Even the 2X4s are bigger in Texas...

Mental note to self.... don't tick Melody off!

Yeah but mine is in metric.

JL

SaddestW

What you revealed about yourself with this comment, is that you have no faith in yourself as far as self control goes.

How many BSs on this forum were perfectly content with their marriages before the found out about their spouse's affair? How many were getting their needs met, just right? How many WSs were perfectly nice to their BSs before their affairs?

And yet - it's the wayward spouse who had the affair, not the BS. In some cases, the BS may just not gotten around to it yet. But for most, they were JUST as miserable, neglected and abused as the WS and yet DIDN'T have an affair.

The difference:

EPs

Personal integrity does not, must not, hinge on how others treat us.
If I am a person of integrity, I own my behavior. 100%.

A person of weak character and dubious integrity blames others for their behavior and mis-deeds.

If you truly believe adultery is wrong, you will not go down that path, no matter what.

I don't think it is possible for you to misconstrue the Harleys' Plan for Recovery with this video like the way you did w/ SAA. I'd advise you to watch the video in its entirety on the home page (the entire video is 30 mins, this is part 4 of the series on youtube). But at least pls watch the below clip starting at 4:57 (this is at the end of the video and a summation of the plan).

Steve Harley (beginning at 4:57):
"As you have just heard infidelity is an emotionally traumatic event. A marriage that has experienced infidelity has been severely injured and must be properly treated.

Can you treat the injury without the help of a coach or counselor? It is possible but very difficult because the actual treatment must be carried out by the one who had the affair. Unless the wayward spouse really understands the details of how to successfully treat the wound, I strongly advise against doing it on your own.

When looking for someone to help your marriage recovery successfully make sure the plan includes at least the following elements..."
1) NC
2) WS assumes FULL responsbility for their OWN actions
3) Reveal Details of the A at soonest appropriate time
4) Detailed Plan to Independently Prevent Reoccurence of another A (EPs)
5) Detailed Plan to Fall in Love & Stay in Love
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/user/MarriageBuilders#p/a/u/0/j3K_0Mte5Sc[/video]

SW, there is a LOT on these BOARDS. Not just the SAA board. You will learn things from EVERYTHING on this site. Go into ALL of the different places and see what there is to learn. There are THOUSANDS of pages of threads, I can't imagine that you have read ALL of them. A lot of the stories of the recovered people are on the recovered boards. Also, there are times when DrH has answered questions for others on the radio and on another board. Read all of that. The thing is, you can't pick and choose what you get. THIS is why the suggestion was made to you to get your WH here. He should at least read the material for himself. You can't possibly KNOW what would help him and to pick certain things would most definitely lead to confusion and a plan SW, not MB.

No one here wants you to leave. We are PRO-MARRIAGE. We BELIEVE in DRH and the MB-way. We KNOW that if MB is used in a marriage, that marriage can be made EXCEPTIONAL. The vets also KNOW what it takes to recover. Please listen. It is YOUR marriage and life at stake, not theirs. They have nothing to los but are choosing to help you anyways.

LOOK at how lucky you are. You have some of the heaviest hitters on this board advising you. BSs(myself included) would LOVE to have this individual attention paid to us by so many of the vets. It's like calling 9-11. Only call if you really need their help. If you don't want their help, you wasted the time that they could have spent helping someone who really needed it and WOULD listen. PLEASE LISTEN.

I am, however belatedly, working on a list of EP's and have run into a problem I haven't been able to find an answer to.

My H LOVES to hunt (it's a Texas thing). This is a biggie for me because I am a "hunting widow" and come September, he will be gone most weekends until Thanksgiving and after -- by spring turkey season surely things will be better or over. I want him to hunt -- it is the thing in his life that gives him the most joy (and a source of abandonment resentment for me, but that is on hold for now). What can I possibly offer to reassure him while he is gone so he gets the joy he should out of it?

And no, I can't go with him -- we have a 15 year old serious tennis player, and besides I hate everything about hunting. I'm going to suck it up and go with him a couple of times this year which I can tolerate because I now have a Kindle and the pages turning don't make any noise, but going with him every weekend is out of the question.

He travels SO much for work -- and now hunting on top -- I've run into a creative wall on how to address EP's in this context.

