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Anna, yeah...that letter...you are right. It is NOT a good Plan B letter.
OTH...
it is a simply fabulous letter to help you boost your own sense of self-worth--which you DESERVE!
Frankly, if you are positive, no doubt, no way in h**l you will change your mind, gonna divorce him, then I wld say to h**l with it and send it anyway. (I stipulate of course this is not MB and I am a total novice at MB and am still flying by the seat of my pants)
however...
if you feel you might still want this marriage, yeah, best to just keep it to read to yourself :o)
ETA: I LOVE your closing line
Last edited by InvincibleMe; 07/14/10 05:00 AM.
BW (me): 36
WH: 30
M: 07/14/03; together~9yrs
Plan B: 07/13/10; NC broken by me 07/25/10
D-Day: 08/07/10
08/11/10: Plan B/D--can't bring myself to file without having a panic attack.
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Anna,
His email to you was the other side of the vicious circle. He has been intimidating and abusive to try to get what he wants and you have resisted. Now, he is trying to put some sugar and spice on the turd to get you accept it. At the end of the day it's all about manipulation. He just wants to get what he wants and he will use any means to do so. It's the old carrot and stick but it's being used by the abuser on you instead. You do realize this right? You do realize that even if he agreed to be O&H and give all passwords, etc. that it would be short lived? My guess is that he will agree to virtually anything right now because he feels you slipping away. He is losing ocntrol and it's making him crazy. Don't fall for this manipulation. Remain strong.
My suggestions would be to not respond to him at all. I have to admit that I like your letter and I think it did alot of good for your own self-esteem and strength to write it but I would not send it. No response is what is called for here. That is excruciating for a manipulator.
Let him wonder. He's left you in that position enough times hasn't he?
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Anna, I'm no expert, but, I think he's just scared he's about to lose his favorite punching bag. You. He's trying to reel you back in and will say anything to do so. What has changed between now and his last communication? Nothing but you seeming more determined to leave him.
That's not enough.
I'd send the letter, but I'm impulsive like that - it may be best to just let it lie - and not respond.
Continue on with your proceedings.
You should not consider giving this relationship another chance until you have seen consistent, long term, behavioral changes in his ACTIONS. Ignore anything he may say.
Me & DH: 28 Married 8/20/05 1DD, 9 mo. Just Lookin' and Learnin' HIYA!
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SEND IT!  It will give him an awesome slap in the face!!
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I disagree with sapphire.
Sending it will do nothing to change him or his behavior.
You cannot reason with a manipulator. He will use it to try to hone in on what is that you want and then offer that to you to try to get you back in the fold.
He will not feel a slap in the face. He will probably explode back at you as he moves to the other end of the spectrum of control and manipulation.
Sending the letter gets you nothing.
Not responding and leaving him to wonder is actually the ultimate torture for a abuser and a manipulator. He wants and needs the drama. Don't give it to him.
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I agree with mindshare on this one. As great as the letter is, and as empowering as it feels, I think you come out more ahead if you ignore his latest missive and focus on your plan.
FWIW, I also can see your H being angry and lashing out if you send him the letter - and if you want a clean break, as quickly as possible, with your D, then you might be asking for trouble w/ the letter.
Also agree that your H will feel more by you completely ignoring him than by you entering back into the push-and-pull manipulation cycle he's got you on.
He needs to hit bottom. You need to protect yourself.
*Disclaimer: I don't have much experience with situations like this, but I will share my thoughts on the matter and hope some of it helps.
Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
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Sending the letter gets you nothing. Actually it will, it will give her a chance to let him know exactly what she is feeling. I was not the only one that said send the letter as well if his next email is nasty and mean, then Ana that is your evidence that he will never change, and I would not respond to him anymore. Who ever this man is Ana, he is very dangerous, and I agree with mindshare when he says... "His email to you was the other side of the vicious circle. He has been intimidating and abusive to try to get what he wants and you have resisted."
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Sapphire, why does he need to know what she is feeling? The fact that he's contacting her in the pseudo-contrite manner that he is suggests that he knows he might've gone too far with her. He knows she's not feeling all warm and fuzzy towards him right now.
I can see how sending the letter is a feel-good action, and how it does feel empowering. But I think a wiser course here is to disengage. Remove herself from the cycle.
Sorry, anna, talking about you like you're not here!
Again, I'm not experienced with this, these are only my impressions.
Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
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I said I'd send the letter - but I didn't say that was a good thing to do. I, rationally, agree with mindshare. She cannot allow herself to get sucked back into his abuse. More communication with her husband at this point allows him more opportunity to manipulate her emotions. Actually it will, it will give her a chance to let him know exactly what she is feeling. Proceeding with the divorce will leave him no doubt of how she is feeling. She could craft another letter. A true Plan B letter to give him in the near future, laying out her needs for recovery. If she decides she may want to recover down the road. But she needs to protect herself right now. He needs to hit bottom. He's drug her around and put her through too much already.
