BACKSTORY--

For several years DH and she have been friends. It's a small town. Her husband and she were good friends of my husband and I. In fact, I even knew DH had a minor crush on her and had teased him about it once upon a time.

I also knew that they emailed once every week or two. No big deal, really. Just chit chat about kids, and work, and the weather. Of course HER husband didn't know. Jealous, she'd told me once.
Now, I know her husband. He is probably (deservedly!) suspicious, but he's not particularly jealous. That's how this happened afterall... Neither of us was jealous. : (



But this last fall I noticed she now seemed to think the emailing was a secret from me, too. She would ask me about things that I *knew* she'd already talked to DH about. And I would already know about this because DH always told me.
It irritated me that she thought my spouse was keeping secrets just like she was, but the bigger issue was that he WAS being honest with me. So whether she was being sneaky or not, *he and I* were OK.

But sometime this winter she started complaining about her husband a lot. Around February or so she and my husband started chatting on the phone every few days, in addition to their regular emails. He quit telling me what all they'd talked about.
By March they were not only emailing and chatting, but texting as well.

On Easter I talked to my husband and asked him to research "Emotional Affairs."
He saw it.
He felt terrible and said that yeah, he was probably skating the line between friendship and affair, and that SHE was probably already over the line. He agreed to quit talking so much as it wasn't healthy for he and I.



Not only did they not cut back, it got worse. They were talking two or three times a day.
Last Sunday, in a conversation with her, I realized he'd also been complaining about me in their conversations. We made a promise to one another 15 years ago that we'd never complain about each other to other people, so that's the betrayal I nailed him with.

With further talking (yelling?) he came clean that yeah, he had crossed that invisible line, too. He told me loved her, but that me and our marriage (and kids) were so much more important, so he'd break it off entirely.
But he loved her, too.
It was like he'd kicked me in the stomach. I literally had the wind knocked out of me. : (

I tried to understand (am trying). He grieved when he broke it off with her and I tried (am trying) to be fair. I do understand, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

CURRENTLY:

So, we're working and we're talking and we're crying and we're talking some more. We're completely committed to each other.
We've explained to our 8 and 10 year old (who had noticed all of these tears of course) that sometimes best friends fight. But friends need to fight sometimes to get things worked out.

DH is courting me and being as completely transparent as he can possibly be. After the first few days, it's starting to get a little less raw. I know where to go from here and have faith we'll get through this.

So now we come to the part I'm really struggling with:

WHAT TO DO ABOUT HER??

Somewhere during all of the tears and talking, it came out that part of what drew him closer to her in the past six months or so was that she'd had an abortion last summer.

At 45, her story is that her husband pushed her to have an abortion. She loves kids and has actually been after DH and I for a number of years to have more, so I can almost believe that might be true. But at the same time, I have obvious trepidation about believing her completely. That is, I believe the abortion part is true. I question whether it was actually her husband's overbearing command that forced her do it, though.
This is devouring her soul. She's convinced she's going to Hell.

Knowing her as I do, she's a pretty needy person and knowing her husband also, I can easily imagine he's just thinking they should "move on." I genuinely believe that he probably DOESN'T listen to her as my husband did.

I'm hoping to heal she and I's relationship (maybe???). But, when DH "broke up" with her, she basically said they were just friends and she just couldn't see what the big deal is.

There's no way I can talk to her if she's still lying to herself... And I'm genuinely worried for her about how the abortion is tearing her apart...

My God what a mess. : (

You shouldn't even consider remaining friends with this woman. An EA is just as damaging as a PA. Many PA's start out as EA's and then progress from there. Your H needs to write a NC letter to this woman and then both of you need to establish NC with her for life. Right now, there is still contact, so technically, the A isn't even over and you and your H have not even begun recovery.

Does her H know about the EA? If not, he needs to be told. Exposure will help protect your M. The more people who know, the more people can keep an eye on both of them and put pressure on them to truly and completely end the A. Have you exposed to anyone?

Right now, you are simply setting yourself up for an A that will almost certainly continue. They will just take it underground. If you don't take some drastic measures now, you setting yourself up for a lot of hurt and betrayal in the future. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. My H had a long term EA with someone that was supposed to be our "friend" and it did eventually start to get physical. I suffered through this for 10 years, sharing my H and his love with the OW, all because I believed we could all get over these lingering feelings they had for one another and be friends. Yeah, right. It doesn't work like that.

