Well said Doc

and before you add another obvious question, yes, I know many men either foster, adopt or otherwise raise children that are not their own DNA.

But MOST of these men know this AND make that choice beforehand.

This poster is best helped by learning the value of RH and POJA -

This is negative about DDs. This doesn't sound as if the "Ds" are very "DD" at all:


The post was addressed to docholiday, The Road. The "you are referring to" was referring to his/her post, not yours! Dear me, I don't think my reading comprehension skills are the ones in question here!

"The post was addressed to docholiday, The Road. The "you are referring to" was referring to his/her post, not yours! Dear me, I don't think my reading comprehension skills are the ones in question here!"

I can tell who said what. Unlike some that can't realize that when one finishes reading a thread and clicks on the last post is not necessarily replying to the last post, just where the next poster just clicked to say something.

Clever way for you to avoid all of my latest responses.

Marinemom, what's up with my questions? We don't have to agree but I want to know your latest thoughts.

My reading comprehension skills have completely deserted me now. I can't understand what on earth this is saying!

TheRoad, I asked you where Dr Harley had written this, and you linked

What to Do When you (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child: Letter no.2

However, my reading comprehension skills find this in that advice column:

There are many important issues to consider in deciding your future together. If your daughter were your only child, and if your wife were still in love with her ex-lover, who happened to be single and wanted to marry her, I would lean toward encouraging you to divorce. But since she is the mother of your two children, no longer loves her ex-lover, and wants to save her marriage, I would encourage you to remain married and raise all three children together.

(The daughter in "if your daughter were your only child" refers to the OC.)

IF all those conditions were met, i.e. there were no children of the marriage AND the wife was still in love with the other man AND the other man was single and wanting to marry WW, Dr Harley would encourage the BH to divorce her.

However, since, in the case he is advising, WW IS the mother of the BH's children, AND she no longer loves her OM, AND she wants to save the marriage, he would advise that they stay together and raise all 3 children together.

That is the Harley advice that should be given to mm's BH should he choose to post again, because these are the exact conditions surrounding his marriage.

If, having tried to make the marriage work he finds he cannot do so, he has every right to leave. However, mm is here for MB advice, and that is given in the cited letter by Dr Harley.

Questions about how many children she is willing to give him to get a son are a distraction from marriage building.

He was deceived to have a second child (actualy his first) because his WW lied to him and hid the truth.

Would of this BH of had this second child if he had known the truth?

Witholdng the truth should be enough justification for the BH to walk away from this if he so desires.

What was done here is nothing more then a woman trapping a man into marriage by getting him to knock her up. She got pregnant the second time to get BH in the family nest.

When if the truth came out in time this BH should of stepped aside and let the OM take his rightful place as husband and dad of his family.

While this WW was getting screwed, she screwed over the OM's right and responsiblities to be a dad, and screwed over the BH by lying to him until she hoped enough time and another child to trap him from wanting to leave.

Marinemom how are you going to undo all these wrongs?

I wish Marinemom would answer for herself.

TR: Maybe she's not answering because your questions are rather offensive, and your assumptions aren't even based on the facts in her situation.

I'm pretty sure that her BH knew about the fact that their older son wasn't biologically his when they decided to have their daughter. The baby is just a little over a year old and her BH has known about the biology of the first child for 2 years.

I have to wonder why you worry so mucha bout OM's rights over and over again, TR? OM was the interloper in another man's marriage. Yes, marinemom was wrong to deceive her BH about the paternity of her child. That has been dealt with. Her BH knows the truth. They have a COM and that cannot be undone. The BH has been raising the OC. It is his child biology or not. He is the "daddy".

If the BH now wants a D, it is his choice. However, the truth is 2 years after dday is a tough time for nearly all betrayed spouses.

I just went through a complete and total meltdown last month. It is nearly 2 years since my last dday and nearly 1.5 years since we started visitation with the OC. The anger and fresh feelings of betrayal and devastation caught me completely off guard. I was ready to jump ship and really nobody would blame me for those feelings. However, like marinemom, my FWH is remorseful and doesn't want a D. He was bowled over by my feelings of wanting to D again.

So, lets help marinemom because she is here seeking help.

She did not "trap him from wanting to leave" by getting pregnant before revealing.

