BACK STORY--
As mentioned in my first thread, fWH and I were good friends of his emotional affair partner and her husband.

DH called OW's H and explained what was going on. He confessed and apologized. As mentioned in my thread, OW's H didn't seem particularly upset.
Two days later DH found an email that was supposedly to the both of us in his mail box (and only his. I wasn't even copied). It was basically an apology that she'd gotten DH "in trouble" with me and a thank-you to me for not telling her H about all of this, that she appreciated DH's male POV, that she thinks I'm lucky we have such an "open and honest relationship" (!!) and finally a little guilt-trip about not skipping their daughter's grad. party because we were mad at her.
She had mailed it Saturday AM (he didn't find it 'til Tues), and DH called her H Sunday PM.

I wrote a reply with DH's agreement, that reminded her, curtly, that she was to have no contact with DH and he none with her.
(He had written a NC letter two weeks prior (and 12 days before I found this site, btw) that basically said that he wasn't sure how this spun so far out of control, but that he was breaching trust with me and that simply was not OK. And then said there would be no further contact.)

I also pointed out that that open and honest relationship DH and I have always had was built on the fact that we WERE open and honest. But keeping secrets, and being ASKED to keep secrets does not figure in to that very well!

I then BCCed it to her husband to make sure he was kept in the loop.

TODAY--

Her husband called mine this morning. Their daughter's grad. party was Saturday PM and he had missed us.

He basically expressed that he was feeling rejected and really didn't understand what the big deal is.

DH told him that for us it was basically a breach-of-trust issue. Between email and phoning, he and the OW were talking two or three times a day. He didn't actively HIDE that fact from me, but he sure didn't volunteer it, either. Ie, a lie-of-omission. (He didn't say anything about loving the OW because he's afraid that would be too easy to write him off as carrying some kind of unreciprocated torch.)

He also pointed out that the subject of the conversations is part of what was wrong; complaining about spouses, things that were discussed that supposedly couldn't be discussed with spouses, special secrets just between the two of them and so on.

OW's H said sometimes people just need to vent. He vents to a (male) buddy of his sometimes. DH pointed out that that's part of it; his buddy is male. He also told OW's H to do some research on emotional affairs, and then to call me to get my take on what was going on.

But he genuinely doesn't get it!

DH is coming out of the Wayward Fog (he doesn't even remember being absolutely convinced (a mere week ago) that OW was a battered wife and terrified of her husband. "No, I just thought that he might get angry sometimes..." Sorry, Love. That is NOT what you told me). So he is gaining some good, honest perspective. But at the same time, he's having a hard time trying to explain to OW's H what was truly going on, when OW is still lying to herself and everyone else around her.

Apparently he told DH he'd call me in a day or two.



So my question:
What on earth do I do with this??

He "is" having a hard time explaining to OW's H? "Is" as in, present tense?

Who made it your H's job to explain this?

All your H needed to do was call the guy & apologize. Then: Done, end of contact. If OW's H doesn't get why you're upset, or why your H is apologizing to him, that's not you & your H's problem to solve.

After what has gone on, you simply need to disengage from this other family. (As has been advised already.) Unless getting a drama fix is a higher priority than shoring up your marriage.

BTW, I'm not trying to fix their marriage or anything.
It's just that they both (OW and her H) seem to think we're all supposed to go back to "the way things used to be."

She's still delusional, and he just genuinely doesn't get it...

If this man doesn't care that his wife is ignoring him for another man - maybe he doesn't care all that much for her anyway, or maybe he's got the same kind of thing going on somewhere himself.

Ask him if he thinks there is no difference between males and females.

Ask him if he thinks it was okay that your husband was ignoring you for HIS wife.

Ask him if he knows what "dating" is.

Or maybe he's just a doormat who is afraid of his wife. Really need more info here.

"Is" as in he called DH three hours ago, asking.

So far as "drama fix" I think you're completely missing my question...

It's best to stick to one thread. I think this was already addressed in the first thread. You guys are way too enmeshed with this couple.

You need to forget these people exist and focus on your own R. Unfortunately by allowing her to "expose" herself, she twisted everything up so that her H thinks you are making a big deal out of nothing. There is not too much more you can do above what you have already done.

Repeat ~ you guys need to:
Change your phone numbers, emails, block FB accounts etc.

If you don't, they are just going to keep contacting you.

Yes. I should have said what SusieQ said - just get these people out of your lives. Apparently neither one of them understands or respects anyone else's marriage. They've done you enough damage and you don't need any more. It's not your job to explain things to them that they don't want to understand anyway.

Of course we are.
We've been good friends for six years!

And I can't help but feel badly for OW's H because he's truly floundering, trying to figure things out.
He feels abandoned and someone needs to explain to him why.

IMO, you are to continue being thankful that the EA ended as cleanly as it did, didn't progress further, and wish OW & her H good luck. Ask them to respect your decision to end your relationship with them. Then cut them off and have NOTHING further to do with them. Do not respond to emails. Do not return phone calls. Block their number.

