Well I found the list of abbreviations so it's easier to understand. Been reading all morning and I have to say there are some amazing people here. The strength, determination and fortitude some of you folks have shown in your stories is awe-inspiring. I don't think I'd be able to handle the situations you have without a complete meltdown.

The strange thing is we have (had?) a pretty much perfect MB marriage without even knowing such a thing existed. Total openess and honesty, what you guys call undivided attention, we call "us time". We regularly talk about our individual needs in our marriage and always do our best to fulfill them for each other. I talked to my sister about our situation this past weekend and she told me our problem was we were too close, that we needed lives and friends outside the marriage. How can a married couple possibly be too close?

I'm struggling mightily with the notion that this has become a physical affair. How, when, where and most of all why? I seem to swing between believing in her and our marriage and wanting to find this guy and rip him limb from limb.

As for the OM (that phrase feels so dirty) he is married, but from what little I have heard, the story is his wife is a control freak that makes his life a living hell and he doesn't know where to turn.

I read in another thread that someone in my position should not tell my wife I am on here. Doesn't that go against the policy of honesty? It feels wrong for me to even be doing this.

I've thought about going to see him. I am 6'2", 210 lbs and very well built and I can be the most intimidating SOB around when I need to so I've been tempted to just go see him and tell him to stay away from my wife or he'll find out what living hell really is.

I just don't know how to handle it. I will intensify my snooping so I can have some hard facts but I am actually afraid of what I will find and I don't know how I'll be able to keep it to myself until I am ready to deal with it properly. I'm not good at secrets and I'm not good at hiding my emotions.

It's not strange at all.

Good marriages do suffer from infidelity. Happens all the time.

The trouble w/ yours was your lack of proper boundaries! Your WW should never have been emailing w/ another man.

That's right! Do not tell your WW about this place!!

You can practice O&H after her A is over and you are in recovery.



Awesome! OM are cowards. If you believe you can talk to him w/o beating the snot out of him...or getting your butt thrown in jail, go ahead and do it.

I have the self-control to not "beat the snot" out of him (but it feels good thinking about it). I'm just afraid it would drive my wife to his defense and make me the bad guy.

Also, do not threaten to tell his W. B/c that will give him a heads up, and he will tell his W that you are a pyscho. That way when you tell her about the A, she will be inclined to disbelieve you.

Never threaten to expose. Exposure must come as a big surprise.

Yup. That is what is likely to happen. The angrier she is at you, the more effective your little talk w/ OM was.

You see, you're WW is addicted to OM. And if you interfer w/ her getting her "fix" it will make her very angry.

Your M can survive her anger, but not an ongoing affair.

OM may choose to end it after you talk to him. Which will make your WW very angry. Or...they may take their affair further underground. Which is why exposure is so important.

His W needs to know.

ETA: That way she can watch from her side and you can watch from yours. And you can compare notes.

Gee, OMW's a control freak? Think a wife who knows her H runs around might try to keep a tight reign him?

A living hell, huh? He doesn't know where to turn? So he turns to other men's wives?

This guy is a number one POS.

You come to this thread and vent.

Tell us what you find and we will help you w/ your emotions and your strategy.

Here's a Do and Don't list that Mr. W brought here.

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Don�t believe a word OM says about his wife. Odds are super high that she�s just fine and that he�s using the excuse of �being on the rocks� to talk to your wife and other women. It gets him sympathy and attention.

I had no clue I was so horrible until I read my exww�s emails to other men while she flirted with them. I also had no clue we were divorcing, despite the fact she told all of them we were.

Imagine her shock when confronted about this. Apparently, all the guys she was flirting with were liars.

Basic point: Waywards lie. The best thing you can do to really kill this is to contact OM�s wife.

Don�t warn anyone. Simply talk to her, tell her that her H is talking to your W and that you�re not comfortable with how they�ve communicated. You�re worried such contact could lead to an affair, if that line hasn�t been crossed already.

Just communicating this to her will probably do 90% of what is need to end this inappropriate friendship, which is exactly what it is.

Your WW will go nuts. She�ll get angry as he77. That�s fine. You can survive that, but you can�t survive an affair.

The biggest thing for you to do is to keep your cool. When she loses it, simply respond with, �I will do what I need to to save this marriage and protect it.�

She already admitted that if the situation was reversed that she would want you to cutoff contact.

Now, I won�t jump the gun yet and assume it�s gone physical. It may not have, but steel yourself for that possibility. I didn�t wish it in my situation, but it ended up being the case.

The key for you is to not warn her of your actions. Don�t tell her, �This stops or else I will (contact OM�s wife, tell your parents, tell the kids, etc�)� Those are things that need to be done without warning if you have solid proof of an affair.

