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I think you sound a bit like you're in denial about your ability to save the marriage.


Gerk said this:

Quote
I seriously doubt my wife will ever overcome her stubbornness and pride and be able to say, "Yeah, I did all of these terrible things, they were wrong, and I'm sorry." I think it's much more her style to simply run away.


Where do you see "denial about his ability to save the marriage" in that statement?


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I think he's merely questioning his WIFE'S ability to help recover. Which is reasonable.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Yup, it is reasonable, karmasrose.

Great post, Bob.

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Originally Posted by ConfuzedHusband
Gerka (and others saying it is our job to support [aka encourage / enable] his plan to save the marriage,

I couldn't disagree more. True friends, or true people committed to helping others, don't hold back on what's in their heart. I've read every post in this thread. I've also been in Gerka's shoes. I wanted badly to recover my M as well, at first.

So I vehemently disagree that we need to not speak our hearts and minds just to respect Gerka's "decision" if we don't agree with it.
Since it was I who voiced the opinion that we should support Gurka's wish to recover his marriage, let me clarify my position since I think I didn't express it well enough.

I think it's fine to disagree with his decision. But it is his decision and I think it should be respected. Voicing one's opinion that he should reconsider is not out of order. Castigating him and berating him for wanting to do so is.

There may be a fine line between opining and browbeating.

FWIW, I received many differing opinions about my own situation. There were some very strident voices urging me to pull the plug. Which is what I wound up doing.

MelodyLane perhaps, best typified the point I'm trying to make. She was one of those who echoed the "let her go" refrain to me. Yet she continued to offer me support and advice all through my process, and does so to this day.

Disagreeing does not mean being disagreeable.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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Enabling?

A facinating word. It has become an anethema and yet...

It is precisely what I aspire to do on this site. It is what I would be and am proud to say I have done in my life.

If I can enable someone to have the strength to do what they feel they need to do to preserve their marriage or attempt to preserve it, then I have done something I am proud of.

If I can enable someone to achieve something they did not think they could, then I am proud.

If I can enable someone to acheive what they know they can do, but just need a bit if help, then I am proud.

If I can enable someone to see or learn something they did not know, then I am proud.

So for you folks who think that RIF, myself and others on this thread are enabling Gerka to stand up and do what he thinks is right, I will admit guilt...proudly.

This whole site is about enabling people to learn, evaluate, attempt to address, improve, and deal with the problems that befall marriages and relationships.

Failure is always a possiblity, but without effort failure is guaranted. Gerka is going to succeed with or not his marriage fails because he is going to learn many things he would not learn if he just signed the papers and walked off.

I do think Gerka needs to be enabled.

JL

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Ok! Just remember that Marriage Builders is not "save every marriage at all costs". Even Dr. Harley recommends divorce typically with WW + short marriage + no kids + serial adultery situations. He has said himself that he would divorce his wife were there infidelity in his marriage.

So don't make the mistake of saying "this is a Marriage BUILDERS" site in order to imply that recommendations to divorce are not allowed.

To see where I'm coming from, if you're interested, read my thread.

I was counseled by some very wise posters to strongly consider divorce. At first I was horrified. Then I realized they were speaking from experience. Praise God I listened to them instead of myself.

Anyway, as much as it's not my thread... guess what....

It's not YOUR thread either!

It's about what's best for Gerka. I am giving him the advice I think is best, just as you all are.

None of us are Dr. Harley, so for "OFFICIAL" MB advice, Gerka knows he can contact the Harleys themselves. This forum is for our opinions to help others.

So is my advice right? We'll see. Just trying to save him some pain and make sure he's taking care of himself.

So, unless I hear from Gerka that he doesn't want to hear my opinion, I'm going to continue to give it. I suppose I have the same right to post and give my two cents within the framework of MB principles as anyone else.

Gerka, I'm rooting for you, my friend.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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TST, I'm surprised at your personal attacks. I wasn't upset with you, and sorry if I hurt your feelings by coming across as "ballzy".