PieceMakers, some BS's have a weird attraction for this type of situation. OWH sounds like one of them. Or he's totally clueless and has no clear sense of protection for his own M. Either way, you are better off shed of both of them.

Sorry, PM... yes, I guess I am missing it.

What I didn't miss was that your hubs suggested that OW's H call you; and I'm concerned for you that all of this back-&-forth increases the chances that H & OW will be in contact again, even if by accident. For your H to speak with OW's H once was a decent, honorable thing to do. But it is done. Thanks to your H's shoddy boundaries, your friendship with this couple has turned out to have been a toxic one for your marriage, and it is time to end it. That's a sad prospect, but not as sad as the prospect of reigniting the EA.

Change your phone numbers. Change your e-mails. (These things are examples of what Dr. Harley calls extraordinary precautions." And they may be in fact extraordinary. Not ordinary, not necessarily convenient. But perhaps crucial for your marriage.) Ask your H to do these things ... in this way, you give him an opportunity to show his sincerity about wanting to ensure that this never happens again. If he's smart, he'll jump at the chance.

email has been blocked for a week. If she sends anything, it just disappears into oblivion. No signal to her that it's not being received (or anything to let DH know something was sent).
Just disappears. Her cell number has already been blocked. We'll take care of his after a few days, in case he tries to call. (Afterall, it was DH's suggestion that he should do so. )

I think he's plain, old clueless. The same thing I said after DH called him and he wasn't particularly upset.

No sex = no affair

But that doesn't mean I can't feel compassion for him. He didn't create this mess. She and my husband did. He was, and is, being played for a fool. How sad that my spouse is being honest with him before his own...
And not only is his wife still playing him for a fool, but he has to lose some of his dearest friends in the collateral damage.
Eventually, I'm sure, he'll come to realize too that this is really the only outcome, but that doesn't mean I don't (or shouldn't! ) feel great sorrow now.

Okay, that's good of you. But you can't control their outcome, only your own. So wish them well, and close that chapter of your life.

The problem is right here. The OWH has been lied to. You need to call him up and tell him your H is IN LOVE with his wife and this is an emotional affair. He is not getting it becuase the AFFAIREES are lying to him. REAL EASY to resolve with a quick phone call.

No, I'm afraid I have to agree with DH on this one.

Much better just to tell the facts and let OW's H draw his own conclusions. (Or lack of... )
Otherwise, it's too easy for OW to say that "he might love ME, but I sure didn't reciprocate. He misread me. He's made a mess of his marriage and is now trying to say that ours should be also..."
Etc, etc.
Facts can't be argued. Mulitple phone calls a day are on the bill. Lies within emails can be forwarded, etc. Unspoken feelings, on the other hand, are entirely too hazy. Especially in an affair that never went physical.

DH did tell him it went much farther than it ever should've and to research emotional affairs, because that's what it was.

And so much for following MB advice...

ML wrote

He is not getting it

Speaking of which ask him if he saw an abrupt change in his wifes sexual habits, no kissing, seemed disconnected that sort of thing.

Gamma

The way that was most effective for me to explain my wife's emotional affair to people who don't "get it" is to say:

"My spouse is having an affair with OM/OW. It has not yet become sexual."

That goes a long way to explaining it in terms that the "no sex == no affair" crowd can understand.

Um, we ARE following MB advice.

We just disagree with ML's advice.
The affair has already been exposed. My husband has already confessed and apologized to hers. He called it an "emotional affair." (which is what it was)
Love was never spoken of between the two of them (weird boundaries that were actually still in place) so it doesn't make any sense to bring it up now. It's too easy to discount because they'd never discussed it.

Thanks Gamma.
If and when he calls, that will be on my checklist of questions. And to point out that there are text-book signs of affairs, these were some I noted:___.
And this is how it needs to be handled:_____, so it's what DH and I going to have to do.

DNM,
I'm going to point out that there is a pretty clear path that they were on. And that I have no doubt if I hadn't shoved DH off the path that it would have ended up as a sexual affair. It was just a matter of time...

All I wanted to add is that ML KNOWS HER STUFF. She is EXTREMELY knowledgable in this area...you should heed her advice, but of course the final decision is up to you, Piecemakers.

It is great that your H is involved in reading posting here with you, but just remember he is still foggy and there are certain things with respect to R that you need to be driving the bus on (not him!) ~ such as EPs and exposure.

It sounds like you have made up your mind ~ but I want to go on record for saying I think you are making a critical error in not changing your email and phone. Also you haven't responded to the FB question as to blocking OW and her H so that their stuff ends up on your newsfeed so that leads me to believe you aren't doing that either.

I really hope you don't end up like others who didn't adopt proper EPs and end up with the A reigniting or with a WS who just can't seem to fall back in love with the BS...OR just can't seem to get over their love for OP....

Read this by tst (an exemplary FWS in a successfully recovered marriage): Extraordinary Precautions

Good luck.