The BH did know the truth before the second child was conceived. Both WW and BH were posting here in 2008, just after D Day and the DNA test, before the conception of their daughter.

The BH appeared to commit to the marriage and bring up the boy as his own, then they had a daughter, and now this difficulty has arisen.

With the affair and the OC, the BH has justification for walking away now if he so desires. He has had that justification since 2008, and nobody here has told him (or her) otherwise.

Dr Harley would advise him to stay and bring up both children, since his wife is not in love, or in contact, with OM, and she wants to save the marriage. He isn't here, so we should help the BW strengthen her marriage so that her H will want to stay.

Wow, there are a lot of strong opinions in this thread, and several strong assumptions.

I may comment on a few of them in time.


MM, have you snooped?
You need to!
I fear you H may be having a RA/PA.

Are you being the best wife you can be? Are you trying to meet your H's Emotional needs? You should be.

Excellent question. Are you and your H following MB, mm?

"I have to wonder why you worry so mucha bout OM's rights "

Not rights it's his getting away with not handling his responsibilities.

Yes none of this can be undone. It seems that the WW never admits to this.

The best way to keep the interloper (OM) out of the M is to not go after him for CS. Making him pay for his responsibilities (and yes the WW was responsible too) means opening the door for visitation with the OC. I can tell you personally that ongoing C with the xOP is not healthy for a M. My life would be pretty happy if I could completely rid our lives of the xOW.

So this is your agenda,TheRoad: making OM handle his responsibilities and making the WW admit that what she did cannot be undone.

This board is about marriage building. Dr Harley has given his advice to couples in an OC situation. If they want to rebuild their marriage, then NC with the OP is imperative. If there are children of the marriage, and if the WW is not in love with OM, is not being pursued by him and is trying to rebuild her marriage, then his advice is for NC with OM and for the BH to bring up all the children. Recovery from any affair is cripplingly hard, and is worse when there is an OC reminder to deal with. The best that can be done is for there to be no relationship with OP at all, even financial.

The BH does not have to stay and work on the marriage, but leaving his children will hurt him and them, and is unnecessary when the WW is not interested in OM and wants to rebuild the marriage. If he thinks he can try, then Dr Harley will help him achieve that best outcome in poor circumstances.

Yet your agenda remains to pursue couples in an OC situation and berate them for letting OM evade his responsibilities.

You are not interested in helping the couple strengthen their marriage and overcome the infidelity, as this board is.

You should leave couples in this situation alone.

As usual, we have another thread that's going to implode over things/issues that haven't even been raised. Don't think the OP ever brought up child support, making someone pay, yada yada yada. The one and only issue is whether the OP can determine in her mind if she is willing to put in the work necessary - according to MB principles - and whether her husband is really going to be receptive to her overtures,all this extracurricular activity is just a threadjack.

I have stated my opinion that it doesn't seem like her husband is going to be able to get past this, that she could be Joan of Arc, Mother Teresa, and whatever other saint you can roll into one person and it really wouldn't matter. While I think her behavior has been reprehensible, and I don't think she and her husband ever really tried to recover her marriage, I think the "help" we should give her is two-fold - a refresher course in MB principles and enough information from varying viewpoints or perspectives to let her make her own choice whether she can get her husband to go along with recovery or just acknowledge that he's never going to get over this.

"The best way to keep the interloper (OM) out of the M is to not go after him for CS. Making him pay for his responsibilities (and yes the WW was responsible too) means opening the door for visitation with the OC. I can tell you personally that ongoing C with the xOP is not healthy for a M. My life would be pretty happy if I could completely rid our lives of the xOW."

True.

Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. The pieces will never go back together again the way they should of been.

I don't think anyone is denying this, but what is your point in bringing it up over and over again? People can only work with the situation at hand. No one can go back and undo what has been done. The only choice is to move forward from where you are right now. Everyone can do that.

If indeed it is true, the OM has legal rights to his child.

This is where RH needs to come out. Maybe with a phone coaching, here. EVERYONE has limits, there is no shame to that. I am hoping this family can make it.

Sounds like both parties need to do some soul searching, put everything on the table and decide if they can live in a happy M with all these points validated, accepted and known.

Actually, her H is on the birth certificate, so he is the one who has legal rights to this child. The OM has no rights whatsoever as it stands now. In my state (CA) he never would, since there is a 2-year statute of limitations on contesting paternity.