Also, RIF, I actually wasn't talking about you - I respect your thoughts and opinions quite a bit! I think Gerka is really lucky to have another military officer to advise and support him through this.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Ok! Just remember that Marriage Builders is not "save every marriage at all costs". Even Dr. Harley recommends divorce typically with WW + short marriage + no kids + serial adultery situations. He has said himself that he would divorce his wife were there infidelity in his marriage.


Please don't mischaracterize his comments.

Dr. Harley and his wife employ all of the policies in the marriage builders program (POJA, radical honesty, meeting EN's ETC.) They strive to keep their marriage affair-proof. If, in spite of their efforts, there was an affair in their marriage, it would be beyond his ability to fix it -- that is why he has made that statement.

Gerka -- this is your call to make. And you will find support no matter what your decision is. And you will find detractors no matter what your decision is.

I just want to comment quickly on the email. The picture, and the comment about your hair the "way she likes it" are actually not love-bank deposits. They will be an irritation to her. So expect that.


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Gerka- Sorry you are here my friend, but you are getting some great advice. I don't know what took so long, but I just read through most of your thread here. What a busy two weeks you have had!

I am also a BS and my wife started her A while I was in Afghanistan last year. Unfortunately for me, I didn't know it was an affair until I came home. I wish I would have found this site while I was there.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I think you are doing a great job so far. Like Bob, I have recieved tons of helpful advice running the full spectrum of Plan A through immediate divorce. Your WW doesn't seem much different than mine or any other I've read about here. You know her better than anybody and if recovering your marriage is your goal, you are doing well.

I caution you to try not to let this consume you over there. I know I was a wreck at times and put myself and my Soldiers at risk due to the uncertainty of the situation. Don't let that happen to you. Every once and a while, mentally back up a second and look at the big picture. It will help you to keep things in perspective a bit. It also helps to re-read your whole thread from time to time to catch things you may have missed initially.

Since you are in Plan A, please remember NO EXPECTATIONS. She is still angry from exposure and will thrive on her anger to fuel her justification. Weather the storm and stay strong. Just keep trying to do the next 'right' thing.


-SOL
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Originally Posted by ConfuzedHusband
TST, I'm surprised at your personal attacks. I wasn't upset with you, and sorry if I hurt your feelings by coming across as "ballzy".

Also, RIF, I actually wasn't talking about you - I respect your thoughts and opinions quite a bit! I think Gerka is really lucky to have another military officer to advise and support him through this.

Confuzed, stop it RIGHT NOW. Gerka has already indicated his goal and we need to support that in MB fashion. If you cannot support him in this LEAVE THIS THREAD.

If the worst thing happens and his M doesn't make it? Come back around and console him, and let him know how you handled that. That's when your experience will be important. Right now you are a distraction. STOP. twoxfour And the other poster needs to take his anger elsewhere, as well. Gerka has already said this!


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Marital Bliss:

Again, if GERKA wants me to stop giving my two cents, I will! This is HIS thread, not YOURS.

I'm not posting anything out of line. I'm trying to help Gerka.

RIF (whom I respect, by the way) already tried to report another person, and the moderator said that nothing anybody wrote violated the TOS. My comments are not meant to divide or hurt, but to help Gerka in the best way I know how. I haven't posted a lot, but I've read a lot of threads with a lot of posters who are older and wiser than me.

It is a potential disservice to Gerka for you to attempt muzzle dissenting MB posters simply because you "don't agree" with their advice.

I'm GLAD you're giving him your advice. Why do you feel threatened by mine? Gerka's a smart man, he's an adult. He can handle alternate viewpoints!

So, once again, as it's Gerka's thread, I am leaving it up to him. If my advice is not helpful to him at this time, I will quietly lurk once more!

Praying for you, Gerka. Thanks for serving our country as well.


Last edited by ConfuzedHusband; 04/29/10 06:50 PM.

Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Gerka-Although I don't have a lot of advice to give you at this point, I will say that I have been following your thread. I am pulling for you. We ALL are. Just follow the advice given to you and do what is right for YOU. You will come out GREAT on the other end(no matter which way this ends up). You have some heavy hitters posting to you. Good work thus far.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted by ConfuzedHusband
Marital Bliss:

Again, if GERKA wants me to stop giving my two cents, I will! This is HIS thread, not YOURS.

