I do not know who black raven is?

To me, people who face most everything with positivity are just putting on a face. Like the refuse to let the adversity show, me I would much rather show that I don't like something, don't agree with something, or want to change something instead of saying, oh yes we can find a way to make that be good.

So you're open and honest like that with your wife?

Maybe next time you could try another method to communicate with J in front of the kids? Maybe you could talk to J about a secret code to use? Maybe you could touch his hand or arm and give him a special look (that you have already discussed ahead of time)? Talk to J. Be united in front of the kids. When my kids were little, I did not start the car until everybody was buckled up. If they fought in the car, I pulled over. If I had to pull over, there were consequences once we got home. I pulled over VERY rarely. I didn't have to yell or be angry. I was just consistent and firm. The rules did not change. They will test you in cycles until they are grown. The quicker they see that the rules haven't changed, the quicker they will settle down.

The onus of J's behavior should not rest on the shoulders of a 7 year old IMO either. Again, unite with J and talk to him. Work out a solution with J. The kids will test you again and again. They all do. Be prepared for it next time.

Good one, got me there, point goes to you CW

Thanks SS2

We have discussed a look and sometimes he's receptive to it. Sometimes, he'll make a big deal out of it and start jumping about about the look.

I think he just needs to get away from the situation then. I know we've had conversation about in the car on L4s thread - did we ever come up with the answer? I'll see if I can look it up.


But what about the stuff when we were back at home and I'd left her alone with him?

I do tend not to let adversity show - because being grateful and positive about what you do have tends to make your situation improve, positivity breeds postivity.

If I disagree with something I certainly let people know and I am all for change too because sometimes change thinks good. I think you have my optimism wrong.

Today is really hard. I can't think straight or concentrate. I'm pretty heartbroken. The things he said are huge for me.

I don't know what to do.

They've gone to a retirement thing for DS's preschool teacher but I just can't face anyone and I don't want to be with J.

Come on, I can see you guys are reading. Does anyone have an opinion? Am I just whining? Should I just try to get over it?
What should I do to protect my children?

ST, I stopped leaving my kids alone with my H for more than about an hour at a time, I think it was about 4 years ago, for about a year. It was a total win-win. I don't think I was RH about this out loud, but it was kind of obvious. It was a way of making sense of a nonsensical situation. It wasn't honest of me to leave my kids with him when I was broken up about it. Over time, their dad acted differently, and it became obvious that it was safe again. I just had to be patient and let my H's behavior change in it's own time.

Now ST, I don't know if this was the MB thing to do. It made a lot of withdrawals. Plan A is intended to be for a short time. But it was a part of an extended "getting my ducks in a row" process so I could cut out the unconditional love. MAybe it takes longer for some of us than others.

But that's not what I hope for you, ST. I hope your marriage is ready for what the other poster suggested, that you can get there in the present with the Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation. That you are ready already to work for for no less than solutions that you both are enthusiastic about. It's a great process, this negotiation, one that makes deposits in your marriage, gives both of you confidence in one another and in your family together.

Thank you NED,

I s'pose that wasn't what I initially wanted to hear, so I'll have to think about it.

We have had the discussion as the other poster suggested but when rage over took this time he couldn't do it.

He says, he can do it with me now - and yes he can. So why couldn't he do it with a 7 year old?

I'm mad aswell because 24 hours after the incident with DD he tried to justify it with something that I asked him 24 hours previously (the sports club membership). That put him in a bad mood and that's why he was horrible to DD.

Although he did take that back too. That's the first time he has tried to blame me for bad behaviour since he has been doing the perps course.

the thing that gets me is that he hasn't shed a tear about it- he says he's sorry he did it. Now he does have a tendency to tears, particularly if he has messed up. Why none this time? Can he not imagine how poor DD felt?

Actually we did Myers Briggs last night

I scored ENFJ, he scored ISTJ, but he only scored 1 for S.

Not entirely sure how it works but that mean he isn't intuitive and only just sensing? Maybe he can't imagine how DD felt.

(((((((((((ST)))))))))))

Your situation is tough. You are committed to being married so my advice is with that goal in mind. It would be easy to say that he is selfish and mean. It certainly seems that way from your posts. However, he is not here to defend himself and we are only getting half of the story. I realize that too. I scored a ESTJ on the Myers Briggs test. So does that mean that I am an extroverted version of J? I don't think so. lol. But since we are talking about the tests, I do like to have things orderly and manageable. I like to have some control (a lot actually) over the course of my day/life. I hate having someone try to fix me or change me. I can't stand being told that I am doing something wrong. I don't take criticism very well at all. In those respects am I similar to J?