BTW -- I told him a bit about what was suggested to me as EP's. He has been in the software business for 15 years and had no idea what a keylogger was and no interest in installing one which is a good thing since I journal on my laptop and before you get all agitated, I get that the end goal is that he should be able to read my journal entries but we are way far away from that. Does a keylogger even track Word documents?

GPS -- his response was "why would I do that? You'd just take it as a challenge to get around it." The cell phone number thing doesn't bother him -- but it's starting to bother me a bit.

And don't jump all over me again. I'm mulling this over. My list of EP's is going to be my list -- the list of boundaries I want and need to put in place to make sure that he feels safe and that will eliminate triggers for me. I would like to post it if the reactivity to me here could be dialed down a bit. I'm trying.

I broke down and texted a friend today and deleted the messages so he wouldn't know I was talking to her -- just sharing with her the joys of being in the house 24 hours a day with a sullen 15 year old and and a high level of tension between me and my H. I'm putting in a second request for counseling from Steve. The response to my first request was lost in spam world. I didn't realize I could talk to him alone -- I thought it had to be both of us. I have some specific questions to my immediate situation which I will NOT post here as I am afraid the entire forum would go up in flames.

I saw on some thread that the Harley's don't advocate joint marriage counseling, but can't find a discussion on the site? Anyone direct me?

Anyone done the on-line program? It seems the perfect fit for us.

Any thoughts on the travel/hunting thing?

To my chagrin, I have read every post on this thread. I think I keep coming back because I am hoping for a breakthrough from you, sw.


Do or do not. There is no try. (Score one for Yoda!)

No, in all seriousness, let me say: work on your humility. If that statement right there just ticked you off, work on your humility even more. I mean this in no incendiary way, just speaking from experience. Take the hits here, mull them over, and work on your humility. Recovery is hard, and it's darn near impossible without a humble heart.


Just call.

To schedule an appointment with Steve Harley, you may use one of two options:

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639
or
e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com) an appointment request by completing the form below.
Appointments may be scheduled as early as 6:00am Central Time (GMT -06:00) and as late as 9:00pm Central Time Monday thru Thursday. Appointments may be scheduled 6:00am Central Time to 3:00pm Central Time on Friday, also.

See here .


Get over yourself already, okay? Doesn't matter if you're joking, you're blithely dismissing (not to mention downright denigrating) so much with that statement. This is a lot of work on everyone's behalf for you to just be going through the motions. (I'm including that it's a lot of work for you in that.) The sooner you accept that you are no different or better than any other adulterer here, and the sooner you realize that a number of people here actually know what they are talking about (HAVING BEEN THROUGH IT FIRSTHAND), the sooner you can really start recovering.


I understand you coming here with questions, things you need. Please, though, take a minute to look at the countless posts to your thread while you were away for a while. I know it's difficult right now to think beyond the seeming immediacy of your own situation, but try to think of the people behind the words. The time and care they are putting in on your behalf, the serious questions they are posing. Pay attention to others, be grateful, learn empathy. It's the lack of those things that contributed to your infidelity, and it's a lack of those things that will ensure you and/or your M never recovers.

Oh! Sorry, I got caught up with all of that other stuff and forgot what initially prompted me to post: EPs.

The way I understood it after counseling with Steve, EPs are not just a list of "I won't fill-in-the-blank." It has to be much more comprehensive and thoughtful and creative than that.

Did you ever look up tst/HPB's EP thread? It's here.

You can't just say "I won't fill-in-the-blank." Think about what particular ENs the OM met (you mentioned the intellectual challenge of cheating, e.g.), and figure out ways to block any other man from meeting those.

So I guess what I'm saying is: EPs are about blocking all contact from your OM, but also preventing any OM from meeting your ENs.

Have you filled out an ENQ?

So the hunting situation, then, is about ENs in their comprehensive form, AND it's about POJA.

Time to get creative!

One last thing: haha, welcome back to your thread!

I know it's not the help you were seeking re: answers to your questions, but I think (not that I'm biased, or anything) that it's more helpful in the grand scheme of things.

The solution is stop traveling. If you can't go together, then he shouldn't go. Traveling apart is an invitation to an affair and is a big no-no at Marriage Builders.