Confuzed,
I believe that Gerka already asked HelpTheLostDads to stop posting the same sort of stuff you are posting. He understands that at some point, he will have to evaluate whether rebuilding the marriage is even possible. But for now, he has asked for help on ending the affair and trying to save the marraige. The time for your advice will come later, most likely when he is home from Afghanistan.


ex-WW had 2 PAs in first 2 years. Buh-bye.
Divorce finalized: 1/28/09
Now just living and loving again.
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Good Morning Gurka!

I see that you're getting lots of "help" here!

Hope your Friday is starting off well... Only 1/2 a day today so I'm looking forward to my "5-Hr Weekend".

Do they stll have the local Bazzars there on Fridays? AAFES has really cracked down on the Bazzars and all of the local vendors have to go through AAFES and pay a percentage of their sales in order to set up a shop here. Prices are about 50% higher here in Iraq than they were over there...

Anymore contact from your W's female friend? You received some good comments from that and I hope you've given this some thought in case she (w's friend) continues to contact you.

Drop in when you have a chance and let us know how you're doing!

Semper Fi,

RIF


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Yes, the moderators are STILL watching and reading.

As Breeze posted earlier--
"We have seen no violations of TOS that require editing yet. Feel free to email me if you have questions.

Let's ALL remember to keep our posts focused on helping this poster."

While dissenting opinions are NOT a violation of TOS, Gerka has expressed his desire for Marriage Builders help to SAVE his marriage.
PLEASE keep your posts to Gerka HELPFUL to this goal.


JustUss

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JustUss: Understood. I will bite my tongue and pray for the best. Back to lurking mode. I hope for the best, but can't see how this will end well. We'll see, and if I'm wrong, I will be happy for Gerka.

If I'm right, I won't say I told you so.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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I see a lot of DJs floating around on these last few posts and other than the fact that they are not directly helpful to Gerka's current sitch, they are helpful to learn how people use DJs not only with their spouses but to others as well. We can all learn and grow. We can become better people. Thanx DrH.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted by RIF
Good Morning Gurka!

I see that you're getting lots of "help" here!

Hope your Friday is starting off well... Only 1/2 a day today so I'm looking forward to my "5-Hr Weekend".

Do they stll have the local Bazzars there on Fridays? AAFES has really cracked down on the Bazzars and all of the local vendors have to go through AAFES and pay a percentage of their sales in order to set up a shop here. Prices are about 50% higher here in Iraq than they were over there...

Anymore contact from your W's female friend? You received some good comments from that and I hope you've given this some thought in case she (w's friend) continues to contact you.

Drop in when you have a chance and let us know how you're doing!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Yeah, still plenty of bazaars.

I'm doing ok, had to go to Eggers again today (not much of a day off.)

My commercial internet connection is still down, but I'm curious as to why Lexxy said the email would be an irritation, not a LB deposit. She specifically put on her EN questionnaire in the attractiveness section that she likes my hair when it's longer on the sides....

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I'm curious as to why Lexxy said the email would be an irritation, not a LB deposit


Hey Gurka - I suspect that Lexxy means that right now, ANY communications from you will be an irritation.

You're the one that's ending her A. In your W's mind, if you would have just left things alone, "everything" would be fine, and she and OM wouldn't be under investigation.

Your W might not appreciate the fact that you are letting your hair grow out "like she likes it" now, but hopefully, after she's been in NC with the OM, she will remember all of the things that you've done for her... even when she was deep in her A.

Love is a verb. You can say "I love you" all day long... Right now, she's not going to hear you words, but even if she does't admit it, she IS noticing your actions!

Semper Fi,

RIF

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I've just caught up here and I'm getting ready to go to work ....

I know that you guys understand these proceedings, I don't.
I'm curious, what is the reality of Gurka having to pay spousal support????

Gurka, it's like RIF explained above, she is still in wayward land right now, her love bank won't be open to deposits.
That doesn't mean that it won't be logged somewhere in her mind, it just may not
be acknowledged the way that you would like, at this moment.





M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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