I suppose like most waywards...he's an admiration junkie. His strength and patience likely can be extended by you finding ways to admire him for trying and making progress despite him still being foggy. You'll have to counterbalance criticsm with positive feedback. It's not that hard. Really it's YOUR PATIENCE that will be tested more than his if you can mind your LB's while he processes and understand fog clearing takes LOTS of time.

Have you already purchased his needs/her needs? I suggest getting in on a CD so you can take a roadtrip with your husband and listen to it together in the car. I've mentioned 20 or 30 times here why I think getting a man cornered in a car free from distraction and with a goal (driving to a specific destination) is a great way to talk about this MB stuff so I'm not going to go into all the reasons again. Just do it.

Mr. W

Folks...I have an appt to speak with Steve on Thursday....

broken,

Sorry I've been gone - I've been sick, and the Internet service here has been out on top of that. When you live in the sticks, stuff happens.

I love the progress that has been made! If you go back and read your own thread from the start up until today, you can see progress. You might feel like you are on a rollercoaster - and you are - but you will see that these hills are getting a bit easier on you. Your ability to handle the curves and swings are getting better. There is something to be said for what your H has been doing. While you feel like you are doing most of the work, you have to give him some credit for what he has done, too.

There are so many situations where the WS does absolutely NOTHING. And I do mean NOTHING.

Your H has exposed the A to the parents, he has gone to the counseling center, and he is here for help. Those steps are big steps, and they are tough. Look at those as his "work" - and try to see that as his attempt to build a foundation.

Your work is hard, also. I think it is harder, because you (and I know from experience) are coming from a point of complete devastation and weakness. What you need to focus on is regaining your strength, too. While this A hit you and took what you think of as your complete and inner soul from you, it may actually come to pass that you will find yourself rising out of this as a much stronger person than you ever thought possible.

How?

This recovery process - whether you stay with your WS or not - puts you in the position to look at your life in a light that you haven't done before. At this point, you will find yourself looking at things like:

How do I define myself? Am I defined by the relationship with my husband, my children, my family? Is the role of wife "ME"??? Am I only a person based on the role of "wife", or is there more to ME than the marriage?

And you will realize that somewhere in your life you placed your cards - your "self" - in the relationships with other people in your life.

You forgot how to focus on YOU - that is, you lost the definition of "who I am" separate and apart from others.

Somehow the affair points a finger on this - it puts a huge neon sign on this issue in the betrayed spouse's life.

(I think it also does on the wayward's as well - but I'm not addressing it here.)

So you will look at how YOU define YOU.

And in this process you will say, "I am NOT defined by this AFFAIR." You will also say to yourself something like, "There is more to me than the marriage, my husband, and what happens inside my home. I need to develop the 'other' sides of me, because somewhere I have lost those facets of myself that keep me interesting and lively, that keep me feeling life, happiness, and bountiful with energy."

You will find a new person - or more like, a newly recharged and re-energized and better YOU. Because the process you are going through will change how you see and understand yourself, your relationship, and in turn, your life.

As I have observed the recoveries (and the not-recovered, and those who have CHOSEN not to recover!), I have seen this process play out with the people who CHOOSE the Harley method.

Those who have not chosen the MB plan....don't seem to fare as well. Just my observations, since I "enlisted".
SB

I see what you are talking about. You know, my life has been defined in other ways, being military you don't have much of a choice. You always have to accomodate your spouse, because they don't have a choice in the matter. I am scared about finding myself and it not being with WH. I Love him, I love our children, but what if I decide that I don't love being married anymore? It's been a long time since I thought of just myself....and that is scary! I know that WH is trying very hard to make amends, and I have told him how proud I am of that. So many emotions, so many thoughts, so many directions to go.....it is tough....Thank you to everyone though for your encouragement, it is so important to me to have you all here.

You don't have to be afraid of the decisions you might make in the future. They will be the right decisions for you, because when you come to make them you will have taken the time to do it the right way. The fact that you are here, asking for help, reading, making appointments to talk to the experts, tells you that you are looking for guidance from people who have been in your shoes - and that tells you that you are not making snap decisions, or taking these things lightly.

You are taking your time, working things through slowly.

That is how GOOD decisions are made.


So do not be afraid of making a choice that is wrong.

And so what if this, if that, if....anything?


As you progress through the recovery from this event in your life

you will see someone coming through the dust at the other end of it all

someone strong enough to handle


whatever decision she makes for herself.


You will know that you made the right decision.


You will be fine.



You ARE fine, right now. Taking it day by day.


