Thank you, Gem. This is how I feel. I do what he says makes him happy, yet our life is too much for him. He told me that last night. How do I fix that? We have 4 kids - he signed on for that. He has a stressful career - he signed on for that.

G- glad you're calling the radio show tomorrow. I am sure they will be able to help.

Him going to see his friends is not a MB EN. It may be something he wants to do, but it is dangerous and hurtful to your marriage. A MB EN is something that build love between two people. This is not a need and you are not obligated to meet it and further the erosion of your marriage.

Regarding your children. At least subconsciously, I believe he feels differently towards those that aren't biologically his. You mentioned him lashing out at your older son and constantly referring to him as 'your kid' in anger. The Harleys talked about this recently on the radio show. Talking about your children in this way "your kid did xxx" or "your kid is yyy" is reflective of division in marriage. When he is upset and angry, he doesn't feel that they are his children, which is bothersome.

I stand by what I said earlier. Your husband is foggy and entitled. He doesn't care about this marriage and will not work on it because he knows he really doesn't have to. You'll put up with it. I'm eager to hear the advice you get tomorrow.

Your husband possibly did not know what a life would be like with 4 kids, he did not think it thru very much. But you knew it would be complex and expensive. Did you not tell him what you knew?

1 kid= 250K till age 17
2 kids= 500K
3 kids= 750K
4 kids= ONE MILLION DOLLARS TO RAISE TO AGE 17.

This is just financially, you know the other problems of having to find a babysitter just to get some time alone, you are not free to go have any fun with him. He is not free to be away from the kids either. I think both of you need a long vacation in a warm climate like Palm Springs. Without the kids.

I guess there would be a way you could find childcare for a week or so so you could save your marriage, get back to the fun of marriage, lose all the stress, and get back to some romance.

Do it right when he gets out of school for the summer, see if you can resurrect your marriage.

To me, your husband does not sound like "a happy family man" even though he wanted two kids of his own. He did not realize a family man has to give up, drinking out with buddies, flirting with other women, all vacations without kids, romance without kids around, life without kids around, eating dinner without kids talking yelling or screaming, being in total quiet in the home, one million dollars for raising the kids, any chance at retiring early, no spur of the moment trips, no way to get away with out the kids unless you have expensive child care, etc ,etc.

With your two kids some of these things would have been possible but with 4 it is harder, not impossible.

Had you known what this man is like, would you have had the last two kids for him?

So last night H asks if we can talk about things.

What I deduce from the entire conversation is : I want to see my friends, you won't let me and I don't like you very much right now.

I was calm, tried very hard to recognize if I was making a LB and rephrasing. Asked for clarification, repeated what he said back to him, to be sure I was hearing what he was saying.

He says it is "not a good feeling" to have me checking up on him, because he "absolutely" has nothing to hide. I can look all day, every day and I will not find a thing. That he has done nothing wrong and has worked really hard to earn my trust back. When I asked him to clarify that, he said that because he has not had another affair, doesn't engage is personal communications with women, that he should be trusted. So, in his mind the fact he has not cheated means he has done his job to prove to me he is trustworthy. There is a complete separation from his actions, the things he DOES do that are huge LB to me, and to protecting the M. He does not see how wanting to go see his friends and drink beer and hang out, or go camping, or whatnot has anything to do with infidelity or trust. He says he won't cheat, why is that not enough for me. When I asked him why he did not tell me about OW physically being at his school, he said he did not see what the big deal was - he was not going to be a part of it. Sometimes they will be in the same building, it does not mean they will see each other, so what? He feels that he has moved mountains to stay clear of her.

The only way he wants/needs to relieve stress is by leaving to camp with his friend, away from everything. Just 2 days. What is the big deal.

I asked him if he felt he has been putting in care for our M. He said "absolutely, I work very hard at it". I asked to give me some examples and he said "well why don't you ask X, her husband works WAY more than I do - I don't hear her complaining. You know Y? He works EVERY Sunday. I work a LOT LESS than I really should in order to do my job to the best of my ability. I work LESS for YOU. It could be way worse, I could be like Z, who puts in 123 hours, nights, weekends. You are just lucky it is not like that.

