Wow....
See, I just cant talk to them when they are this Foggy.
It's like a trigger to me.

I read enough of the website where I got the impression that raging at the BS is not considered helpful and I thought what I was asking was how to protect myself from his rage such that further damage is not done to the marriage. The wisdom of the forum seems to be that I forfeited any right to set boundaries on how he talks to me and I should simply endure.

I have never and will never shirk responsibility for the decision I made to have an A. I was trying to explain the issues with me that factored into that decision. I'm not a puppy, nor am I an idiot. I failed to take care of my emotional well being by being assertive with my H and kids and set some meanindul boundaries. I'm a giver - I will go to,ridiculous lengths to keep my family happy no matter how miserable it makes me. And I never say word. But you cannot give from an empty plate. My H has nor been emotionally supportive or available for the last several years and he admits it. He also admits he has been hypercritical and controlling of me -doesnt want me to leave the house or have friends -- and I'm talking about prior to the A. I am NOT trying to justify my conduct -I am describing the context in which I made a terrible decision. I chose to go to another man for an emotional fill up because I was way past empty. Wasn't looking for it - and I know there's going to be a chorus of yes you were but no, I wasn't. I said no to the other man right up until the time I said yes.

Being pursued is intoxicating and likening it to drug addiction is dead on. Possibly if it hadn't been this guy who I met quite randomly and would never normally encounter - he lives in Europe half the time - it would have been someone else later. But I doubt it. I think I would have limped along keeping my H and kids happy, living an internal life of resentment and misery, until one day I died.

I thought maybe the A might be a catalyst for a different kind of marriage. 5 hours ago when I posted here I was guardedly optimistic. But there's no hope- his rage requires that he annihilate me and if I put up any sort of fight at all I'm not acknowledging his pain or I'm making making excuses. I'm now toast.

And Mr. Pity Party - I'd be careful in the future - you don't have the faintest idea what is going on in the lives of those who are closest to you for the most part, much less someone who is posting on a website on such an emotionally charged issue. You should be mindful of the damage you can do with your contempt and dismissiveness - "I'm going to sit back and watch this one." I recognize cruelty when I see it and having bared my soul looking for collective wisdom, I read that and gave up.

You are responsible for ALL your decisions, including your decision to deride me.

I better just shut up and take whatever he dishes out then. I'm extremely

Smilingwoman, is broken the goal?

I read enough of the website where I got the impression that raging at the BS is not considered helpful and I thought what I was asking was how to protect myself from his rage such that further damage is not done to the marriage. The wisdom of the forum seems to be that I forfeited any right to set boundaries on how he talks to me and I should simply endure.

The gratuitous cruelty on this website is indefensible - sorry smiling woman - I'm not sticking around to be "broken" for your and your buddies entertainment.

Some of you had great thinfs to say that helped me clarify and I thank you. It is quite clear who wanted to sincerely help no matter how hard their worda are to read. It is also easy to identify the sick souls who get off on other peoples pain.

I am so out of here

At the core, I did it because I felt entitled & I was selfish. It was easier for me to enjoy the attentions of a woman who lavished attention on me, than to do the hard emotional spadework with my wife that could've shored up our marriage.

The gratuitous cruelty on this website is indefensible - sorry smiling woman - I'm not sticking around to be "broken" for your and your buddies entertainment.

Some of you had great thinfs to say that helped me clarify and I thank you. It is quite clear who wanted to sincerely help no matter how hard their worda are to read. It is also easy to identify the sick souls who get off on other peoples pain.

I am so out of here

I gather this thread is not meant for the betraying spouse. If anyone knows of a thread point me to it.

I ordered the books earlier this week.

It was never my intention to discount his pain. I recognize that an affair trumps everything.

I'm willing to tell him the details if he wants to hear but not if he is going to get violent again.

My short term thinking has been to do no more damage to him, me or our marriage.

I came to this forum expecting some help on setting boundaries on what a productive discussion might look like. I get back "foggy" and "pity party" and I want to protect myself at his expense. Really? And you get to say that because you know so much about me? Or is it because you are mad that a cheating spouse had the nerve to post here looking for help?

What am I willing to do? Anything up to becoming suicidal again.

The gratuitous cruelty on this website is indefensible - sorry smiling woman - I'm not sticking around to be "broken" for your and your buddies entertainment.

