Sorry you are at this point; however, I believe it's part of the process.

You can safely vent your justifications and then your pals here will obliterate them one by one until all you have left is the reality of the situation and what you need to do to clean up your side of the street.

So you had an AO. OK. I think you said to me (at a time when I was feeling just about the same way you seem to be feeling now) that some days are better than others. It's not about being perfect. Do better next time.

So sorry, thinkin, my goal was to be brainstorming with you, not making you feel defensive. If there were 100 couples posting, they may have 100 different solutions that help them. My H wasn't into going to social events for years, either, until he got to know a few of the folks in more informal get togethers, like a friend just popping by with her kids. It wasn't an overnight thing for us. I understand how it feels when your spouse doesn't enjoy what gives you strength, when you want to share it together. If there was something I did that was unhelpful, please let me know, so I can cut it out.

He has no interest in doing anything that has anything to do with the program.

Do you blame him? The other members are older and boring. The single moms in your home group are not his cup of tea.

What MAN WOULD want to go to these meetings/gatherings!

Do you want "the weirdo HUSBAND" who WOULD LOVE BEING AROUND SENIOR ADDICTS AND SINGLE MOTHER ADDICTS....AND WANT TO GO THERE WITH YOU...BECAUSE THEY LOVE TO BE AROUND BORING BUT NICE...SENIOR ADDICTS AND SINGLE MOM ADDICTS???

Why would a man EVER want to go TO THESE PLACES except to please you.

Most likely your church is full of these kinds of people too. People he is not interested in being around.

I can learn to be comassionate with regard to his faults and failings, because I desire to be compassionate with everyone (even though I fall drasticly short a lot of the time). But I do not expect the same from him, because I believe that to be an unrealistic expectation.

Translation:

He is a real screw up, with nothing but faults and failings. He is such a screw up that I cannot even expect anything from him because he is so far "down there" (from my lofty position)

Since, I am holy and can be compassionate with everyone, even bums, lazy sinful people, idiots, and developmentally disabled, I can LEARN to be compassionate with my own "screw up" of a man...husband.

Or at least I SHOULD try and LEARN to be compassionate since that is what JESUS wants me to do. Even though I do not want to and I fall short.

Bottom line: It is a supreme EFFORT, based ONLY on OBEDIANCE TO GOD, for me to LEARN to be compassionate to my "screw up" of a husband. It takes everything from me to try and do this, because he is such a supreme screw up. If I did not want to please GOD I would not even try to learn how to do this. I get nothing out of being compassionate to my husband or trying to learn to be compassionate to him....it is total sacrifice on my part.

And I just had an AO trying to push him from getting me to talk, and then I lashed out big time, and probably said some really hurtful things, and I really think its' because of what I'm doing here right now.

You spent 400 posts complaining, begging and screaming about your husband not meeting your needs for communication and then what do you do when he tried to speak with you????

YOU YELL AT HIM!!!!!

GEEZE GIRL!!!!!

NED, no you did not do anything unhelpful. The problem is that I'm my own worst enemy. And being on here just feeds it. As Bubbles in her kindest of ways just pointed out. 400 complaining posts and nothing to show for it except the negativity that comes from complaining. This is not healthy for me. Not because of you. Because of me.

The best thing to do seems to wait for my husband to ask for a divorce and just accept him as he is until he walks.

Why do you yell at your husband when he is trying to communicate with you? I would like to know why.......?

We are geting to the truth here and you dont like it do you? Now you are having a pity party and pretending to "give up">

Refresh my memory, what is so bad about your husband that you cannot stand a moment of being around him? Perhaps you are the "wierdo", not him?

Feel free to "run away".

But know this: We are starting to learn the truth about you.

You appear to want your husband to communicate with you, but the truth is, you only want him to communicate in the WAYS you think he should communicate and the subjects that YOU want to talk about.

Any other communication from him, you do not like it and you shut him down by your yelling at him and hurting his feelings. No wonder he does not want to communication with you. Who would? What sane person would want to communicate with you if half the things they communicate about are yelled at, and shut down in a hurtful manner.

You have effectively TRAINED HIM NOT TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AND NOT TO BE INTIMATE WITH YOU IN THE WAYS YOU WANT AND NEED!

[size:20pt][size:14pt]You are actively cheating yourself out of the intimate, communicative marriage that you want, desire, and crave. [/size][/size]

And on top of this, you are BLAMING YOUR HUSBAND FOR THIS MARRIAGE NOT BEING COMMUNICATIVE AND INTIMATE!!!

You do not realize your part in this. You are keeping your marriage bad by the things you do and the things you say and how your actions do not at all match up with your words.

You are quite a "difficult pill".

think, I will confess that I am not good at this. Every once in awhile I might say something profound, but advice isn't my forte. I am too touchy feely (even if I am a crotchety old fundamentalist Christian - ha!), and I am only a month out of the hospital...because of suicide stuff.

