It is hard, but you are in plan A and this is typical. She is taking you for a ride. What about practicing detachment?
If it is hard to sleep with her, and it must be given her crazy behaviour, you can ask her to please sleep in a different part of the house till she is sure she can be ok sleeping with you.
Do not attach yourself to her too much. Attachment is what brings pain. Jesus said so ( be ready do forsake your own mother etc...for me.) and Buddha said the same thing 600 years earlier. The root of all pain is attachement-desire.
It is human to be attached, but if you practice not having any expectations from her and if you say to yourself: am I happier alone or with this woman? Do I want to be happy without her or unhappy with her.
Ignore her. Be nice, do plan a but ignore her fits and tantrum. Pretend she is doing that to someone else, not you.
Live your life as if all the bad things are happeing to someone else, not you.That is the intro course to practicing detachement.
Try it, you will feel a lot more empowered. Take back your power. She has your power. You gave it to her. Come back to yourself. Love yourself.
blessing

YEG...i hate it for you, dude. i have no advice. you're getting advice from the hard-a55 dads who've been through it, all i can do is throw you a little perspective now n then, and if WW has ME confused and conflicted i can't even imagine where your mind's at. what is up with some plan b? if you're going to let her stay while she makes up her mind yet again, how bout this:

ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to. it puts the onus on her to NOT avoid getting caught, but to AVOID LYING. it takes all the fun little spy games and the accompanying illicit thrill out of the equation.
it says, "OK, WW, i'm not going to bother with monitoring, because it's eating up time that i could be spending doing something ELSE. if you want to kiss and hold hands and sleep in my bed, though, I'm going to ask that you extend me the courtesy of not conducting your affair while you're deciding.
do not call him or text him. OK? all i have is your word. if your word is worth anything--and i'm still prepared to believe that it is--i won't feel compelled to monitor. if he calls or texts you, you're to tell me immediately. OK? Ok."

it's asking her to do something because it's RIGHT, and it takes you out of the equation as a "common enemy" for WW and OM. and of course, if she breaks her word, Plan B on the spot. also, if you extend her the opportunity w/ an air of confidence, she's going to assume it's because you have some James Bond monitoring stuff up your sleeve. let her think you've got the eye-in-the-sky. let that serve as her conscience for a while til she gets her own back.

p.s. OM sounds like a scum-sucking mutant dinosaur toad.

("im not going to offer any advice," she advised advisorily).

I'm sorry, but this sounds like incredibly bad advice.

This wife is till wayward, and a BS should NOT take the word of a wayward. No BS should be encouraged to trust his WS. Waywards lie about contact as naturally as breathing. This advice is leading YEG straight into a false recovery.

My being unable to monitor my H's affair, which took place when he worked abroad, did nothing to stop the illicit thrill he experienced by escaping from domesticity, his enjoyment of both mine and his OW's worship and his addiction to the meetings for sex. I became unable to monitor events because he caught on to the fact that I was reading his workplace mobile, and he simply left it at work. When he was forced to bring it home to take it abroad, he arranged with his girlfriend not to text him on it. For months I was unable to find out anything.

I eventually found out about the still ongoing affair (on about the 4th major D Day, after 3.5 years of the affair) when she did indeed text him on it - knowing that I would read the texts, and hoping that I would throw out H. She told me this in so many words when we spoke on the phone.

Dr Harley advises spying. I have never seen anything written by him that advocates asking a wayward to give her word.

I can see from what YEG writes that spying is nearly impossible with his very tech-savvy wife, but telling him to ask for her word, stop spying and then stick to his side of the deal when she will no such thing herself is dangerous.

Stan,

Imho you are wrong. Romantic passionate love cannot co-exist with what you call long-term calm love. That cannot be the case for MOST people. Most normal people would react vehemtly against an invasion on their sacred trust, especially if children are involved. I feel this is a most immoral view of marriage, the strife that every married couple goes thru, and the sanctity of exclusiveness. Most of us have only one chance in life to have a sacred, exclusive, and sanctified relationship within marriage.

I am sorry but I have to strongly express my opinion agaisnt your's.

Tom

SugarCane, i'm sorry to hear of your situation. You're speaking from a position of experience, and your post made me realize i need to clarify, big-time.

right now he's not doing any monitoring at ALL, and she knows it. i assumed he was going to line up something, tech-savvy or not--in the interrim, what's wrong with ASKING for her word? it's legitimate even in plan a to DEMAND THAT ALL CONTACT CEASE. i took for granted that there would be new spying techniques lined up--otherwise how would he know whether or not she was holding up her end of the verbal deal?

at this point she's saying she's willing to recommit--which gives him a chance to impose conditions. to clarify--YEG, obviously you're not going to blindly trust her. spying reinstated go without saying.

SugarCane, thank you--i didn't mean for it to sound like he should actually give up on spying, i'm saying, don't let her think she's outsmarted you, and give her a chance AS A "RECOMMITTED" wife to prove her commitment with a simple TEST of good faith. and it's only a TEST if you can test it. i.e. if you're NOT monitoring her, how would you KNOW if she's keeping her word and therby hold her accountable?

YEG

Looks like it going to rain here tonight but fireworks still on and my son and his intended are picking me up soon. Do you know what...I took my W to fireworks 43 years ago today to fireworks in my hometown in Wis. and we watched them and she was impressed.

Now a question for You. I would like to know how you would respond and address this situation. I am bringing C home here for tomorrow and Tues. Tuesday is her birthday and I am taking her out to dinner. Quick facts: married 41 years, she is in a nursing home, and we have not lived together since last end of August. So, when I talked to her today she is cold and upset that I did not make the effort to call her earlier, or try to get her here today. (risk is if she is discovered here could damage my lease on the condo). I told her last week we are sleeping on Our bed. She doesn't like it supposidly cause I snore and I really do and realize it and have bought otc meds.

