I can track her on her phone. She knows about this and it is possible that she could spoof it without much effort, though she doesn't seem to understand how it works right now.

On another "girls night out" she did answer her phone and I heard a friend in the room. Her location was verifiable for her phone too. Also last night when she left, the phone tracks aligned with where she said she was going and I even knew she was home before she walked in afterwards.

As a software guy, I'm more than capable of creating a tracker that she won't know about.

The OM is one of those 30+ women kind of guys. The first time we hanged out with him (after I'd been introduced) he nailed a drunk woman at one of his parties. I always hated my wife's co-workers events. It's like walking into a college party and I have zero interest in that kind of environment. Funny you should mention STDs. I had a nightmare last night about having contracted something. I believe I would have to seriously hurt him for that.

You really need to read up on Anne505 thread....her husband has friends that cheat on their wife's and they will get together and hang out with their g/f's...sounds like your wife is JUST like anne's husband.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2404339&page=1

Even though you say her friends are "NICE" I am sure they are helping her and enabling her to cheat.

A couple of Qs:

What did you guys together do for RC (recreational companionship) pre-A?

Is this going out with girlfriends for fun nights out something she started doing post-A?

We moved states three times in two years, which meant we were each other's world for the most part. We did a lot of hiking, snowshoeing, and walked together very often in the evenings. We both enjoyed a few tv shows together, which we watched all seasons. We'd also go to the gym together half the time. We did a few other things more sporadically such as go to a parade, festival, or visit Seattle.


It's something that started post-affair. Six days after D-Day she started hanging out with her new friend a lot, instead of the OM. (She'd started doing more and more during the affair too, but with the OM and not this new friend)

She has been having lunch with friends 1-3 times a month before all of this started. She'd also go on a "girls night out" on rare occasions. Maybe 1-3 times during a 3 month span. The city we live in now can be fairly boring, but during the past year here we'd hang out at night together, maybe go to dinner, or watch a show together. Socially she is a completely different person right now.

Again, it's not that she's planning on being gone every night, it's just that overall individual social activity has jumped up from 1-4 times a month to roughly 4-10 times a month.

Can you try to make some RC plans with her? Dinner, dancing or any of the things you used to do with her? Or is she unwilling right now?

We are supposed to have a "date night" this Thursday. Something we've planned to do weekly since the marriage seminar suggested it. I have no idea if she'll go this week. As far as I know, she's still not really speaking to me and too upset from yesterday. She's so mad and with her friend enough, I wouldn't be too surprised if she went to stay with her for a night or two. I could be very wrong.

I'm game for any RC together as soon as she is.

She did come home tonight. We talked a few times and the last time for quiet a while. She is still enormously upset over the exposure and said that I "stabbed her in the back".
Otherwise it was great to be able to talk a while. Hard, but good. The exposure is an extremely touchy subject. She said she considered leaving today and that I've taken us huge steps backwards in recovery
All I can say is that I am doing the best I can. She feels like I did this to hurt her. It's the last thing I wanted to do though.

She also is still wanting time away from me and will be gone tomorrow night. Thursday is still scheduled as date night for us. I'm hoping we can still have it.

She's blame shifting. Just expect it. You can't educate her. Stick to your statement, "I'm doing what I need to save and protect this marriage. Exposing your affair, whether you like it or not, is a step in that direction."

Say it like a broken record. Some might disagree with the last part.

Be the rock of stability and the broken record.

If you go on dates and she starts harping on you about exposure, say, "I do not need to justify or defend the steps I take to protect our marriage. I would do it again. Want a (drink, cookie, dinner, shake, pick your snack)?"

In other words, state your case and then change the subject. Do not apologize for doing the right thing.

I also think it is important you let her know that the M isn't going to make it if she doesn't leave the job.

Dr H says that NC is a "demand" that a spouse is able to make.

You don't have threaten this, but definitely plant the seed that this isn't going to work for you. Ask her family to pressure her to leave the job as well.

ETA: and TRY to do this with some confidence, obr Waywards will use your fear against you...

I've been a broken record. I do feel a bit of regret though. I should have exposed sooner while the pain was still fresh. Instead, we're reliving some of it that her and I had started to put behind us.

Her Job
You know what's funny about her job? She's always venting over it and has been wanting to do photography full time for years. She's finally got a decent portfolio built up, her skills have grown considerable, she does great work, and she's getting lots potential clients right now. She could easily quit and start working in an area she enjoys. She won't do it just yet.

We talked last night about her job situation again. She is stubborn about the risk of seeing her EA partner. She thinks she is over it (which I do believe she mostly is at the moment) and won't be vulnerable to him again. Stubbornness runs in her family. I'm not banking my marriage on the hope that she's the exception to the rule. Last night she mentioned something about getting a plan together for her job, for when to quit. Having her think that at all is progress.

I'm hoping we can get into more counseling soon. I'm still waiting on an appointment to be arranged. We had lunch today and were both civil

Family
I had to tell her parents to lay off for the weekend. They are still trying to process everything and are reaching out. Communication is good, but I'm thinking that her getting hit with this every day isn't going to be healthy. I'm shooting for Dr Harley's Rule of Time, especially this weekend. I asked her parents to not communicate with her for the weekend, because I need to try and spend positive and fun time with her. They agreed and my next goal is to get my wife to join me on Sat and Sun, for two days of not drudging up any hurt. Her family can be overbearing and their reaction to us is always something that has to ultimately be managed by me. You wouldn't believe the things that have been issues between us in the past.