Your line is simple: �Your contact with OM is hurtful, it�s uncomfortable, and I�d like it to stop. If it doesn�t, then there are going to be serious problems between us. If he wants a counselor, then he can hire one. I don�t like the nature of the contact with you.�

That puts it all in her court. She can�t yell at you for controlling her since you haven�t told her what to do. You�ve told her what her actions are doing and how they make you feel and the eventual outcome of those actions.

It will hopefully put a stop to things.

But unlikely.

Keep the keylogger secret and DO NOT reveal that you�re on this site. That�s only to be done if she wishes to help recover your marriage and wants to eat massive amounts of humble pie and get help here. Otherwise she will turn this site against you.

TLCANCUCK

Try to keep in mind that the euphoric state of an affair turns the most stable individual into liars. They will tell you anything that allows them to feed the addiction of the affair. Right now you cannot believe what your wife is telling you. She is drunk on the euphoria of the affair.

Actions speak not words. If she saw him at his home that is a big red flag. I would be very suspicious. I have to agree that right now you need to expose this in a big way. The two love birds need the harsh reality of their actions exposed.

My heart goes out to you. I have gone through this too and it is one of the most difficult things a person will ever have to face.

Blessings
BCboy

Your W met OM and lied about her whereabouts, and then got mad when you questioned her about it??? I will bet the farm that this has turned into a PA. Waywards ALWAYS lie about the length and nature about an A. Find out contact info for the OM and contact his W immediately. Expose EVERYTHING to her and don't let your W know you are doing it. An A stops being so exciting to cheaters once it is brought into the light and not hidden in some sleezy hotel room. The OM is not your W friend, he is her AP (affair partner). Any relationship with an outside individual that makes a spouse uncomfortable should be ended - period. No compromising. Waywards become really good liars. I swear before D-Day, I believed that my DH had the uttermost integrity. The lies he told were ridiculous! If you don't expose this A you are going to loose your W and your M. She is going to fight you because she is getting the feel goods from this A but you have to Plan A and expose immediately.

Wow, thanks for all the advice and support. You don't know how much it means. I just got back from lunch and I work about 5 minutes away from my home so I go home to lunch and there is a positive development.

When I got home W had prepared lunch for me. I usually just grab a quick sandwich or something, but she had made a Philly Cheesesteak sandwich for me (my favorite), including going to the grocery store for fresh buns and peppers. She told me we need some us time tonight, that she really hated where we were right now and that we need to talk things through and reconnect. I'm afraid to get my hopes up because we've talked a few times this past week with lousy results and that's partly my fault because I have found that I have a tendency to yell and get very angry about this situation (which is very out of character for me). She did say she loved me more than life itself and wants to fix things and that no friendship should ever come between married people.

So now I have to get myself in a frame of mind that, no matter how the discussion goes, I will not LB (see, I'm learning the lingo). I will be reasonable and loving and understanding, but at the same time strong and firm in what needs to happen to protect our marriage and family. Somehow, though, I have to get the what-if's out of my head for now. I keep think What if it is physical? You folks talk about Plan A and Plan B but I think I'd be somewhere between Plan Throw The Lying Piece of Trash to the Curb and Plan Plead and Beg My Darling Wife to Stay With Me. I have to stop thinking those things and deal with one step at a time.

I am going to step up my snooping though because I owe my marriage that kind of diligence.

I'm also going to try to get in touch with his W. I know his name and where he works but he has a very common name so I don't know how to find his W short of following him home which would be tough because he's a fireman so he works on a 3 days on , 3 days off type of thing.

You�re doing well and are keeping your head. I commend you for that.

I would be very quiet this evening and listen a lot. Your position is simple: �WW, you have a friendship I find very uncomfortable. Things have been said which cross the line. If you really value how I feel, then you need to do what you wish with that info.�

I would also flat out ask if things have gotten physical. Expect a lie.

Waywards have ways to help lower the suspicion of their betrayed spouses. I think it�s more common with men than women, but a wayward might go on a big romantic trip with their betrayed spouse to lower their suspicions and let them carry on without as much pressure. I know because my dad did it to my mom and my ex would go on �dates� with me to give me hope of reconciliation.

Trust none of what you hear and half of what you see. You�re wise to keep snooping. DO NOT reveal that you are looking at the computer logs. I made a big mistake when I did so.

I hope you�ve caught things when they were at a stage where she was playing with fire and nothing more, but I�m very worried about the fact that she has supposedly met him at his home. Flirting online followed by a meeting = big red flag.

If her idea of talking is justification and rationalization about why this friendship is ok, then find a way to change the subject or walk away or simply express your displeasure quietly without saying anything.

If she asks if it�s ok for her to have this friendship after rationalizing, you can simply say, �he needs to talk to his wife about his problems or hire a professional. I don�t like him doing so with you.�

You can also calmly bring up the things that have been said that are out of line and just flat out express how men are. We don�t innocently flirt. Na�ve women interpret flirting with friendliness, but that is not the case. Their conversations have already crossed the line.

