Me too. I genuinely enjoy verbal sparring in those relationships, because it helps me to know myself better, and also helps me to understand them better. And that is intimacy, and THAT is what I live for!

Yes, you can be friends with athiests, but NOT your own husband. It is really sad.

You feel (inside and outside) like you are too holy for your own husband. OR...you think he is too worldly for you.

This is why you cannot communicate with him. This is why you feel you are not compatable. This is just my opinion and it could be wrong.

Ya know, I was actually feeling REALLY good about the progress both me and my husband have made in just one month's time. I've been happy, content, and have nearly eliminated so much of my own irritability and unreasonableness. Not perfect, but pretty darn good.

On top of that, my husband has noticed and commented on the marked differences he's seen in me over this time. So it's not as if the changes are going unnoticed. He says he feels "in love" and I can only take him at his word, because anything less would be a DJ. So that seems like progress too. Because HE is no longer having angry outbursts. He does still DJ, and he does still have some annoying habits which I'm honest about, and of course the IB. But the anger is what bothers me the most, and just by enforcing my boundaries, that problem has cleared up for me.

Our communication has improved drastically because I have asked him to help me, to point out when I'm being judgemental, or to give me a heads up when I start to get angry.

I'm still feeling really good about where I'm at. It's not ideal, but I am grateful for what I DO have. I have friends who are married to active drinkers who show no sign of stopping. Little hope of adequately having their EN met by their lifetime partner. Yet these women are living happy, fulfilled and content lives, being a stabilizing force in their children's lives, contributing in meaningful ways to society. Their life and happiness does not depend on the state of their marriage, so they do not have to abandon it, nor do they have to spin their wheels trying to change someone who won't be changed. They do their part. Sometimes, miraculously, their spouses find sobriety. Sometimes, they don't. These women take responsibility for their own happiness as the accept life on life's terms. I think that is a beautiful thing to strive for, and it is what I strive for.

My happiness is not dependant on having a MB marriage. But I am here because I want to learn about the tools of MB, to understand how I can be a better spouse regardless of what my husband's actions are, regardless of what I "feel like" doing. I don't see how that is a bad thing?

I'm also here because I like conversation, and I very much enjoy the "arguing" we do. I don't argue to win, I argue to learn, and I really appreciate everything I have learned from each of the other members of this forum, regardless of whether or not we see eye to eye all the time. If we did, we'd just be preaching to the choir and none of us would learn anything.

And I'm here because I am very grateful to be able to give insight to folks like EHG, or to have conversations with newcomers to MB who are struggling with the same issues I am. I can't tell you how amazing it is to give some of these folks hope, or just one or two things to think about even if they don't stick around. I know how much a well-place 2x4 has helped me, even if I've never shared the results of it with anyone.

Thinkin, what an awesome update, thanks for sharing!

You gave me a new image of 2x4, I always thought of it as someone swinging a 2x4, and didn't like the image. Reading your post, in this context, I can look at a 2x4 as someone bringing a piece of wood not as a bludgeon to threaten or harm with, but as a building material, usually along with a suggestion of where you could put the 2x4 to strengthen the foundation, or even as something decorative

I wanted to add, I think that's a beautiful thing to strive for, too. I think your choice today gives you and your kids stability as you work your 12 steps and beyond. I think the clarity that step 4 brings, where you learn who you are and what you believe in, a journey you're already thinking through, but will further get clarity also seeing it on paper, and step 5, sharing it with God, yourself, and another person, will also help you share your O&H with your H. I think this brings that intimacy to reality, being able to share all this together, with acceptance and love replacing the judgment and emotional distance.

People around here sure are willing to tell you where you can put it sometimes...

Well, I have at least moved from step 1

My sponsor says that it is at step 9 that the real change and clarity happens, about halfway though. We were just talking about it last night.

ROFL!

That makes sense, taking what you're learning forward into your life, another action step. For me it wasn't just a one point in time thing, but instead finding something that was already there, getting my own attention, developing trust in myself and my connection with God as I understood Him again.

Think, I am so happy to hear about the progress you & your H have made !

I think you're on the right tract, think (that sounded weird). It's a process. One thing I like about MB is that it is built on principles/policies, not "particulars." In other words, we should all have UA, but my UA might not look like yours. There are ten basic emotional needs, but it is perfectly acceptable that we don't all have the same top five. It works for extroverts and introverts. It works for people married 6 months and people married 40 years.

In faith, there is something that can be attractive yet very dangerous. It's called legalism. Where a church, for example, jumps from believing the Bible to dictating the music people listen to, whether teenagers should go to the prom, how long the skirts should be, etc. Legalism can kill faith, kill a church, and make the people who fall prey to it generally obnoxious, tactless, and tunnel-visioned, thinking their estimation is always the right one. But this can happen with anything - education, child-rearing, and yes, even MB.

You are applying MB principles to your M, think, and it seems to be working. You are not perfect because you are in fact a human being. But your M is never going to look exactly like mine, because you are not Me and Mr. Luri. And because legalism is not my bag....I applaud you for that.