So there you have it, folks. I am super lucky that my husband is not currently cheating and working less than other principals he knows in the district and their wives are happy as pie. So, why aren't I?

Oh, and he will NOT accept not seeing his friends, and I cannot make him, no matter how hard I try. I have not MADE him do anything. He does not see anything as choices he has made. If I am not happy about a choice he has made, I am KEEPING him and REFUSING him from doing what he really wants to do. How is that for a whole lotta DJs?

When I told Joyce today that my H was a principal, she was very surprised. She said that is not the type of behavior one thinks of principals to have. Yeah, neither did I until I married one.

No.

That sounds so lovely! We have not been anywhere tropical in 5 years! We were planning on warm and sunny in August and we canceled because we could not arrange child care. My mom works again (she was laid off for a year and recently got a job, otherwise should would have), my dad is not that involved and my inlaws are not speaking to us. Raegan keeps asking if Grandma S is dead. Ouch. I am an only child, so no aunts or uncles. I DO believe, however, that my ex H certainly owes us some free time, being he only has the older 2 kids 4 days a month because he travels extensively for his job. About 60-70% of the time he is supposed to take them, it gets canceled for a work trip. Not to mention I raised them on my own for two solid years while he reenlisted in the military and was gone overseas. My younger 2 adore my ex H, and he did say that he would take them overnight once of twice over the summer to allow my H to have some alone time.

H has 3 weeks off this summer, so I hope to... improve our M.

There are so many things going on, that I am not sure I even did a good job giving Joyce and Bill the issues. I feel like a skated over a bunch. I wonder what they will ask!

I just saw this from TTT on one of Marko's posts and it resonates me with. This is something I certainly need to work on to clean up my side of the street. In fact, I think this is my biggest issue within myself and really keeping me from achieving what I need to do - set boundaries and grab back some freaking self-respect.

I think the matra around here is Sacrifice=Resentment. And we use that as a justification to NEVER EVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SACRIFICE. Which would be great if we lived in a perfect world, which we don't, or if we were perfect people, which we aren't. This month my husband has to work really late most nights. This is beyond our control. Of course he could quite his job. Or he could have a plan to get a new job. But neither of those things does anything to address the fact that TODAY I am required to sacrifice.

Resentment could very well be the natural consequence of this. However, resentment is also a choice that I make myself. I can sit here and justify my feelings of resentment because after all, I am a victim, I am having to sacrifice. Or, I can have a different attitude of acceptance. I can accept that this is something neither of us can change or fix. It just is. And I'm not the only one sacrificing; he is too. Life isn't about being happy all the time. It isn't about being in love all the time either. I can accept that this too shall pass, and that better days are ahead as long as I focus on my own happiness and contentment here and now. My choosing to justify my own irritablility does my marriage no favors. Does me no favors either. I can choose a different attitude, even if I have to sacrifice.

Hi I really care about you. I hope you can tell! Plus our climate is so miserable with constant rain that I want to go to Palm Springs also!

Your husband reminds me of a pastor of a big church who spends a lot of time an energy tending his "flock", counseling with them, etc yet he neglects his own family at home.

I would start looking at your expectations of marriage and family. Then look at his expectations of marriage and family.

What did you think/hope it would be like with him and two more kids?

What did he think/hope (you could ask him this) it would be like day to day week to week with a wife and 4 kids?

Look at expectations in the EN areas like Conversation, Intimacy, Recreation, etc

See what is different about your expectations of family life and what is different in the way he sees it and thought it would be like.

Write down the ways each of you is dissapointed in the way it turned out, in other words, where your expectations were not met and reality was very different.

Expected THIS__________________

The reality is THIS_______________

He expected this_________________
She expected this_________________

The reality is this_____________________

The dissapointment she has is this______________
The dissapointment he has is this__________________________


After hashing all this out, then you two can come up with solutions hopefully!

The solutions he and she find together....are this__________________!!!!!

