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Not sure if this qualifies as a Recovery question or not, but figured I'd post it to the high-traffic board:

Lately I've seen a lot of references to the "2-year mark," a point in time that seems to be a particular low on the recovery rollercoaster.

Does something like that exist in most/all situations?

How long-lasting are those feelings?

We are just a couple of months shy of 2 years post D-day. I'd describe our "recovery" as... neither of us pushing to get back up the hill on the rollercoaster. My BH (and, subsequently, I) hit a real bad patch a few weeks back, and that seems to have stuck. He said he couldn't continue w/ the relationship, and I finally stopped fighting him for it.

I feel like that's giving up.

I have since been trying to operate w/ no hope. But now this 2-year idea is planting seeds. Argh.


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This is a one day at a time endeavor!

This is a process, not an event!

When I wake up every morning, I pray WITH my wife and I pray FOR my wife. She does the same in return.

We re-commit to each other every day, and when necessary we use words. Actions are what count! Care and Protection!

We purpose to care for and protect each other, even when we may not "feel" like it.

One month, one year, two years, five years........ it's still a narrow path that you must purpose to stay on, or you will fall off.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Thanks for the reminder, tst/HPB. I think he and I are both doing that - exercising care and protection, it just seems like the heart has gone out of it.

Also, I think I should point out that my BH has never recommitted to the M - it's been a cautious approach to "we'll try and see what happens" (as opposed to "married at (almost) all costs"). With that in mind, I notice I get down a lot more - because it seems like every down time is the last time.

And, also, I think this last one really was.

Sorry, excuse me while I try to sleep/eat/buy my way out of depression.


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Ms V,

Interesting.

For a view from the other side of the canyon -

I see a great deal of me in your H. I too came to a point where I simply did not much want to be married to a woman who could do what she did.

In essence I finally realized the truth of JLs words to you:

There are no "I'll make this up to you", there is no "I want my life back", there is simply NOW and the FUTURE. It is up to both of you to make now good, and the future better.

In the end it did not matter she was not doing it any more. Nor that she seemed (who knows what passes for truth in the mind of a former adulterer) to be sorry. It was all me. It took me almost five years past the second D-Day of the VLTA to get to this point, and I have spent the past couple of years planning and organizing what best to do for everyone involved. I worried about her quite a bit, but I am moving on.

I decided I would rather make an end to the past in its entirety and start life over anew without her. I decided I will do exactly what JL wrote to you, but for myself make a new future in which there is no adulteress, neither current nor former, to distract my thoughts. Perhaps I grew too tired of knowing what she had done, knowing the lie she made me live for so long. Perhaps I am just a quitter. But the past became too heavy for me to carry any more. I am setting it down and moving away from it and all that reminds me of it.

I dont think MB has any cure for what is inside me. I simply am not going to get over it. As you write, The A taints everything. It taints everything inside me, actually. So I am moving on.

It is working out quite well for me. Perhaps not for her, but then she can always find another OM if she wants to. It seems to have been pretty easy for her to meet her OM last time, and there are plenty of OMs to meet out there for wives already experienced in adultery, so I dont worry too much about her any more.

I wish your H joy. Not necessarily happiness. Happiness was never promised us. So I wish him joy. What do you wish him?

Good luck to you too.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Interesting indeed, Aphelion. It's almost poetic, your posting - you were one of the early posters on my first thread here on the boards, ( here ).

I agree wholeheartedly. Your response is almost identical to what my BH has been feeling/articulating. And I can appreciate the need to just be away from it all. For both you and my BH.

I have finally come to the point where I can accept that. I still don't like it, and I still get despondent and wish things were different - but I gave up my right to complain, didn't I?

Thank you for referencing JL's advice, too. There is no making it up. There is no wishing so hard it actually changes the past. It's just how we handle things moving foward.

Hm. I guess the upswing from depression is melancholy musing?


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Almost forgot to answer your question, Aphelion:

I wish my BH peace. And fulfillment. And I can accept that he may need to find those things without me.


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This clean and complete starting over is indeed promising to be peaceful and fulfilling.

I have the resources to be able to pursue pretty much any interest I find fulfilling.

Not having a FWW to wonder and worry about (as Dr Harley says, no one should trust their spouse unconditionally) brings peace all by itself.

As your earlier post implies re your H, divorce is not going to free me to remarry. I will not be able to marry again in the church. But not having to wonder about marriage, or dating or anything to do with relationships and probable cheating in general is also peaceful.

It took me these fast few years to get to this point, but it is very good to know I do not need anyone else to live a fulfilling life.

Life is looking better to me than it has in a long, long time. I hope the same for your BH.

Actually, I hope the same to you too. But, I have no idea how an adulterer could ever go about it.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
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My opinion, for what it's worth Mrs. V, is that you continue to work toward recovery if/until your DH files for divorce. In the absence of that, or abuse, you keep going.

It sounds like you are looking for someone to tell you it's ok to stop working, to give up.


