Good luck to you Anna!

Anna:

Regarding your letter, I don't know that it is Plan B or Plan D.


I do know it is


Plan FU.


If you send it, send it AFTER taking out any curse words. That is the only editing I would make.

It is not about "letting him know how you feel", and it is not about "revenge" and it is not about "venting".

It is about saying what you want to say, without holding anything back, and WITHOUT APOLOGY.

The fallout is that he will be angry.


You do have to understand one thing, however. He will not "get it". It will make no difference whatsoever in how he thinks, what he feels, or what he does with regard to other women.

It will only make him angrier.




His so-called apology letter is temporary at best. He will not stay in that frame of mind for long.

SB

SB I think Anna was asking for you to spell out for her why you don't think his letter was an apology letter.

Yeah, I was. Thanks suamico.

But I do agree he won't stay in this frame of mind for long.

I have a close friend who has been in an (emotionally) abusive relationship. Different than yours but I do see some similarities.

The thing is, as many times as she says it isn't what she wants and she has tried to end it, she seems to thrive off the push/pull dynamic. She wants to discuss/analyze things that he has said to her, texted her, why he behaves this way, etc, even when she says it's over.

I am not a professional and don't know what this is called, but it almost seems like an addiction.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is IMHO you need to go NC with him, the same way we advise waywards to go NC with their OP...in order to move on with your life. No discussing WHY he does this, his childhood, etc...this is going to keep you stuck...

Hey, In an apology letter, it is rare to open with a generic "Hey" and not a sincerity or endearment such as "My loving wife" or "Dearest Anna". "Hey" is quite ridiculously casual for an apology letter. It is insincere and distancing, also placing an almost humorous air to the letter.



I just wanted to tell you that no matter what happens This allows for a change of mind. , I still love you. I *always* will. The asterisks are meant to draw attention to the word "always", and to set it apart -in this case it has reduced the word, not enhanced it, removing the sincerity, and making the phrase's cliche notable. You are the person I care about most in my life. You are the reason I have for living. When we end things, I don't intend on actually moving on. Two things here: 1. He uses the term "when" we end things - which is HIS intention. 2. there is the veiled threat of stalking. My life would be over as I know it. An interesting turn of phrase - "as I know it. Not just..."My life would be over". He again reduces the phrase, and makes it insincere. When we see the lawyer, honestly I don't really care about what to settle. I only really wanted your things here until that happens because I feel like part of you is here. There are issues of control here - control over your things, and you. He states what HE wants, and the focus in this sentence is HIM. You need to see that.

I don't know what to say anymore. All I wanted was for you to love me back. All I wanted was for you to be affectionate and considerate towards me. He again states what he wants. But this is more about control over you, so that you meet his needs...it has nothing to do with his apologizing. That's all I really wanted.
again, what HE wants.



The third paragraph. Often the heart of the meaning of letters...let's see what he has to say:
I was looking forward to live together again.
I was looking forward to visiting Barcelona together.
I was looking forward to having children together.
I was looking forward to being a family and being the stereotypical happy family.
I was looking forward to moving to our new permanent home.

Wow. Looks to me like...manipulation, guilting you about some things that the two of you probably talked about once upon a time. Things you two probably "wanted" as a couple? Is this about an apology? Nope. It is about manipulating you back where HE WANTS YOU.

I realize that the past few days haven't been good for either of us. I'm sorry I got upset at you. I think we got lax with the book again - we haven't built it up as a habit, which we should have done. Did he take any blame here, or did he agree to hand over blame to you in some sort of 50/50 deal? But still, I'm telling you that I'm sorry. Ahhh, the "but". This sentence is what kills the apology! He says, "Ok, I said everything above, and now, look, I see that YOU have half the blame, and *I* will even take some of the blame and I will go ahead and apologize. EVEN THOUGH my belief is that YOU should be the one apologizing." The "but" removes his concession regarding the blame he has taken, his "seeing his half" of the blame that he appears to agree to in the 50/50 deal immediately preceeding this statement. I'm telling you that I'll be considerate towards your feelings and try I like that he offers to "try" to understand you. Again, he leaves himself an out, so that he can say that he "tried". to understand you, particularly during times of conflict. Even when we end things, I'll try the best I can.

I think you've made your decision already and maybe it's for the best. Maybe we have issues that can't be fixed. Still, I wanted to tell you that I'm sorry and that I'll always love you. Please let me know when the appointment will be. It is only here that he seems to realize that you are done, and that he knows his letter will not work. He probably knows because it is not written with any sincerity. He is somewhat resigned to a divorce in this letter, as though it ids a done deal for him. The overall tone of the letter is not an apology - it is a manipulation.

Love, WH"

Does that help, Anna?

That is what I saw SB.
Anna,
Even if you don't see what we see please keep an open mind to the idea that you are too close to the situation to see it for what it is.

Thanks, SB.

What should I actually send back to him? (A question not just for SB, but for everyone.)

My vote: nothing.

Meet the lawyers as planned.