Some of you had great thinfs to say that helped me clarify and I thank you. It is quite clear who wanted to sincerely help no matter how hard their worda are to read. It is also easy to identify the sick souls who get off on other peoples pain.

I am so out of here

The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.

But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation.

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The giver is all about love and concern and the taker is our selfish side...so how can the giver be bad, or the taker be good?

Everybody recognizes the "good" in the giver and how giving can enhance relationships, but here's how a "bad" giver can ruin your marriage if all your marital choices are made solely selflessly:

*your giver is not honest....he won't tell your spouse what you need because he more concerned about your spouse feels, whether your spouse gets his needs met, than protecting your interests or your feelings. If your spouse asks the giver if it's okay to do something....even something you don't want to do...the giver says okay.

*your giver is the one who creates resentment...all that dishonesty cloaked in care....leads to misunderstandings, mixed signals, missed opportunities. The giver thinks...my spouse should KNOW what I need....just like I know what he needs.

*your giver is your martyr....endless giving creates the ever suffering spouse. Givers are praised for their selflessness, but they become very unhappy until all that's left is to somehow enjoy the pain....and get what secondary gain that offers.

*givers avoid risk and change...no rocking the boat...who knows what could happen? Nope, givers like safety....even when that involves enduring discomfort.

*givers believe in unconditional love...because they don't ask for conditions. They just give.

*givers handle your tender emotions...fear, sadness, care, consideration. They also tend to be weepy and needy.

We all know how "bad" the taker can be....afterall he's the guy who makes selfish demands, angry outbursts and most of our other LBs. But how can the taker be "good"?

*your taker is the guy you need at the negotiation table....because your giver will NOT create harmony, fairness, honesty in the dealings. Without your taker, your giver will create an environment of sacrifice....leading to resentment, anger and loss of love.

*your taker is honest about what you need and gives your spouse the information to CHOOSE to show you he loves you in the way that you would like it. He doesn't require mind reading...he lays it on the table.

*your taker fights for what you need and doesn't let you sit home three weekends in a row...he makes sure you're part of the fun.

*your taker is not an enabler or codependent.

*your taker saves your marriage as often as your giver does by making sure that reciprocity exists.

*your taker is willing to take risks and make changes.


As an example, I'd like to put forward my own marriage and how my giver undermined the happiness in my marriage for years. I NEVER went into negotiations with my taker....so I never even got close to getting what I wanted. I always put my husband first. But I wasn't happy. I didn't like it.....and I BLAMED HIM for not giving me what I wanted even though I wasn't honest and he didn't know how to please me. There is no negotiation without the taker...the giver just says "fine", do what you want. I lived with resentment every time he did what he wanted. I punished him for it too. And I was not someone who he would want to spend time with in the future either because I was pretty much angry all the time.

Letting my taker out saved my marriage. Oh to be sure, I couldn't let my taker rant and rage....but once he wasn't in chains all the time, he was far less volatile. My taker is the one who found out that my husband was actually willing and pretty enthusiastice about negotiation. Instead of the old pattern...H wants to do something...I say yes...then treat him badly. The new pattern goes like this....H wants to do something, I tell him how I might feel enthusiastic about that...we come to an agreement about how we can both get what we need....and I treat him well...and we both have fun! He gets to enjoy his activities without guilt. I know that I won't be neglected because we have also made plans together.

So now I am faced with the prospect of trying to fix things without losing myself in the process. And losing my sense of self -- becoming essentially invisible in the marriage -- is the primary reason I had an affair to start with. I've read a lot about why women cheat, and in the end, at least in my case, I don't think it's rocket science. It didn't take much -- the other man was nice to me. My psychiatrist says I am like a puppy -- put out a bowl of warm milk for me and I'll love you forever.

H obviously now has the moral high ground

I am terrified that I will return to my prior state of invisible doormat because I feel such guilt and shame. I can't go back there though -- I'll die, and I mean that quite literally.

But bear in mind, I hated myself before I strayed.

The three weeks after H left were possibly the most contented of my entire life because I could be me and he wasn't around to tell me all of the things that are wrong with me.

In my opinion, the only thing more damaging to a M than an affair is contempt.

Please someone tell me how to protect myself while allowing him to vent.