I don't know what you should do, but giving up is not it. I may never have everything in my life be the way I always "thought it would be," But one thing I won't do is give up. DH may leave, I may stay "chunky," people may cuss me out, I may not find the perfect job or publish the perfect novel. BUT I will not give up. I will be obnoxious and whiny and sad and determined and irritating and anyone who doesn't want to cheer for me can talk to the hand. But I will not give up. EVER

So how 'bout it...should we be obnoxious and stubborn and determined together????

Bubbles, Who is we that are starting to learn the truth? The facts or the truth?

Fact is shes having problems and is here for help.
Truth is we all want to help.

It just sounds so "witch-hunting" for you to say that. It would make me feel very isolated to hear that kind of stuff.

I do understand that thoughts and actions need to be challanged and she does also I think. But we are not qualified to challange her with outright yelling at her. That would be a therapists job after she had put herself in thier hands.

We are here to support her and brainstorm and identify with her. Any ideas we have, reguardless of our instincts of what she might be experiencing and why, can only be offered.

We know nothing about what God may have in store for TTT and her marriage all we can see is the problems she has shared with us by her own free will.


TTT I think you are scared of something but it would take someone better than I to diagnose what it is. I am not a therapist and as you know and aknolwedge this site is to discuss ways to implement MB. Which you honorably are attempting.

In time if both you and your husband could use these tools taught here I beleive you would restore or even create intimacy different than anyone here could ever imagine for you both. As you said, You are capable of so much more and that means you want that also.

If both you and your husband can dream together someday because you both can connect spiritually by any means the world has for you then these tools will just make life that much more sweeter. You could use radical Honesty and enthusiastic agreement to straighten out past problems as well as put them to rest.

More later TTT hang in there

I made it smaller...

Aww thats sweet Bubs

I just didn't want her to think we are out here trying to "get her" or "catch her"

I did see where your post pointed out some stuff thats gone wrong BTW. She has been honest about how she feels about H all along and it seems he isn't interested in doing anything to restore or create love either.


My take is that if they both would try with MB they could create love that has been missing for awhile . I have no idea what it would be built on given its a personal issue between them.

I wonder if TTT believes that God wants her to have that and it seems from what I have heard H doesn't belive in God.

I am not an expert but if H doesn't at least adopt something like MB as his belief system I don't see a recovery coming in the near future.

As far as his spiritual life with God its sad for him that he doesn't have faith. I believe from what I know about TTT that she has done much in the past to help him with this. She even stated that he said he felt she would show him or fix him,(forgot how she put it). Its a mistake many of us men make to some degree. She is a very devout christian so I think thatwill continue to be an issue for them.

DoormatNoMore has an awesome thread and he recovered his marriage while he had issues with the church his wife still belonged to. It takes effort from the Man

SSO,. but her husband DOES believe in God! Just not like she does. He believes, I asked her that early on. OF course, she may think he is not as "religious" as her since he does not love being in church, fellowshipping, reading the bible with her or talking for hours each week about the church message after Sunday services.

My husband is the same way. He does believe in God. Trusts in God too. Does not like being religious or taking part in churches, etc.

Ah this is such touchy territory tho isn't it? I am tempted to say "The demons believe and tremble" and stuff that insults men who are doing the best they can to live right before Him.

I know I have allways believed in God but have not allways agreed with him. It took moments where I was challenged face to face to shake me up sometimes. I am not saying that he needs that so he can "get right". If he trusts the matters of his heart to God then does he appreciate his wifes relationship with Him? To me, being the kind of guy who would belive that God has given me the woman I was with, appreciating her devotion to a power greater than I for our lives would be high on my list.

Do you think she is useing her religion to isolate herself from intimacy with him? It didn't seem so to me. She even said something about how our imperfections are the most endearing things about us. Doesn't seem like the thing a perfectionist would be saying.

Sometimes we forgive and forget because we think thats what God wants us to do and we shortcut the proccess. I think there are issues she has not settled yet with him and for all I know what hurts her she has accepted as the norm. This is where a constant use of MB tools would have nipped problems in the bud instead of burying them in an outright Plan A from both sides leaves you feeling the other doesn't care. I feel this is where they are. Its marriage at any cost and because they both believe divorce is not an option and the problems are unsurmoutable that God somehow wants them to suffer though thier marriage.

Also these issues might have compounded over the years. The core problems might be buried and in the process she is, (and he has), giving up and accepted a loveless marriage and it seems to me God is getting the blame for it. I am not sure of this of course that is why I haven't brought it up but its so common in people to do this. I have lived in it myself and wondered how much of it applied to thier sitch. If I ignore the fact I am human and frail and need to be loved and guided by God and point to all my good works to skirt the issue...

Oh Jeez, Hang me on the cross then and I will insult the savior who took away my shame as the perfect sacrifice. My sacrifice of my Godlike concepts are flawed from the beginning and no amount of good behavior will give me the right to judge anyones worth to God. I thank Him for that because I would make a lousy God. Ask him he will tell you..

John 2:24-25 (King James Version)

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.


So if we want to shut ourselves down and stop renewing our faith in God as the author of all good things thru the renewing of our mind which is flawed then sure, thats our right and Christ hung on the cross to protect our free will to choose Him. Our belief is supposed to set us free from fear. When we give the gift of ourselve to Him what good is a gift that is given grudgingly? Its not a gift at all but an attempt to apease God with anything but our heart. Oh yeah, don't ask that of me God. I will do anything but that. Gods not fooled but people are OK as long as you behave. He wants our heart, all of it. We all need to behave but thats not my point.