It is also a leisure activity that you don't share. It is this kind of stuff that leads to detachment in marriage that leads to a lack of romance that leads to AFFAIRS.

If you want to recover your marriage, the independent lifestyles have to be exchanged for an INTERDEPENDENT lifestyle.


What did you want to know? They don't advocate joint marriage counseling because it doesn't work. Couples who counsel together tend to complain about each other, which is damaging to the marriage.


Many of us have done the weekend seminars, with great success. They have replaced the weekend seminars with the online version. They are exactly the same except you watch Dr Harley on video from your computer, whereas, we watched him in a ballroom. The seminar has successfully turned many marriages around here.

If people are jumping all over you, then you should take a harder look at YOURSELF and pay attention. Folks don't jump unless they see fog, so that should give you a hint to re-examine your thinking. This is a FOG FREE ZONE!

I do keep coming back -- and I am taking a harder look at myself.

The EP's are things I'm supposed to offer him to make him feel safe and as part of Just Compensation, right?

I can't offer him as part of Just Compensation that he stop traveling and, more importantly hunting. I'm looking for a way to make him feel safe when he does those things -- especially hunting -- come on, MelodyLane, you are a Texan -- you HAVE to get the men hunting thing?

The question re: joint marriage counseling gave me the impression there was an article or something that I just couldn't find. There is a lot on this website, and I am trying to cover it all, but I couldn't ever locate the source of that and wondered if it was true. In this particular instance, I don't need to understand why because the answer works for me.

Mrs_Vanilla -- glad to see you show up. I have read a bunch of your posts on other threads, and I welcome your input. I may be dumb as a rock right now, but I am trying to become something more than a virus -- hopefully, a mammal with an opposable thumb and all. I have read the thread you suggested on EP's, as well as many others. I am just having trouble getting my searches to come up with stuff that is responsive to my question. Like, I have read many posts from SapphireReturns and I would love to read her thread but can't figure out how to access it. Posters from time to time have said read _________ thread, but I haven't the faintest idea how to find it. I'm not lazy -- I'm search engine impaired. I looked all over for feedback on the On-Line program (we can then solve our marital problems from different cities -- indeed different countries!) but couldn't find it.

I PROMISE, I have numerous bad qualities, but I am not lazy on seeking information.

And, OK, I give up. I will pick up the ^*()&*N&*()& telephone and call -- I need immediate help.

SW,

If you want to see what else a poster has posted here, click on his or her user name beside any post they have made. Then choose the <View Posts> button and it will show you everything they ever said here.

Some of the info you are looking for is right here in your thread.

Some of the info, as was posted to you here in your own thread, you may not be able to find on the website ~ it may have been learned about in the MB Weekend, thru coaching or on the radio show.

It would be beneficial to you to go back and read through this thread, maybe more than once. Also to respond to posters who have taken the time to post thoughts and questions to you.

ps...Has your NC letter been sent yet? Has your phone number been changed yet??

Saddest,

The hunting and traveling thing is really not about EP's unless he finds temptation while hunting. Those things are about the POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT, POJA. They are about working for a win-win. He likes to hunt, you have a 15 year old playing serious tennis. It seems to me you have many of your weekends already spoken for even if H doesn't hunt. Should he be supporting his child? Yup!

I do know about the serious sports stuff. We had three playing traveling sports of various sorts and my W and I were often at opposite ends of the state IF we were even in the state. Took three calenders to keep up with it all, and I did ALOT of traveling in those days.

My point? EP are about protecting your marriage from the threat of affairs. You need to invoke EP's to make sure he KNOWS you are serious about not having another affair, and YOU KNOW you are completely avoiding any temptation.

I'm glad you are back and I hope that eventually you will change your perspectives on things in a way that it makes life easier for you.

God Bless,

JL

Saddest, I am glad to see you back. Sorry that you feel like you are being attacked. It is not meant to harm you but to help you, although you may not "see" that yet. I hope to see you one day, as a vet and FWW yourself, dishing out similar 2x4s.

When you talk about the hunting that your H does, you said it creates resentment in you. THAT is enough for it to become a POJA discussion with your H.

Keep coming back. This is a much better addiction to replace the one you had.