Once the line has been crossed, there is no going back. This friendship simply cannot continue.

#1: Ask the moderators to move your thread to "Surviving an Affair." Because (1) if this all came to a head only last Sunday, and you're still in contact with their family, then it's too soon to say you're in recovery; and (2) more of interest to you, the "Surviving an Affair" board gets lots more traffic, hence, you'll get lots more advice. (Which your post reveals that you need.)

#2: Buy the book of the same title ("Surviving an Affair".) My wife & I were lucky that our marriage counselor put us onto it - it helped save our marriage, of that I'm positive. You & your husband should start reading it together, ASAP. If you do NOTHING else, do this!!!!!

#3: Forget about her & her state of mind. She is no friend to your marriage & thus no friend to you. Her abortion is none of your business -- your husband's first & only step should've been to refer her to a professional counselor on that one. Both you & your H need to quit worrying about her soul. (What, you think God needs your help to save her? Give God some credit, whydontcha? From what I read about Him, He's a pretty capable guy who doesn't need your help with her.)

#4: You both need to regard & treat this as seriously as a physical affair. Because the root causes are the same (your husband's poor boundaries), and the treatment is the same. It starts with ending contact with her irrevocably. Physical affairs proceed from emotional affairs. (Mine did. And once I'd have sworn to you that I'd never have an affair...)

#5: Read everything in the yellow box to the right on this site.

P.S. -- I've BEEN where you're husband is -- the bad, and the ugly. Ask me.
I tried to break it off back when it was still "only" an emotional affair.
You're better off than my wife & I were, b/c I kept it secret from her, so I had no accountability. At least your husband knows that you know, so that's something in your favor. But if you don't take measures to prevent contact with this family asap, then you'll remain in a very dangerous situation for your marriage.
Please listen to what I've told you. Ask me.

Moved at thread starter's request.

I was afraid of that...

Glove:
#1. Done.
#2. I'm at Amazon right now.
#3. I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say I was worried about her soul. I said the guilt of it is tearing her apart and I'm worried about *her*.
#4. Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. (and we have been treating it just as PA)
#5. Already did. I'd read this site for two days before realizing there was a bulletin board!

Glad to hear, PieceMaker.

When Amazon comes through, you & your hubby can get reading.
There's lots of good stuff in that book. The first part is about how affairs happen, the second part is full of stuff you can do to assess & protect your marriage & learn to meet each other's emotional needs to minimize the chances of him (or for that matter, you) venturing out onto this slippery slope again.

I've been chewing on this for the last hour or two (and had my husband read the two responses).
No, as far as I know, her husband does not know about the EA. We've kind of had the idea that that was her secret to tell...

And no, we haven't "exposed" to anyone. Whom would we expose to and why?
I'm not sure I would trust just anyone with this...

PS: Like I said, DH did break it off with her. I read his letter before he sent it.

I don't have time to find the link on the site that discusses exposure. Could someone else find it and post it?

Basically, exposure is a tool for the BS for ending an A, since A's thrive in an environment of secrecy and quite often die a swift death when brought out into the open.

As far as telling the OW's H. I advocate that because 1) He has a right to know that his wife has been cheating on him. You have information about his life that he doesn't have. She certainly should tell him herself, but that probably won't happen. 2) If her H knows, then that is one more person who will be aware of the situation and be able to make sure that NC stays in place.

Was the letter that your WH sent to the OW a NC letter? There are templates on the site for composing a NC letter. They are very straightforward and unemotional. NC means that both of you agree to have nothing at all do with this "friend" ever again.

Since your WH seems interested in the site and the MB principles, it would probably be best for him to start his own thread. The advice he will receive as a WS is very different from the advice you will receive as a BS.

I went back into my thread and I will post what others posted to me.


I am looking for more on others threads.

here's a newsletter by DrH

DrH on exposure

Scotland, thank you. You're helping more than PM right now!