I thrive when I am appreciated and respected. I like it when things are orderly and "under control". I like a very clean house. I like to know what to expect as a rule. I like schedules and routines. I am not normally a big fan of surprises. I need peace and calm to feel happiest. I hate bickering and conflict in general.

OK, yes it is my goal -althoughhe still thinks I'm looking ofr any excuse to throw it away.

He can be...so can I.I think I'm quite good at fair represnentation I just read the ESTJ portrait and I think that actually - that fits J better. Would an introverted type, really stand up and lead the dancing at social event, off the cuff?

This is certainly J. Yes he hated it. It's great that he now sees the change he needs to make. Yep, in all those ways


These things are certainly 100% J.

Thing is I love to have a vague plan, but I love fluidity and taking advantage of opportunities as they arise. Imust like routine to more of an extent than I thought, because it is such a relief to have J of shift. TO feel happiest I need change and movement and any excitement thrown in for good measure. Peace and calm just isn't for me.

Having done the test (and cos I read your thread) _ I see why having my needs met is so traumatic for J - and vice versa.

I can do the appreciation and respect and I do because I appreciate it so much myself. If there is anything in these types then we will have to work very hard miles out of our comfort zones to come together.

And I have to say I love a good discussion and difference of opinion.

But I know that I have changed - I used to love everything exactly in it's place and things spotless and I think when the kids have flown the nest my type may change again. I used to watch the clock in the morning before work and know that I was to schedule to the minute.

OK. so I can go on, thank you SS2 and NED


But how do I let him know how appalled I am at what happened andhow shaken I am by it. How am I going to know that he won't do it again? What will happen when she's a teenager and really testing the boundaries?

Well here is the other problem that you are dealing with: J is a perpetrator. He is working on it but he is still a standard risk. I don't know anything about that personality type. You probably know much more about that than I. Do you think that as he backs off from physical abuse, the verbal abuse will increase? Does he have a need or tendency to control his surroundings with abusive behavior? His comments and threats to your daughter are abusive IMHO.

Hey ST, I forgot you moved over here

Thinking about the housework issue, have you ever discussed with J what actual housework he requires to be done?

If your accomplishing that then what he feels is acceptable activities for you to do in your 'free' time since work and home dont take up all day, even with little kids around. Perhaps if he had to think about alternatives, he might either agree that the new gym plan is a good one or even think of things not yet considered. Just a thought.

I think those 3 sentences say it all. Your goal is to parent together in ways that grow your love for each other, and right now, you don't feel cared for and protected. Maybe you should drive for a while. I know I was all to easy to hand over responsibility for things that deep down I knew I should be doing for the time being.

Is J still in an ongoing perpetrator program? What are your boundaries that you will defend with your life regarding your children? Is this a hill to die on or just another aggravation?

He is still doing the perpetrators program and I think he still has at least one module left (each module is 6 weeks). As it is tonight I had a very brief discussion with him last night, to remind him of the convo we had about finding out what standard risk is.

All his abusive traits have reduced in the home. I have noticed (before the course started) that if I was tighter on my boundaries he would start being unreasonable with DD. But this hasn't been happenning.

Yes he can still be abusive in order to control his surroundings. This week he has been bad - particularly with the "do what you want" phrase. If I try discuss something with him that involves both of us and he doesn't want me to. He uses this phrase which actually means "if you go ahead with that, expect me to complain and moan and make your life a misery"

I think controlling with abusive behaviour was very much the norm for him and I have to say that that had almost disappeared.

I don't want to accomplish what he feel is accpetable right now. I don't want him to tell me when my work is done. (I'm not listening am I ;))

This is really hard. One of his hugest complaints when he was working shifts was that he didn't feel involved and that he always felt like a spare part/didn't fit in on his days off. So I have tried to really make sure he is an equal parent and he has really improved so much with that. If I start driving again I'm concerned that he may become more frustrated. But yes, this is what my instinct is telling me to do.

This was s'posed to be it. If it ever turned to the children that would be it.

I wasn't ready for it - I didn't expect it - not now.