My mom always said that when someone tells us what they think, we should consider the source, consider the truth, and cast aside the rest. That's what I try to do. I have found it really helps my blood pressure

Sorted, I just bring up the first commandment because we should always examine what our idols are. I suspect most of us break the 1st commandment on a daily basis in ways that we aren't even aware of. Ways that are very easy to justify because by the purely legalistic perspective, they are acceptible, justifiable even. And we can say to ourselves (I know, because I've done it) THIS is OK because . . .

If I have to say that, it's usually a justification, and probably me protecting one of my idols.

This is what was meant by that verse in Revelation "You have lost your first love." Human beings have a tendancy to focus so much on "doing" right than "being" right. In the garden of eden, and indeed, in much of genesis even after "the fall" there was no need for "ten commandments" because the characters literally walked and talked with God. They had a personal relationship. Only after they became restless and wandering in the desert did they get "rules" and only then because they wanted rules.

I've said before, the devil is a lawyer

OK, I'm probably talking too much religion for Chris now LOL

BTW, Chris, I do think there is a difference between changing for children and changing for marriage.

In the case of children, I didn't change so much for them as they change me, fundamentally. My entire identity changed. My body change, my hormones changed, the way my brain works changed. It was not a choice, either. Completely out of my control. Having children neccesarily requires sacrifice.

Marriage is different because it is not a sacrifice, but a choice, a partnership. I didn't change physically or emotionally the day I got married. I didn't wake up feeling like a different person. My body was the same. I was wearing a new piece of jewelry, but I was still me. The changes that I have made for marriage were not thrust upon me; I chose them. I can say that some of them were not willing choices, but that's not entirely true. What is true is that I may not have realized I had other choices besides sacrifice. Now I do, and it has made a huge difference for me.

I changed for my children because the changes happened TO me. I change for my marriage because I choose to.

With regard to all of my various activities, I have made the choice the end or curtail my involvement in part because I had to for the children, and in part because I chose to for marriage.

A perfect example is horseback riding. I absolutely love riding. It was my passion as a young girl, and also as a 20-something. But after I got pregnant I had to stop. And after the first child was born I chose to not pick it back up again WILLINGLY for my marriage because of the expense and the time. I do miss it. But it was a part of my single life that I was and still am willing to let go of because having that in my life right now would be detrimental to my parenting as well as my marriage. I hope one day I'll be able to do it again, when it will no longer be a detriment to my family.

The same goes with my cutbacks at church. I have chose activities which are in line with where I am as a wife and mother and are not detrimental or majorly time-consuming.

Lol I wasn't pointing any fingers TTT . I was just sayin.. Accually I liked what you said. ITA . BTW i am really happy that you feel better and things have improved

Think,

The wind from your backpeddaling is messing up my new hairdo.

I changed my church stuff 80% for my kids, 20% for my marriage. Of course, that was YEARS before MB. I suppose if I'd had marriage builders back then my primary motivation might have been different.

Yes, even 6 months ago my "changes" were done mostly for my kids and me. The fact that those changes might also benefit the marriage was gravy.

I don't see a problem with that but that would be relating to my situation. In my case I felt responsible for the innocent children AFTER exhausting all avenues of communication which would improve the marriage and domestic stability with my wife.

I had to choose the lesser of two evils. Kick my wife out of my and the childrens life and cause them major pain and confusion or allow myself to be treated like a fool while taking the blame for every problem we had as a family.

Choice 1 was too complicated for the children to deal with emotionally and choice 2 meant I would suffer and eventually the children would see for themselves as they got older.

I decided to take it for the kids and encourage wife to get counselling and hope she would recognize the need as she hit rock bottom.

But that my stuff TTT. I was just being understanding about protecting the innocent ones who depend on us, our children.

Was Thinking of you TTT today. We have both talked about how we were not completly sure of our spouses when we got married. I don't want to put words in your mouth or misrepresent so I will leave it at that. I DO belive we were willing to work on the marriage and had expectations we would sacrifice for, along with a love for who we saw our spouses could and hopefully become.

Beyond that we are different people from different backgrounds with different issues we were/are dealing with.

What I thought about today was maybe something you already think about or considered and i missed it somewhere. Your a sharp one so I wouldn't be surprised. I guess it can be phrased in a question and I will just address it to myself.

What part of my faith in God and the promise of what a marrige should be did I rebel against when I married? More importantly why did I not trust Him when things went wrong and the marriage had problems?

I could have at any time strengthened boudaries and insisted that she seek counsel and hit the road. As it stands that was my attitude and she was doing so much better for the years when the children were young.

So because I allowed myself to be a caretaker and accept those excuses in her life, beliving I was strong enough in God to pull us all out of it, I became affected strongly, and I let it wear me down. Should I be surprised? No, God warned me about that didn't he? Who was I to be Christ for someone so connected to my soul?

Reguardless of how separate we think we can stay from who we commit and marry, they have a profound effect on us.

So now I can return to God and listen to Him, have my expectations from Him, and learn even more about how deep his love is for us. I truly am thankful for the chanceto love someone with everything I possess, to go all in even when it was just good intentions.


I take comfort in this quote from the bible, I don't have the exact words but here is the spirit of it.

"Man looks upon the outward man, but God looks upon the heart"

Because of His true love for us, its no wonder he waits for us to come to him. His lessons are tough, but we can trust in them.


BTW I really enjoy your posts on this site. Glad you are here. Would really miss you if you left.