Bottom line: Don�t waste your night on rationalization on her part. Walk away if needed, but don�t yell.

You�re much more attractive and mysterious when you don�t react. Anger only arms her justifications for her continuing need to talk to him. Be James Bond�. Cool as a cucumber.

she could be going into survival mode- as in, placate BH, get him to feel like there's nothing going on, and then I can still go about doing what I feel like with this A- whether EA or PA, still an A....

And then go further underground with everything...

My thoughts also. Many a WW placates the BH so he lets his guard go down so the WW can then pick up where she left of with the OM.

Keylogger, var, gps, keep gathering inteligence for continued contact.

My thoughts too.

No WW changes on a dime like this.

Snoop snoop snoop

I couldn't post last night and won't be able to from home because my computer is in the living room and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to keep my visits here from her but last night was a really rough night. I could really have used the support from here but I can't chance posting from home.

helpthelostdads, you were right - a night of rationalization. It started out well enough with us talking and cuddling, remembering all our great times and just being there, two people in love. I let her bring up the subject of the OM and her first words were to reiterate what she said yesterday, that a friendship should not interfere with a marriage. At that point, my heart was singing, but then it came crashing down as she went on to say that I needed to understand that she married me and loves me, but this is a friend who needs help and she can't turn her back on him. I kept my cool and let her talk even though my insides were falling apart as she justified it in so many ways. He is a fireman and told her there are a number of new guys at his station who are going to be buying houses and he can get her a bunch of business (she is a realtor).

I listened and told her that what she was doing was hurting me immensely, regardless of whether it was right or wrong. I gave her the example of strip clubs. She is vehemently opposed to any man, especially a married man, visiting those places. I have never been inside one, but I asked her to think about how she'd feel if I started going to them with buddies. That it might be innocent fun with the guys but just the fact that me going would hurt her would be enough for me to not go, simply because protecting her from hurt is my number one priority. She replied that would be an entirely different situation.

Then she went on about what I call her "broken wing syndrome". She is the most caring and sympathetic person I have ever met. Once a cat was hit on the road and I stopped and she jumped out and held and comforted that cat for 1/2 hour as it died. That's just who she is and she told me how horrible this guy had it and how she wouldn't be able to live with herself if she just abandoned him in his time of need. Then she pulled out an email she printed. It was an email from him to his wife that he showed her on his computer the day she was at his house and it paints a truly rotten picture. Supposedly, he is living in the basement, his W controls everything about him to the point of giving him an allowance, etc. Blah, blah, blah.

At that point I had an idea and I told her that after reading the email, I couldn't believe what the poor guy was going through and she was probably right and he needed all the friends he could get so why don't we have him over, We could help him together and I could give him some advice from a man's point of view. Heck we could have he AND his wife over. We could help them get through their rough spot and they would see what a loving marriage was really like. The look on her face when I said that screamed just one thing - BUSTED! She stammered about how he had lots of males friends, just needed female perspective and on and on.

The conversation went downhill from there to the point where I asked her if they slept together. The only answer I got was a slap in the face and her storming off to bed. Neither of us have ever even lifted a hand to the other. I have been hit before and I've broken many bones in my life, but I have never felt the kind of pain that slap caused. I left the house, jumped on my bike and hit the road. I had the bike over 100 mph before I got a grip and stopped. I am the most safety conscious rider in the world and here I was riding like a madman with no gear on. I can't do that anymore. My kids need me too much no matter what happens.

I don't know where to go from here. I do know that I have to find out exactly where things stand with her and the POSOM so GPS, VAR and anything else anyone can suggest for a start. I need a plan and I have to find the strength to make it and follow it. I just have such a hard time thinking about what-if's. I know I need solid information before I go forward but my mind is running in overdrive and it's hard to think clearly

If you still have it, take the email she gave you and send it to OM's wife.

Expose to OM's wife. That will be the beginning of the end of this.

Her slap was way out of line.

You need to keep your cool now more than ever. You did something I was going to suggest to you as far as suggesting you both speak with him.

This is an emotional affair. She is justifying it to you. The analogy of a strip club isn�t one I would use. The fact that you were both cheated on is a better example.

Get a VAR and put it in her car. That will reveal much.

Can you get into her emails? Could you afford a PI?

Know this: She�s wrong. You�re right.

I know this sucks massively. Keep you cool as much as possible. Think James Bond when the blood pressure starts rising. The mental image will help.

I say this to you as a man who completely lost his self control when going through this. I regret not keeping my cool the most. Try to find a way to disconnect your emotions from your actions. Try to find a way to kill the despair you fell. Pretend she�s a stranger, because right now she is.