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Med school is a breeding ground for A, along with hospitals and clinics.

Seen it, saw the devistation. One woman's son, then husband committed suicide because of her choice to A. In our class alone I witnessed almost every type of A, from married couples in our class having A with other classmates to other classmates S. You name it.

Then go to residency and you want to puke because it made school look like tryouts for A fantasy land.

Mrs. V,

You are one of them and to think for some reason you can go back and have an A proof M is simply insane thinking, ie. "doing the same thing and expecting different results".

I am sorry you are in this situation and believe your remorse, but you can move across the country or world and go to any school you choose thinking it will be different. But when you are in the same class day after day and nights studying, labs, crunching for tests USMLE for years it will happen and did happen to you.

My W wishes she could turn back the clock to start over. It's been 8 years and for the most part the memory isn't there, but I still do not trust her. She is now finding that supporting me (our student loans were 250k together) is the best way to heal me. At times I get very frustrated still. She is SAHM and never practiced for the most part, but she is beginning to become the traditional homemaker (which neither one wanted her to be in the beginning) and we have the best kids in the world. Our bumpy M was the result of both of us with her A thrown in, but her support has been better than her having a 6 figure income even though I work 50+ hours.

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Originally Posted By: Aphelion
This clean and complete starting over is indeed promising to be peaceful and fulfilling.

...

Life is looking better to me than it has in a long, long time.


I am glad. I am sad the M was not recoverable (because obviously I have a vested interest in seeing marriages recover after infidelity), but glad you as the BS are feeling good about life again.

Interesting. Up until this last low on the rollercoaster, it had been quite a bit easier expressing such sentiments to other BSs than to my own BH - because that would be admitting maybe having me in his life wasn't what was best for him. (Ha, that's rich, right? I think I've clearly proven having me in his life has been nothing but bad!)

Originally Posted By: Aphelion
But, I have no idea how an adulterer could ever go about it.


Me neither.


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Originally Posted By: silentlucidity
My opinion, for what it's worth Mrs. V, is that you continue to work toward recovery if/until your DH files for divorce. In the absence of that, or abuse, you keep going.


This is what I am planning/doing, yes. I just need to not be so darn hopeful - that really sends me into a tailspin when reality comes crashing down around me.

Originally Posted By: silentlucidity
It sounds like you are looking for someone to tell you it's ok to stop working, to give up.


I see how my words could read like that. However, that's very much not the case. I think I'm looking for more of that pesky hope. I think I'm looking for others who have experienced the different facets of infidelity to sound off on.

Re: getting an out, though - my BH has given me innumerable outs, telling me I can leave, I can walk away, and not understanding how doing so is not more appealing than staying in a relationship where everything is tainted, where I'm not free to go after OMs, etc.

I'll tell you what I have told him: I don't want an out. My A says otherwise, but with my head on straight and a complete change in how I view M, I don't want anything else.

And therein lies the problem. I don't want anything else, but he does.


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Originally Posted By: themud

My W wishes she could turn back the clock to start over. It's been 8 years and for the most part the memory isn't there, but I still do not trust her. She is now finding that supporting me (our student loans were 250k together) is the best way to heal me. At times I get very frustrated still. She is SAHM and never practiced for the most part, but she is beginning to become the traditional homemaker (which neither one wanted her to be in the beginning) and we have the best kids in the world. Our bumpy M was the result of both of us with her A thrown in, but her support has been better than her having a 6 figure income even though I work 50+ hours.


Interesting that you say this. For us, I think the opposite is becoming true. I am a homemaker/SAHM, and that's how I would love for things to continue. However, that puts the onus on my BH to shoulder the financial burden, the job stress, and not see the rewards that I get to see daily - fun with our kids, memories, making a home.

If med school is what he needs me to do, if that gives our M a better shot, then I'm willing to do it. It isn't quite the same as before - this time I have EPs, I have nuked former lives on my hands, and a trial-by-fire understanding of what I need to do to protect my BH and our M, and who I need to be.


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Originally Posted By: Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted By: themud

My W wishes she could turn back the clock to start over. It's been 8 years and for the most part the memory isn't there, but I still do not trust her. She is now finding that supporting me (our student loans were 250k together) is the best way to heal me. At times I get very frustrated still. She is SAHM and never practiced for the most part, but she is beginning to become the traditional homemaker (which neither one wanted her to be in the beginning) and we have the best kids in the world. Our bumpy M was the result of both of us with her A thrown in, but her support has been better than her having a 6 figure income even though I work 50+ hours.


Interesting that you say this. For us, I think the opposite is becoming true. I am a homemaker/SAHM, and that's how I would love for things to continue. However, that puts the onus on my BH to shoulder the financial burden, the job stress, and not see the rewards that I get to see daily - fun with our kids, memories, making a home.