So, I am reading through Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders and wow, some eye openers in there.

I guess I am a Renter. I believe I was a Buyer, but eventually became a Renter. Not good. I was a Renter in my previous M. I do not feel Freeloader or Renter describe my H, but maybe a combination of the two.

This struck a chord about Intelligence and compatibility. My H has a high level of Intelligence, skated through school, full-ride scholarship to college and his Masters. All As, all the time. He acts like a B is sub-par. Then I read something that hit me: the person with the higher IQ in the relationship tends to disrespect the judgments of the less educated one and that it is a relationship killer. I can say I have felt like that more than a few times. When we were dating, I often felt "less than" because I never finished college and he finished 6 years (and still has ongoing education for his position) at the top of his class.

His mom enforced this feeling by making my H and I feel that he "lowered" himself to be with "someone like" me, uneducated, divorced and 2 kids. I spent a lot of time during our dating feeling put-down by the life choices I made before I met him.

I knew there was a "bargain" somewhere in there! And "inequality" of sorts. That is the root of the disrespect possibly.

I have to tell you I have a college degree and my husband barely graduated high school. However I totally respect him and he has street smarts. So this does not need to create a power imbalance but if it is creating this then you guys can work it out because awareness is the first step toward healing.

Awesome, Stella! LOVE this idea! Thank you SO much! I cannot even DJ here because I honestly have NO idea what his answers will be (which is scary? lol).

So... any ideas how to bring all of this up (as in doing worksheets and whatnot)? Next week, H has already dubbed "week from hell". Last night he asked me to lay off the fix-it stuff, he is too stressed and does not have the time to put into it the way it needs to be. Then, I believe he will be leaving for the weekend (not this, but the next). Right now, I kind of want him to go.

Last night I went out to sleep on the couch because I simply could not fall asleep after our talk, and he started to snore. I usually head to the couch when I am mad, in a total passive aggressive way in hopes he will come out and talk to me or show me affection (lame, I know). Last night I had no desire for him to follow me (and I knew he wouldn't) and it was the only way I could get some sleep. I really do not want to be around him right now, so his crazy work schedule and wanting to leave for a weekend is no longer bugging me. I am tired of the push/pull/effort/stand stills, kwim?

Thank you, Stella. YES, I can feel you care. I care, too.

ETA: LMAO at saying I am smart and then having a run on sentence.

I am smart, above average and do well with whatever I apply myself to. The man I dated before my H was (is) wealthy and graduated with honors from Columbia University and always commented that you would never know I did not graduate at least 4 years of college and that he felt we were matched well intellectually (but WOW was he a math whiz - I am terrible lol). He tended to put me down in other areas, much like my H did during dating, so maybe there IS a connection here.

Ok, something else in this book:

"If you really care about your partner, you won't encourage him or her to suffer on your behalf - not even once:.

Ok. Now when I apply this to my situation, I think of my H drinking with his buddies.

As does my H, but in a different way. He views the above statement (not a DJ, he explained how he felt lat night) him not being able to go drinking with his buddy (overnights, camping, whathaveyou) is ME making HIM suffer on my behalf, not the other way around.

What do we do with that? He feels entitled to go and do this and me not wanting him to is making him suffer.

Oh, and last night my husband asked me how long I was going to keep in prison (in regards to going to see his friend) because I do not feel he has proven he is trustworthy.

The question is how long he intends to follow the POJA. If the answer is not "for life," then he's not worth this.

Ok, H is a Freeloader:

Freeloaders want a relationship where they are accepted as they are, without any need for change and without any real expectation for mutual care!

Whoa! H has SAID this to me on so many occasions! Just said it last week "you told me when we met that you would never try and change me and you knew how much I enjoy time with my friends".

Did you mention that:
1) He had an EA and refuses to admit it was an EA?
2) He recently asked you to go to a conference where OW would be in attendance and erased messages so that you wouldn't find out OW was going to be at his school?
3) the incident w/him kissing your friend and asking for a threesome?

I do believe he feels it is a jail sentence to offer these things (meaning things to prove he is trustworthy) for life.