Me & DH: 28 Married 8/20/05 1DD, 9 mo. Just Lookin' and Learnin' HIYA!
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Anne,
Keep your email for yourself. Anytime you feel like you want to contact WH re-read that email you composed. It will help keep you focused on what you need to help yourself. It will continue to empower you each time you read it.
How do I know, I wrote a journal for myself when I was getting out of my abusive relationship. Years later, during a low point, I came across those writings again and boy did that rock my world. I was able to see how far I had come and was even more empowered by that.
So my advice is to print out the email you wrote and stick it in a favorite book. It will find its way back to you when you need it.
As far as your WH's email.... He is playing yo-yo with you. Since bullying you did not work, he is now trying to promise you the world. HE WILL NOT DELIVER THAT PROMISE. Nothing has changed. Ignore his email. If you feel like you need to respond, simply email him the time/date/location of the divorce proceeding. Nothing more.
Me - BS Him - WS Discovery 3/26/10 NC letter mailed 5/27/10 NC letter recieved 5/29/10 My Thread Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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The fact that he's contacting her in the pseudo-contrite manner that he is suggests that he knows he might've gone too far with her. He knows she's not feeling all warm and fuzzy towards him right now. Exactly my point Mrs. V!!! I agree 100%! I think that writing the letter was very therapeutic and a good thing for Anna to do. I just see no value at all in sending it. I can pretty much guarantee that Anna has already said these things to him in the past and it hasn't mattered. It hasn't changed him before and it won't now. It just gives him his 'fix' of drama and it keeps him in the cycle of trying to push her buttons and manipulate. His response will certainly be hurtful and abusive. Why invite more of that? I'll say it again. Not responding will be absolute torture for him. Let him squirm.
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Anna -
Just a few comments from a newb.
- Reading your story I can't describe how sad I felt.
- Also felt so embarrassed for your husband. The fact that there are people in this world who can act like that - and think it's ok is absolutely dumbfounding
- I sense an awful lot of strength in your posts. I think in the coming months / years - you are really going to surprise yourself with how strong, competent, and together you become.
- I get that you're very much looking forward to having a family. I totally understand that. But go back and read your initial post here - and then picture what kind of a father this man would be. Picture how much worse he might get when there is a child in the mix - and he has a brand new tool for controlling you....the baby; the baby's future; the baby's happiness; etc; etc; etc.
You are getting some great advice from people - and you really seem to be considering it - so keep it up! you're doing great!
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The appointment with the lawyer is on Thursday. Good luck with the lawyer on Thursday!! Do you have someone coming with you for support? I have never been to a lawyer, but I would make sure I have all the paperwork that is needed.
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Write the letter, but I don't see a need to send it. Maybe post it here if you want.
Just had a spat with saph's sister. Long story short; the focus was on how we were going to draw names for christmas this year. After trying to defend my wife and kids she began posting malicious things against us and the rest of saphs family, and saph's sister disowned her whole family over something so stupid.
The moral of the story? : When you wrestle with pigs, you get dirty (pigs like to roll in their own poop).
Good luck with the lawyer, spell out exataly what you want. Meaning I want to start the divorce but reserve the right to save my family, or whatever it is you think you want.
Last edited by Wheels_spinning; 07/14/10 10:07 AM.
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His email to you was the other side of the vicious circle. He has been intimidating and abusive to try to get what he wants and you have resisted. Now, he is trying to put some sugar and spice on the turd to get you accept it. At the end of the day it's all about manipulation. He just wants to get what he wants and he will use any means to do so. It's the old carrot and stick but it's being used by the abuser on you instead. You do realize this right?
You do realize that even if he agreed to be O&H and give all passwords, etc. that it would be short lived? My guess is that he will agree to virtually anything right now because he feels you slipping away. He is losing ocntrol and it's making him crazy. Don't fall for this manipulation. Remain strong. I don't think it's all as conscious and deliberate as that... I think he really doesn't fully understand what he is doing. My IC says that he lacks insight into his own behavior and is incapable of empathy... probably from the car accident he was in 14 years ago, where he suffered extensive brain damage and underwent a total personality change. He was also diagnosed as schizoaffective when he was 15, he comes from a background of a controlling and manipulative mother, and his culture is one that values face and privacy, not openness. So, I don't think he's calculating the way you all describe him--he just isn't. That doesn't mean that the behavior is tolerable. It just means that he's clueless. I do think it would be short-lived, not because he is deliberately "trying" to suck me in and create control, but just because real change doesn't come without some sort of massive shift in perspective. He doesn't have that. It's all just temporary. He will make an honest effort and then fall back into the old patterns. Let him wonder. He's left you in that position enough times hasn't he? Ha. It does sort of feel poetic that way.