One day, one moment, at a time. You ARE doing this.


SB

Hey all! Well I talked to steve today. It was good. I see where he is going and what he wants to do. I still don't know if I agree that this was not intended....that it "just happened" or "he didn't protect himself from the emotional needs that he was getting". I see the affair as letting someone get in emotionally and acting on it...consiously knowing it will hurt the other person and not caring about that ( or not caring enough to stop it). I might still be in a bad stage to start this forgiving and recovery thing. I just don't know....I REALLY DON'T KNOW. My head and heart fight everyday....I love him, I hate him, I want him to hold me, I don't want him near me. UUUUGGGGHHHHH. Frustration.....

Normal. And you know what? He REALLY didn't think about its affect on you. Isn't that crazy? It's wayward-thought. My FWH didn't think it would hurt me! He didn't think it was "that big a thing."

I am sorry, broken. They are crazy - and they don't think. That is why we can never figure out the "why". There just isn't a rational why - except that their boundaries were bad, and they allowed it to happen. They say crazy things, and they do crazy things!

You have come to a good place, and are taking good steps.

Hugs to you!

broken,

The wayward thinking is completely screwed up.

It is clouded in a manner so that they can justify their own wrongdoing. I can kind of explain the thought process - not that it will help in the healing any, and no, it will NOT make the pain go away, but it might help you understand how the thinking gets so skewed and so messy that somewhere in there it makes some kind of "sense" to the person in the affair.

From the outside looking in, however, the behavior being observed makes no sense whatsoever, of course!

The phenomenon behind the psychological/cognitive process is called self-deception and self-betrayal. If you would like to read a good book on it, the best one to get a good understanding is "Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting out of the box" by The Arbinger Institute. This is written in a story-fashion, and does a terrific job of bringing the message home, and can make a great change in your own life. I really advise it for people who have had affairs, or for those with major family or marital problems.

Here's the concept:

Let's say you should do something for someone else. It is the right thing to do. The problem is, you really don't want to do it, you want to do something else. What you WANT to do is something for yourself - something selfish.

You have a decision to make. Do you do the right thing, and do the thing for the other person?

or

Do you go ahead and do the thing you want to do, for yourself, and be selfish instead?



It is at this critical moment that the choice to have an affair begins, and all the justifications and blaming of the spouse begins.

All of it.


Prior to this moment - the moment of self-betrayal - the person is operating on normal.

The moment the question is posed in the mind, such as "should I proceed?" or "how would my wife feel?", the point of possible self-betrayal is reached.

The first betrayal is really self-betrayal, because the issue is within the SELF.

The question is self-directed - "Do I do the right thing for the other person? Do I go against what I know to be correct and moral? Or do I betray my own values and do the selfish thing?"

If the choice is to go for the selfish thing, the self-betrayal has been completed.

Then, the betrayal of the other person begins.

The thoughts change to this:

"Well, my wife really hasn't been paying much attention to me."
"I really haven't been happy for months now."
"I have tried to talk to my wife, but she has NEVER been a good listener."
"I have worked hard in my marriage, and I don't see my wife doing much on her side. I deserve a better relationship. I deserve someone who understands me."
"What my wife doesn't know won't hurt her. If she finds out, I can just leave, she probably doesn't really want the marriage anyway, with the way she acts sometimes."

The other person becomes blameworthy in the process, the betrayed is somehow the bad guy, and the wayward is now not only justified in the affair, but entitled to it - because of the betrayed's behavior and lack of "understanding" or "meeting of needs", etc. Furthermore, the betrayed's behavior takes on the characterization of having been this way for a long period of time - when the reality is quite different.

This all began at the very moment of the self-betrayal - and not one moment before.



This is a careless change of thought. It is reckless, and in the case of affairs ----- you are living the results.


It can happen in many other circumstances, too. On the job it happens with other consequences. In family situations, other things result - look at how elderly parents are cared for, as one example.

While you are reading, read this book. Have deerhunter read it too. It will hit home, even though the book is written for the job place, it easily translates to a marriage.

SB

You know sb, He has never once said any of those things. He says that he has no idea why he did it, how he did it and how he kept doing it. He knew it was wrong...but I guess he didn't care. He says he never thought I treated him wrong, or badly, and that he was in his own little world and thought that I would never find out. He also thought that it would be okay to stay friends with this woman....???????? I still have no better understanding....he has looked (with the help of steve) and see's that this girl somehow met his emotional needs (friendship, caring)and of course eventually sexual.....I would be very easy for me to end this....I am used to him being gone for months at a time so the adjustment really wouldn't be hard. I feel crazy though, because I don't want to be without him.