As long as we hide from the fact we are human with issues that hurt us and indirectly blame God for our problems we ourselves refuse to deal with we are robbing ourselves from reaching deeper into ourselves and healing. God wants our heart and what is important to us is important to him however small we think it is. " He is greater than our heart"

TTT I hope that you don't take what I have said here as an attack on your faith. Your stand as "divorce is not an option" is one I respect more than you know.

If H has faith is it in a God that wants to show him how much he loves him,(and you), or is he just afraid of a God who wants to hit him with a lightning bolt when he screws up? To me both coming from God is love.

I just think there are some scary issues that he can't get over somewhere inside himself. I don't know, I don't have the answers for him or you. I don't know how deep they are buried or even what they are. I do know they are not what God intended for either of you and the answers for you both are out there somewhere.

Think,

I hope you take a few days off and then change your mind and come back. You can't just give up.

Until then, I will be keeping you in my thoughts & sending you positive vibes.

TTT,

I have followed this thread in its entirety because it speaks to me. I sincerely appreciate what you are going through. You are very brave. I was not here when I should have been. Like you, I thought I shouldn't whine and complain because, while perhaps my needs weren't being met, who was I to expect them to be? My husband is handsome and hardworking. He doesn't gamble our money or cheat on me. So what if he occassionally yelled or did his own thing most of the time? So what if he avoided things that mattered to me and the kids? He worked hard, he needed his outlets. He is similar to my friends' husbands and my life is similar to that of my mom's and mother in laws.

I knew I was missing something but couldn't admit it...until I had an affair....problem solved....now when hubby came late, I had OM, when he watched TV and ignored the kids and I....I had OM, when I made dinner and he ate standing up or while talking on the phone....I had OM.

The fact that you are admiting to problems (albeit whining) and seeking solutions even if you see very little hope is amazing. You should be commended. After awhile, the whining will stop and you will find a solution which is the best one you can do. You will read everyone's opinions and carefully consider them and then you will decide. You will not "solve" your problems like I did, thus creating more.

Good luck and God Bless.

Think,

I think you and your H share a lot of the dark side in common...which is bonding and detrimental...that gray stuff you sometimes are okay with.

Neither of you are willing to see that humans do not do what they don't want to do.

It's true...God gave us the greatest respect in free will...so that true love could exist and flourish among humans. And this essence, that we truly do not do what we do not want to do, is part of that respect.

Your H goes to church. He can believe he does it as a sacrifice for you...he goes to church.

You can believe he wants your marriage MORE than not having the discomfort he feels at church...and it would be true. He wants and he goes. Doesn't mean he will tell himself the truth.

You want your marriage...you want to be in love with this man, free and clear of resentment...what you haven't mastered yet is not telling the end of the story at the beginning.

You're at the beginning of everything...every day. Alanon, MB, even parenting, partnering...seeing a new world every single day. Too overwhelming not to lie to yourself a little and tell yourself same ol', same ol'.

Wrenching yourself free from choosing your actions based on your guess of future outcome is really, really hard. And you love yourself enough to grab those tools to help get your hands off what isn't real...

MB and Alanon.

You don't have to show progress...you gotta know progress.

No one else here has to see it, 'k?

What you bring to MB is you...and you being here, sharing, being there for others ripples...in ways you cannot control or predict. Just does...helps others.

Self-ridicule may be another way you have harmed yourself through resentment...a very upside-down sort of way. Might be time to own you have a part called cruelty in you, called ridicule, and ask them where they come from in you...why they are in you, and to let them know they are no longer needed.

Your H is in his addictions...distractions. He has anxiety you cannot touch or change. He does act to meet your ENs in HIS way...and over time, he can change to meet them in the way you want them met...maybe in ways you didn't know were possible...

Don't know until you get there. I see MB as a way for all of us to be together while getting there.

I believe God will bring you exactly what you need when you need it most...and he brought you here to MB (you followed him, same thing).

For his purpose and his way...trust in Him. He loves you so much, and you know this and then you don't know it. He loves your marriage...he loves your H as much as he loves you. And he defers to your choices...and works with you, right where you are.

Outcome is only in his hands, ever. Not ours. Humans don't get to choose the outcome, just their results.

I believe if you saw another poster writing this thread, you would be compassionate, hear the vent and see the progress, celebrate who they are and be moved to tears, like me.

Because that's who you really are. A complex, multi-dimensional being created by the same hand...and looking to see who she is and what she does, and do differently.

Beginning is where you realize a lot...and you have...and then you strive first to understand, not solve.

You're not a riddle, a problem or an issue. You just have them, 'k?

I don't think you whine. I think you are practicing honesty...here is the perception I'm choosing; here are the thoughts I'm choosing; here is the perspective I'm choosing...right now.

And make different choices. Not based on possible outcome...based on who you really are and you're open to how you acting from love changes everything.

LA