Anna
BS: 30
WH: 37
Married 7 years, together 10
No children
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I strongly suggest you stop making excuses for his behavior or defending it. Ask yourself why you feel the need to defend his behavior or excuse it? It's called enablement.
There is no point in trying to blame it on a car accident, his upbringing, his culture, etc. An abuser is an abuser. He can end the cycle of abuse but he isn't doing it. You can argue whether his actions are intentional or not but it really doesn't matter. He is trying to manipulate you to get what he wants.
Why does society feel a need to always find an excuse or a condition or a label to explain bad behavior? Rhetorical question of course....
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Anna,
His email to you was the other side of the vicious circle. He has been intimidating and abusive to try to get what he wants and you have resisted. Now, he is trying to put some sugar and spice on the turd to get you accept it. At the end of the day it's all about manipulation. He just wants to get what he wants and he will use any means to do so. It's the old carrot and stick but it's being used by the abuser on you instead. You do realize this right? You do realize that even if he agreed to be O&H and give all passwords, etc. that it would be short lived? My guess is that he will agree to virtually anything right now because he feels you slipping away. He is losing ocntrol and it's making him crazy. Don't fall for this manipulation. Remain strong.
My suggestions would be to not respond to him at all. I have to admit that I like your letter and I think it did alot of good for your own self-esteem and strength to write it but I would not send it. No response is what is called for here. That is excruciating for a manipulator.
Let him wonder. He's left you in that position enough times hasn't he? I agree 100%. I bet once it sinks in that he can't control her he will be seething with anger. Anna you have a rocky road ahead, stay strong.
W (me) 44
H 43
Married 19 years
DS 17
DS 15
DD 13
DD 8
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I strongly suggest you stop making excuses for his behavior or defending it. Ask yourself why you feel the need to defend his behavior or excuse it? It's called enablement.
There is no point in trying to blame it on a car accident, his upbringing, his culture, etc. An abuser is an abuser. He can end the cycle of abuse but he isn't doing it. You can argue whether his actions are intentional or not but it really doesn't matter. He is trying to manipulate you to get what he wants.
Why does society feel a need to always find an excuse or a condition or a label to explain bad behavior? Rhetorical question of course.... That's bull. I'm not defending it. I'm saying that it's wrong to paint it as this deliberate and calculating, and there are real reasons why he has trouble seeing his own behavior for what it is. That doesn't mean the behavior is acceptable. Just because I'm fed up and leaving doesn't mean I'm going to create a false world and pretend that he is the devil or that he has motivations that I don't think he has. That's not honest or helpful either. The goal is to see reality for what it is, not create some caricature. It isn't defending someone to say that false assumptions aren't helpful, both because it's not true and because it makes all the subsequent advice (because it's based on things that are not true) feel like it's bad advice that doesn't apply to me. Not every situation is identical.
Last edited by anna7900; 07/14/10 02:22 PM.
Anna
BS: 30
WH: 37
Married 7 years, together 10
No children
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"Hey,
I just wanted to tell you that no matter what happens, I still love you. I *always* will. You are the person I care about most in my life. You are the reason I have for living. When we end things, I don't intend on actually moving on. My life would be over as I know it. When we see the lawyer, honestly I don't really care about what to settle. I only really wanted your things here until that happens because I feel like part of you is here.
I don't know what to say anymore. All I wanted was for you to love me back. All I wanted was for you to be affectionate and considerate towards me. That's all I really wanted.
I was looking forward to live together again.
I was looking forward to visiting Barcelona together.
I was looking forward to having children together.
I was looking forward to being a family and being the stereotypical happy family.
I was looking forward to moving to our new permanent home.
I realize that the past few days haven't been good for either of us. I'm sorry I got upset at you. I think we got lax with the book again - we haven't built it up as a habit, which we should have done. But still, I'm telling you that I'm sorry. I'm telling you that I'll be considerate towards your feelings and try to understand you, particularly during times of conflict. Even when we end things, I'll try the best I can.
I think you've made your decision already and maybe it's for the best. Maybe we have issues that can't be fixed. Still, I wanted to tell you that I'm sorry and that I'll always love you. Please let me know when the appointment will be.
Love, WH" This is not an apology letter. This is a letter about what HE wants.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Schoolbus, would you spell it out for me?
Anna
BS: 30
WH: 37
Married 7 years, together 10
No children
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