Question - is it healthy to have a list of examples of behavior to show your spouse the things that have taken place have lead to not trusting them? When my H tells me I am disrespecting him, I ask for examples (MC suggested this). He usually does not give me any (or have any, not sure if he is just blame-shifting, or what). I want to know so I can change those things. I have a desire to change things my H sees as disrespectful. Still waiting to find out what those are. I am not referring to AHs.

My H has flat out told me the last couple/few days that he feels he is working his tail off to make me happy, but nothing he does is ever good enough (said those words exactly). It is true. Whatever it is he thinks he is doing (again, I asked and he had no examples), it is NOT working for me. I am OBVIOUSLY incredibly unhappy. "Yeah, well so am I". When I ask why, then he tells me it is because I keep him in prison. I explain he is not in prison and that I just do not trust him, and then gave him a few examples of why. I do not believe at ALL, he is understanding this. He isn't cheating, so what else could I possibly need him to do to prove himself.

Last night in talking with my gf, I literally had a list in my head, in chronological order, of the situations that has led me not to trust him. Do I write that down and give it to him so he can read something tangible? It is laid out and maybe it will resonate? The list is pretty long. It is pretty hurtful.

Thank you, LA.

When I read your posts, I always feel myself deflate, relax, contemplate, think. I appreciate your input, as always.

And I know you are right. I am fighting myself. I am trying to remember who I was pre-A, to get back and remember and use my coping skills. I had them for a while. I know I did!

I wouldn't give him the list - or if I did I would put a different slant on it.

The reason you don't trust him is not the horrible things he has done in the past. There are dozens of people on here who's spouses did horrible things to them, and they are recovered. You are not recovered because he has not made any real changes to reassure you that those horrible things wont happen again.

You live every day in fear - wondering what does he need? where am I messing up? what am I doing wrong? Constantly in self protection mode trying to protect yourself from the next wound he will inflict on you, because you KNOW he will inflict it again. Because he has done nothing to change himself. There are no protections in place to keep him from hurting you and the way he acts - hurting you is not something he cares about avoiding.

The problem isn't what he's done. The problem is that he's done nothing to prevent it happening again.

You cannot do all the work here. Recovery takes both of you.

Please go back and reread LA's post. Very good stuff there.

I agree 100% to this. This is exactly how I feel. Waiting for that other shoe to drop. Consistently, every single year we have been together, something big has happened to send me spiraling down in hurt and confusion. Each year. It has been 7 months and I guess I am anticipating him doing something hurtful again in the next few months. He will beg, plead, promise... until next time.

How do you mean put another slant on it? Can you tell I like examples? It really helps with perspective and how I learn.

A good example is in my most recent post on my thread. (link in siggy)

Basically DH and I have always struggled with the issue of porn in our marriage. He doesn't like using it and yet it is a form of stress release and fantasy escape for him when life is getting too overwhelming. The temptations start coming on very strong and sometimes he gives in. These have only been a handful of occasions but they are VERY painful and fill me with revulsion.

He has been working very hard to overcome this but he needs my support. I haven't been able to give it. I just couldn't. I couldn't, in my mind, figure out how to be supportive without condoning his behavior.

Earlier this week we sat and talked about it and I told him I couldn't be supportive because I was always waiting for the next slip up - for it to happen again. I couldn't support setting myself up for more pain. The reason I couldn't be supportive: I could see no protections, I didn't see him doing anything tangible to protect himself from slipping up again, to me he was just hoping he wouldn't do it again because he didn't want to hurt me. That wasn't good enough. Hope is not a plan!

I told him in order to feel protected and supportive I'd need certain things - that's where EPs come in. We laid out a list of EPs and he immediately and whole heartedly agreed to them, and began executing them that very moment, even suggesting a few I hadn't considered.

Now he could slip again, he is human and I understand that. However, I'm no longer living in terror that it is going to happen tomorrow or the next day.

So the slant I would put on it is not "These are the things that you did that make me not trust you." Rather I'd say "These are the things I need to you do now and for the rest of our lives so that I can feel protected and loved, so that I can feel safe trusting you." When he doesn't do those things (i.e. call when he's late) he is reinforcing your fears that you are unprotected and unloved. You WANT to love him. You WANT to trust him, but daily he does things that make that unsafe for you. You are being terrorized by him constantly and he wants you to be happy about that.

Your feelings don't exist in a vacuum they are responses to his treatment of you. That is the way humans work.

Hope that helps a bit.

Vib, that helps more than a bit - a lot! Thank you.

We just had this very conversation:

The reason I couldn't be supportive: I could see no protections, I didn't see him doing anything tangible to protect himself from slipping up again, to me he was just hoping he wouldn't do it again because he didn't want to hurt me. That wasn't good enough. Hope is not a plan!

He still did not find this fair. I will address it again when we are both not so raw. I think that is really off putting for him because we are both so emotionally on edge with each other.

When I asked him what he was doing to show me (tangible) to protect our M and to protect himself from something happening again, all he came up with is "I am not cheating". He does not understand that it does not work that way.

Ugh! My H just asked me to arrange a sitter so I can go to a school play tonight - not much notice. Our main sitter is out of town, my house is a mess and the play is at his old school. Where OW works (but doubt she would be there on 7 on a Fri night, but she DOES write reviews for plays). I asked him if this was a requirement that he go, and if he knew about it before today.

"Yes, I just forgot with everything else".

Wow. He really is foggy.

Your F(?)WH is going to the workplace of his F(?)OW? He asked you to go with him too? Could he have wanted you NOT to be able to go?

How exactly does this work out? Does he see OW?

This is for a middle school play, but they use the high school's facilities. He just now said there are 5 shows starting tonight, through the weekend, so if we cannot get a sitter, we can go to a matinee and take the kids.

I highly doubt OW will be there all weekend, as she has nothing to do at all with the middle school my H works at. This highschool is over a 1/4 mile long, her room is on the opposite end, and I do not expect her (or any teacher, for that matter) to be at work. She is a single mom with 2 kids. Of course, there is always the possibility.

10 minutes til radio show! I am calling in now!

Now I get to hold for at least 8 minutes. LOL

Listening to you, Gdar.

G- I doubt you're here right now, but I feel you are leaving out valuable information pertinent to your situation by not including the kissing incident. I think that is relevant to your situation.

Ok, thanks Vib. I will bring this up.

Not finding a spot to get that in there...

Scotland, her H asked her to go to a conference where OW would be. He agreed he shouldn't go alone, but that Gdar should try to make arrangements for babysitting so she could go with. If you look back in my posts, my first post on her thread is posted after she posted about being frustrated that he wasn't canceling when she couldn't get childcare.

Then the second part is that OW was going to his school and she found this out by going thru his emails.

Does Dr H know about this? I just logged on and nothing about the A's is being talked about?

I see you found a spot. Way to go!!

It will be coming up, Susie!

((G)) hon, you're doing good.

Pheww, I just wanted to make sure he had the full picture!