He came home this weekend and when I saw him I didn't want to kill him so I guess that was good. I also didn't want to run into his arms either. I has been nice for him to hold me though. I guess nothing good comes without fighting for it. I am going to move to where he is and I am going to try. I don't know if I will ever be able to "forgive" the act but I am willing to try and move past it. We have done alot of talking....I don't know if it has all been good but.....I can't work on it 400 miles away. I am sure I will still post when I am at my witts end and when I am extremely happy....you all have helped so much in that. I will continue to let you all know our progress.

He won't "know why" he did it, not for a long time, if ever.

Neither will you.

In his mind, he had justifications - the one you stated was probably the major one - that you would never find out. So he went through with this affair because of the concept of "what she doesn't know cannot hurt her".


My husband actually said the very same thing.
It was his plan to take the secret of his affair to his grave. Nowhere in his plan was I ever to find out.

Only, his plan went crashing down when




I FOUND OUT.




This wiped out his little justification, then, didn't it?



And suddenly, all of this skewed thinking looked like everything it was: skewed, ridiculous, selfish, outlandish, outrageous, immoral, hurtful, and everything else you can name.

He could not explain himself. The process, however, is the same. The self-betrayal occurred, the "justification" in the mind (whatever reason the brain decides), and then the look toward the relationship for cracks which help blame the other.

In your case, the "blame" may be that you were not readily available to him (due to distance), and she was there to meet his ENs (and did).


I am very happy that you are moving to where he is. You can work on rebuilding. That gives him a chance to show his remorse, his love, his regret, and also a chance to make restitution and amends. The two of you will be able to spend time together to reestablish those bonds.

You CAN learn to love again.

I have been there. This is my third time going through this.

It is taking longer for me, this time. But I have seen my love returning, and each day it is stronger. I remember well my love at the start of my marriage, and I build on that when I am weaker.

I had a bad day Saturday. I have the unfortunate situation where OW lives and works where I have to look at her skanky self frequently enough that perhaps I need some sort of vaccine. I needed a booster shot Saturday, but was low on energy for my force field. She appeared, and I was contaminated.

My H helped me through it.

I let him do that. I wanted to do it on my own, but yet again, I learned that he is the best person to get me through.


Let your H get you through this. There is something for you to learn there.

SB

Why is it that the person who hurt us the most is the one we want comforting us? Strange....
I am having lots of ups and downs since I made a decision. We are making lots of plans for the move and I feel like I just want to throw up. I get fleeting thoughts of things all the time, and it is driving me crazy. I am glad that I decided to try and work on things, now I just wish I could get a handle on these thoughts that insist on poppin into my head. It is amazing what simple things may trigger my thoughts....sometimes it doesn't make any sense as to why I think of things. I am scared to death that I am making the wrong decision, am I strong enough for this. I feel beaten down at times. But, I snap out of it and move on. There is a long road ahead....I hope that I don't decide to turn off it half way thru....I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the support that you are all so willing to give.

(((((BROKEN)))))

Have you read Mark's thread about managing memories? I am sure there are some other threads about triggers and such.

This is a long journey but I am sure you'll get there.

I have not seen Mark's thread on managing memories, could you help me find it?

Sure give me a few minutes. It's in his siggy line so I just have to find a post by him. BRB.

Here you go.....

Mark's Managing Memories thread.

ty scotland!

Okay, so my weekend was pretty good. As long as I am busy and keeping occupied I have no problems. Give me some down time and my mind goes crazy! I read the managing memory thing and I am going to have to try really hard. This time of year is when this A all happened (a year ago) and I still can't believe that I am living through this. I never thought that my H would ever be capable of this....I asked him yesterday if he had any convictions that he held so dear...because to me this goes against all of mine. I have always been so passionate about people who have affairs and how much it disgusted me. Now I am living with it and don't know how to handle it. He is trying really hard....it just doesn't make up for what he has done. I love him so much but I am so afraid that I cannot move past this...no matter how hard I try. I guess only time will tell.....
you know, in the begining of all of this he told me he would always care for her and wonder how she is doing and always hope she is doing well....that repeats in my head all the time and I think that sucks....I wish he never told me that...I will never know when his mind trickles off to think of her...and that I can't stand. This roller coaster really sucks when it starts going up and down these hills....it make me nausiated! I know this is all still early but my god...when will it end!!

By the way all my MB Mom's....I hope you all had a very special day yesterday!! Happy Mothers Day....a day late