I pick her up at 8 am tomorrow morning. So YEG, I am interested in Your view, would you push it or not. I want to ask you this becasue altho you are alot younger, and you do seem like a decent guy who i would like a comment from, but also to get your focus on trying to focus on otheres as well.

Thanks. Happy 4th and am off now.

Tom

I am unable to do love like that and it seems you are the same.

However, everyday men and women indulge in cake eating affairs.

Furthermore, ask any cake eating wayward if it is possible to feel romantic passion for OP and calm long lasting love at home with the spouse.

RN, that would be dishonest and foolhardy. First off, he doesn't trust her. She is untrustworthy. And affording trust to an untrustworthy person is foolish and serves no purpose. He should tell her he DOES NOT TRUST HER and give her an opportunity to earn his trust.

Trust must be earned. And even then, it should never go back to what it was before. It was TOO MUCH TRUST that led to the affair in the first place.

A better solution than asking for the word of a liar is to ask for PROOF. If she opens up her life and makes it completely transparent, he won't have to ASK, he will be able to SEE with his own eyes. She will need to figure out how to PROVE she is being faithful.

YEG, are you telling me you have not exposed this affair to the OM's COMMAND? Why is that?

Melody, you are absolutely correct--SugarCane also posted an objection, and i realized i hadn't made it clear what i was suggesting: i apologize for the confusion.


I'm sorry for the confusion, all!

Thanks for the clarification, RN. Its important that he understand that it is excessive trust that leads to affairs.

I expect sporadic contact even if WW is dedicated to save the marriage. The contact will become less frequent over time ann then one day there will not be anymore.

With no ability to spy I see nothing wrong about asking WW to be truthful. There is nothing to lose with asking.

The important thing is to see some progress.

Can anyone avoid a false recovery?

Yes! Do not try to recover and get a divorce.

False recovery will have to be an acceptable risk.

Well of course. That is why Dr Harley specifies a very strict path to recovery. A false recovery is much more painful than the initial discovery of an affair because by then, the BS is extremely beaten down. This is the main reason why Steve Harley recommends coaching with him BEFORE Plan B is ended, for example, in order to make sure there is a PLAN IN PLACE to recover the marriage. Without a plan it is a disaster.

The plan for recovery is very specific:

continued here

Nope being close to her physically is no problem. Ill hold her all day if she will let me.

hes just a coward who is hiding behind my wife's skirt.


Pretty much is impossible to get anything on her now. She claims she had techs from her old job come through and sweep the house for bugs. Probably a fib but she DOES have access to equipment like that. Thats who found the KL.


As for me id try it. Do everything you can to avoid snoring (ironically the WW said that was a reason she didnt like sleeping in the same bed as me). Give the snore strips for your nose a try.

BTW Ive followed your threads for a while. Just haven't had much time lately with my world spinning off its axis.

Ive said that to her. Problem is she isnt willing to touch on EPs yet.

Hopefully I can get her to talk to steve. I think she will and he can sell them.

If not then im pretty much buying into a FR.


I have. I havent re exposed a second time.

I could deal with the contact if it was just that. Him constantly professing his love for her and her agreeing and sneaking around is unacceptable. Just because they didnt have enough time to have sex doesnt make it ok.


There will be some considerable risk to it. Hopefully Steve can help me gauge and minimize it. Im kinda lost right now since my FBI Jr techniques are totally useless against the real FBI.

YEG, there is a huge difference between taking appropriate risks and taking foolish risks. A reconcilation with NO PLAN for recovery is a foolish risk and an invitation to a false recovery. That is NEVER advocated by the Harleys. In fact, Steve coaches people to have their WS talk to him FIRST before reconciliation takes place to make sure the WS is willing and committed to recovery.

Your wife is NOT committed to recovery if there are not even EPs in place. That is the first STEP and that has not been taken, YEG.

If you set no standards for recovery, a cake eating WS will just live down to your standards. That is a huge mistake.

YEG, the OM needs to be exposed AGAIN if he is still in touch with your wife. Stop protecting him and start making his life a holy hell. That is how you ruin his affair. OM are weasels and cowards and they are not going to tolerate too much trouble over a cheap piece. Better to find one that is less trouble.

p.s. YEG, I may be preaching to the choir, but in MB terms, recovery means the end of the affair, affair proofing the marriage, and the CREATION of romantic love in the marriage.

You will find older posters who don't know this. When I arrived on this board, people RARELY even spoke about Marriage Builders and their idea of "recovery" was simply staying married. That is not what Marriage Buildrs considers to be recovery.

So when someone tells you that you should be glad to just be together, I would question their perspective on recovery, because you might find it differs GREATLY from what MB subscribes.

There is Plan A, Plan B and Plan RECOVERY. No in between. Dr Harley is very clear that Plan C [for compromise] is what will lead to a divorce.

Why are you no longer monitoring her? I don't care if she sweeps the car looking for devices. You should have GPS on her car. If she takes it off, then you know she is up to something. You should have a keylogger on her computer. If she takes it off, you know she is up to something. It should be a condition of allowing her to stay home. You keep accepting crumbs. No more neediness. If she isn't going to jump fully on board, then she can get out. Nothing angry or needy, just calm and stern.

YEG, whatever happens, she isn't going to commit to the marriage for SEVERAL months after NC w/ OM. You need to help her through these months and constantly VERIFY there is NC, otherwise, your situation won't improve. I guarantee you that she kept waffling for so long because she was in contact. She needs at least 2-3 months without any contact whatsoever for her to be able to commit. You don't need the commitment to the marriage right now as much as you need to verify NC. If you keep up the NC, the commitment will come.

You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?

Yes!!!!

I agree!
Great post!