PM, sorry you are here. The OW's H needs to know about the affair so he can protect himself from your H and his wife. This is information about his life that has been wrongfully withheld from him. He needs to fully understand WHY you can never see this couple again. His knowing will give him the same chance to recover his marriage as you. He can help keep the affairees accountable by watching from his end.

Your children need to be told of the affair, too. They should not be given false explanations about the tension in their home or told lies about why you cannot socialize with this couple. The OW is their mortal enemy and they have a right to know this.

Dr Harley does recommend exposure of the affair so that there will be more people to hold the affairees accountable.

The post Scotland posted is more related to an ongoing affair, that is not the case here.

sorry ML I will remove it. I didn't have a chance to read through it yet. My BAD.

That's what I get for watching a movie AND doing this. I will watch the movie instead HEHEHEHE

Thats ok!! You had no way of knowing. Good effort on your part, buddy!

Piecemakers,

OW's BH most likely has been dealing with tension, problems in his M ~ don't you think this poor man has a right to know the full extent of what was going on so that he has an opportunity to address the M and A just as you say you and your H have been?

How would you feel if you were in OW H's position and everyone else knew but you didn't?

ALSO ~ I don't think your H should necessarily be reading these posts because he may try to sway you from telling OW's H. (from my history of reading here 3 yrs, that is what he will most likely do)

In case it hasn't been emphasized enough, NC means NC ~ no seeing OW at soccer games, parties, the mall, etc and you two need to have a plan in place in case you do run into her anywhere. The plan should be that your H does not say ONE word to her, but leaves the place where she is and calls you ASAP. Waywards always try to have wiggle room when it comes to NC so please don't let your H tell you that it is OK if you two run into her or see her in passing. Even the two of them glancing at each other will trigger the addictive thoughts and behavior and set you guys back.

Have you two changed your phone numbers and emails? That is a MUST.

ETA: are either of you FB friends with her or her H?

Thoughts on how to talk to OW's H? (Keeping in mind, this is a friend of mine!)
OW said in the break up email that she's afraid of what he'll do if he finds out. I honestly don't know if that means he *genuinely* would do anything violent or if she's just afraid he would.
For the sake of argument, let's assume he *would* do something... How should we handle this?

Ironically, he's supposed to be at our house tomorrow to help brand our calves. And we're 90 miles from their house. Talking to him tomorrow would give him a chance to cool off before he got home.
Or, build steam.

However, there's also the problem of having 20-30 other people around...

PS: Yes, we were both friends of both of them on FB. DH has taken OW off his list (I have his passwords, so I know that's true). I haven't taken OW off mine yet and neither of us have removed OW's H.

PM,

1) OP's LIE about their spouses. Men say they have to do all housework/child care/ paid employment. Women tend to say their spouses are abusive.

2) who cares what he does. Its not your problem. If she really worried about her H, she wouldn't have taken up with a married man.
YOUR relationship with your H is important. her's is her own mess to deal with.

I assure you, I have thought of this. In fact, I lean strongly this direction. My DH, however, believes it to be true. Of course, he can probably be expected to...

To be fair, I highly doubt she intended to "take up with a married man" anymore than my DH intended to "take up with" a married woman.
I believe him when he says he honestly didn't mean for this to happen. I also believe her that she doesn't see what the big deal is. (And yes, I think she's lying to herself)

Nor can I escape the fact that if she should be hurt, it would be our fault for throwing the gas on the fire. I'm not saying her husband shouldn't know, I'm just asking if there's a safer way to go about telling him.

No. EXPOSE NOW!


There's no safe way. No "quiet" way.


You are protecting her from the consequences of her heinous and adulterous deed. I thought you WANTED to save your marriage. If you keep quiet you are only helping her and destroying your marriage!

She knew what she was doing and so did your husband. And you are doing nothing to stop it. Expose to her husband and you will have an ally in all of this! To be sure it never happens again!

Make sure NC occurs. You and your H should never see this friend again. EVER.

PM, my suggestion would be to NOT let that happen. I would call him in the morning and tell him about the affair. The call should come from you, and not your husband. It is not fair to him to have him come all the way out to your house being unaware that your H is having an affair with his wife. He would not likely want to come there if he knew and should RIGHTLY resent your allowing that to happen.

The right thing to do would be to call him tonight or in the morning so he can cancel this trip;