower and get to work... how 'bout tonight?" and then let him get a little groping in- let him know I like his touch. I'd also then text him or email him during the day letting him know I'm looking forward to a little SF later that night.

Now, you may not be to the point where you're comfortable doing something like this. But if you indicated that you would like SF but now is not a good time, you could make some deposits by making him feel desired - which I think is something he'd be happy with if he can't get SF.

Sex, for men a lot of the times, is how they connect to you. It is the language and filter through which they speak.

Well, that's helpful Dangit.

I'm chuckling right now.

I have done that Vibrissa. However, I would think aftr 9 years he would have learned that I don't find this funny. I find it extremely disrespectful at worst, and extremely smothering at best. Either way, it is a turn off. But trying to communicate this to him has not worked. For 9 years.I need a new tactic, because what I had been doing was obviously not working.

I like Vibrissa's idea of not "rejecting" but postponing. For example, "The kids are alread up and about, but I'd love to do ---- tonight." Then maybe some racy little touch and get up out of bed.

As far as the attitudes go, one thing I have to remind myself of is that I genrally see what I am expecting to see. For example, H is very meticulous about some things that I don't think are that big a deal. I'm a big picture kind of person in most ways. If company is coming, I want to vacuum and clean the kitchen, not re-organize the sock drawer. So, I can get annoyed and think "Why is he doing THAT? That isn't important, and no one is even going to SEE that!" Or I can either give him a job that does require detail (like dusting - he does all the frames and everything) or I can look at his detail obssession the way he looks at it - if he is going to help, it is going to be perfect. If I expect what he does to be a waste of time, that it what it will look like. If I see what he does through his eyes, so to speak, I see that his "nit-picky" way of cleaning really means he cares.

I hope that makes some kind of sense. I'm still on my SF high, so I might be all Pollyanna

I didn't quote you; I quoted think. So it would seem she misread you.

Marcos, you are right! I see it now....

Thanks,,,!