If you are open to repairing the marriage begin drafting a Plan B letter to give him. Set the standards for recovery VERY high. Look at ACTION not words.

You need to protect yourself from his manipulation and abuse.

Anna,

Just send him the date and time of the appointment you need him at. Nothing more.

This will be your best bet as he can not twist anything you say to try to manipulate you.

Yes I agree with the others he is trying to manipulate you. If you would like some proof, look at the text msgs he sent you the other day and then re-read schoolbus' translation of his last email.

I agree, just send him the court date, time and location. NOTHING else. I am pretty sure he will e-mail or call you to find out what you thought of his apology letter. Ignore his attempts to engage you. You only have one day until the appointment.
I thought the text messages were way over the top. Anna, you know that sick feeling you get when he try's to manipulate you? When you get that feeling you have to realize you feel that way because you know it is wrong. The conversation can not continue to spiral out of control if you don't respond. Then he will just talking to himself.

Send only the date and time of the meeting. Get ready for some more anger. He is going to act like a child after you have taken away his favourite new toy.

I think I am willing to save my marriage. What do I say in my Plan B letter? It's not about ending an affair.

If you are truly willing to try to save your marriage, then you will need to have some conditions ready. What would your H have to do to make this marriage work?

Why don't you give it a go with a letter and we will edit it out. You should include some happy memories and how you have been hurt in these past few months(years?). What conditions you would need met before you would be willing to communicate with your WH again.

Abusers do not recover well, Anna. Manipulators simply take your list of conditions and put on the show to reel you back in and then everything goes back to what it was.

I hate to see you lose the advantage of youth to start over with someone who is not personality disordered/mentally ill.

Have you considered that your Plan B recovery conditions would need to include a full mental health diagnostic battery and intense therapy for him?

Plan A never works on an abuser. Plan B simply challenges them to break down your protective walls and can endanger you more.

I'm sorry Anna. I simply believe Plan D is the only way to insure your safety.

If he were to ask what he needs to do to get you back, and you said, a thorough and complete check up from the neck up, then serious treatment, I'm thinking he would not give your request a serious thought on the hope for the mildest reaction - his strongest reaction may be something on the abuse scale you've never seen before. Just saying.

And the only hope your marriage has is if he does just that. Get serious and long term behavioral modification therapy that gets down to the way he thinks about life. I don't think he has it in him. He'll move on to an easier target before he does.

It's kinda like this.....

Asking your WS go to MC, and they go JUST so you can be happy that they are "trying" to fix the marriage, but in reality all the WS is doing is buying them some more time to be married because they want both worlds, a wife, and a g/f.

When we were going to MC I only wanted to do is so wheels can see that I was "trying" to fix the marriage, but guess what? I didn't care for the MC, I lied to the MC TOO! MC doesn't work if the WS doesn't want it to work. And trust me we are all like that!

Your husband will look at the conditions, and say he will do them, but in his mind he is laughing because he knows it is buying him some more time with you.

Sweetie, actions speaks louder then words!

I personally believe that Anna should go straight to Plan D, thing is, SHE doesn't want to.

Maybe some time in Plan B will give her a clearer head and she will be able to determine what SHE really wants and needs. There is a lot of strength you get while in Plan B and I am helping her with what she wants to do.

Anna, I will say that I was SHOCKED to read that you wanted to give your marriage another shot. I am not SURPRISED, though. In that end, I will help you with what you have chosen, although it goes against what I would do. Throw your Plan B letter up here and we'll have a look at it for you. Just remember to remove real names and paces.

I agree with KA's requirements (among others) for recovery.

I also feel you should continue with the D. You can give him the Plan B letter after the D is finalized if you want. Let him know if he really is interested in keeping you so much, this is what it would take to get you back (no guarantee's you'll want to get back together whenever he shapes up though), but for now you must protect yourself and break free of him.

See, he has to change because he recognizes that these changes are good and necessary for a healthy relationship. He has to change because he WANTS to change, not out of fear of losing you. So, he has to lose you. The current dynamic is as not good for him as it is for you. He is not capable, now, of the true remorse needed to execute a change. You sticking around, letting him jerk you around, letting him slip that leash back around you - is just as detrimental to his personal development as it is to yours.

Let him go. Let him CHOSE to improve himself. If you want, crack a door open for him to come back if you WANT him to (a Plan B letter).

My money is on him not really ever changing. He said he'd never give you up, but that's just a manipulation to get you back.

Go through with the D. For both your goods.

I told myself I wouldn't post to you again because I don't think that you are getting real with yourself and you are enabling an abuser. The advice here from a wide range of people seems to be pretty consistent. There is very little chance he will change. Plan D is in order so you can get on to that life you want. Plan B is a waste of time here in my opinion and keeps you from where you really want to go.

Ok. I'm out. But, one last thing I just have to get off of my chest. PLEASE DO NOT GET PREGNANT AND HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS ABUSER!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I hate to think of more then you getting abused (and I am on your side even though you don't see it) is some poor innocent children getting abused because you can bet your life that he will abuse them too.