If med school is what he needs me to do, if that gives our M a better shot, then I'm willing to do it. It isn't quite the same as before - this time I have EPs, I have nuked former lives on my hands, and a trial-by-fire understanding of what I need to do to protect my BH and our M, and who I need to be.


Med school will only create more stress for your BH IMO. You can still find other employment if FS is important to him.


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Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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Hmm. I wonder if this is, maybe subconsciously for him, a self-fulfilling prophecy? Thinking "Well, she's bound to find someone else, she's going to ditch me, I can't depend on her for anything anyway" - that if I go to med school, well, that will all happen? So he doesn't need to commit?

Eh, I don't think that's right. I think it does give him reason to stay protected, but I don't think that's what's driving him. I guess psych stuff is not the concern, though. It's finding a way out of an impossible situation.


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BH may be stressed out no matter what you do. A BS can often feel like they are getting the raw end of the deal no matter what decision is made...that is just the nature of the beast. He may see med school as an escape for you and resentful about you becoming a doctor at his expense. I don't know what is in his head but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of back and forth.

Have you asked him specifically what you can do to help lower his stress with the hours he works? I wouldn't bring up med school.


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Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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b_r - thanks for the insight, and for the BS experience. I think you're right about the back and forth.

The back and forth does make it more difficult to wrap my head around one solution. FS is important to him - losing the financial stability we currently have, and the concurrent ability to provide well for the kids, is keeping him at his current job. He knows, though, that *just* this job is not going to fulfill him. He's not sure if he'll get that elsewhere, but thinks it's worth a shot. So it's not just about the stress, it's about getting something good back in his life.

He's the one who brought up medical school as a way to ease some of the financial worry. The hours are good (once I get to actually practicing - admittedly a long, tough way to go), the pay is good. He also sees it as a way for me to be "taken care of" when he leaves the relationship for good.

I think I need to spend more time brainstorming other alternatives.

Thanks again for your insight, b_r -- I think your assessment is correct, that my BH definitely feels like he's gotten the raw end of the deal. I can't disagree, I'm just trying to make it not feel that way.


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Mrs. Vanilla - I don't remember reading if you are fully active in any specific faith or relationship with God.

You have reached the realization that no matter how well you live your life now, you have no power to remove the dagger from your husband's heart.

We are all sinners. And in that same way that you are experiencing the "permanence" of sin without an atonement, we are all doomed to that same reality once we get to see the magnitude of consequence of our secrets on those we love.

That permanence of consequence was driven home to me in a weird way when I saw "Sweet Charity" for the first time. She never gave a second thought to what she did for a living, until she met the love of her life. All this time, she had taken the easy way to money instead of working to get skills and studying and practicing and taking the menial jobs to work her way up. That route had been invisible until she saw that she was in a place that offended his soul and who she had really become made it impossible for him to reconcile who she was with what he had dreamed for his future wife.

"This kind goes not out except by fasting and prayer". That's the reality - you both need a power greater than yourselves. Your husband wants to heal. You want him to heal. You have done all that you can, but just as faith without works is dead, works without faith are also dead. You need a living faith, active and alive in spite of evidence that nothing is happening.

Your husband can't forgive because there is an unmet need. I believe it is a spiritual need for renewal.

I think the two of you need to fast and pray over the career change, and talk about it honestly and openly. Looking forward and not backward, what lifestyle and marriage would you like to have five years from now. Forget about what kind of path you need to be on to get there - the how shows up when you know what you want. I believe he doesn't really know what he wants. And I don't think you do either. Change is being avoided, yet change has been thrust upon you.

You might want to read "Who Moved My Cheese" and discuss how you adapt and find new cheese - a new marriage, a new life.


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The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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KA, thank you. I usually get a lot out of your posts, and this was no exception. I think you hit on a number of good points. And your "Sweet Charity" example puts into words the impossibility of these situations.

BH and I are religious, though you may be spot on with the idea about faith in spite of evidence that nothing is happening. I think I need to harmonize my idea of faith and not just things happening however I think is right or best, but faith and whatever happens.

Originally Posted By: KaylaAndy
Change is being avoided, yet change has been thrust upon you.


Originally Posted By: KaylaAndy
I believe he doesn't really know what he wants. And I don't think you do either.


Both true, I think.

I need to cogitate for a while now. And talk w/ my BH. Thank you.



Last edited by Mrs_Vanilla; 07/16/10 09:36 PM. Reason: messed up quotes!

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PS - This:

Originally Posted By: KaylaAndy
faith without works is dead


takes me back to my LDS days. That was some years ago, but that's in some ways a poignant throwback.


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Cool. I'm LDS. But I also like the inverse of that phrase in the Doctrine and Covenants Section 63: 11
Quote:
Yea, signs come by faith, unto mighty works, for without faith no man pleaseth God; and with whom God is angry he is not well pleased; wherefore, unto such he showeth no signs, only in wrath unto their condemnation.


Without faith, all of our works avail us NOTHING.

It reminds me that I have to trust God even though I can't see what might be changing in my life.

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