Why are you shielding her from the consequences of her A??? That is the whole purpose of exposure! ags!

You need the carrot AND the stick!

Let everyone who wants to give her 2x4s do it. This is a GOOD thing.
The excuse about her not leaving the job and being stubborn?? This is typical cake-eating behavior. You need to let her know she can't have the job/OM and the M or she is going to walk all over you.

Crap. I can renege on them laying off, at least via email and phone. They (her dad and sister) are planning on a lunch on Friday with her, which I think is great. They wanted Saturday to hang out, all of us (her mother included) as a group. Do you think that's a good idea?

I just read the "Rule of Time" chapter in Surviving an Affair last night and it suggested vacation time (which isn't possible right now) or successive weekends together. My primary request was that we have the weekend undisturbed together and that they can resume communication on Monday. When we're together and she has to face them and what she did, things don't go so well for me. We wouldn't be able to go have fun together under such circumstances. Thoughts?

I could really use a vacation from all of this.

WH and I were able to take a vacation for a few days. MIL took DS for the week and we took off for the mountains.

We had a great time and were able to bond during that time together.

However, when we got back home, the A hit me like 5 tons of bricks.I had a harder time coming back to the realization than I did before the vacation.

The vacation did help his withdrawl though. So it was a good thing, just hard for me to come back to reality.

Obr3,
Please give an update. How are you doing?

Update
Shortly after my last post, I got pretty depressed: exhausted, zero energy, despondent, bored. I've only been looking forward to being at work. As of yesterday I'm on Wellbutrin (Bupropion), though it will take a while to kick in.

We've talked with her family in person. They are in a good place now with us. The problem is, for the past week, I've felt nothing when I look at my wife. No desire, no love, no interest. This has never happened to me before. I'm struggling with myself wanting to find ways to avoid going home.

Neither of us are excited about bettering the marriage. We struggle with hope. I'm not sure that I can provide what she wants. Many of the things she wants were what the OM was giving her. Ex: Picking her up when we hug. I'm a hugger when it comes to my wife, but she said me picking her up shows my love. Can I learn to do that? Sure. With each little request will I feel I'm just becoming as much of the OM as possible? Yeah. Will that bother me? Probably more than it should.

What I'm afraid of is that she wants the new relationship feeling. She's cried some recently; also worried that I can't be what she wants.

I'm still confused about how the entire marriage has sucked. I have a lot of great memories. I can remember a handful of instances in the past 3 years during which she broke down a little, crying about It always bothered me greatly. It seemed childish and as if she simply couldn't deal with the ups and downs of life. Now I'm trying to look back and see if I've been insane to depressed or confused the entire time and that life really has sucked for 3 years. So I'm getting treated for depression; medication, counseling, education. In the meantime, I feel nothing towards my wife. I've started to resent her and her ego.

She talked two days ago about how the OM was like coming out of a dark cave and reminded her of what being in the light is like. With me, it's a dark cave. Since marriage.

Her premonition or whatever about me dying is upsetting too. She's mentioned that the idea brings her relief. I can't tell if this is something normal: that she's just expressing a typical worry and the relief is simply relief from our messy situation, or if these are very unhealthy feelings about me.

Rant
It's too bad all this isn't simply about me having anger problems, work addiction, etc. To the best of my ability I've cut all addictions I know of. I'm bored to no end because I don't know what I'm supposed to do if everything can be an addiction: tv, exercise, working, video games, drinking, eating. She does not want me bothering her all of the time. Depression has me at the moment, which is bad for us. So at least I can work on that. Does anyone ever come on this forum that simply can't deal with the memory of an EA? I found a stack of print-offs at work of her and the OM talking. As I read them I started shaking all over, not with anger, just shaking. I can't stop thinking about it some days. Nor can I stop thinking about the OM and him coming at her like this. That my wife latched onto him and the terrible friends he has. All alcoholics and all knowing something was going on. Right under my nose some days. People aren't right.

I hate looking at the future and seeing myself each day competing with any men in her life, constantly trying to figure out how to make her feel loved. Flowers, hugs, kisses, emails, love notes, financial support, "I love you"'s, dinners, trips weren't enough.

This Wellbutrin can't kick in soon enough.

I was married once to a woman like your wife. I was miserable since I could never make her happy. I was never romantic enough, etc.

Well, I'm now married to someone who loves me for me. What I'm trying to tell you is that you can continue to castrate yourself about your WW and it won't make you happy.

A woman like her is an emotional black hole. You will never be able to fill her needs and you will constantly disappoint her. The hole is within herself. No man will ever fill that void since she's caught up in fantasy images of romantic love. Reality isn't like that. Real love isn't a sentence of never ending work. It doesn't feel like work when it is real and it is mutual when it is real.

Chew on that. What you're feeling is totally normal for someone cheated on. Odds are that it is YOU who will feel more and more anger as time goes on.

obr, you need to move to Plan B. Do you want help doing this? Hang in there.

Plan B is a part of ending an affair. At this point, at least for the past two or three weeks, she's been "normal". She's even continued, slowly, reading. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is that everything about me is wrong.

I'm not romantic enough, I don't hug right, I joke too much, I'm too serious, I'm not expressive enough with my emotions, I'm not attractive, I'm not social enough / don't have enough friends, our honeymoon wasn't good, our trips are boring, I'm not present enough during sex, I touch her too much, I touch her too little, I don't clean well enough, etc.

I do provide for us, enough that she wouldn't have to work. Her income has been nice though. I'm great about washing dishes, have cooked often, washed clothes, etc.

Gosh, I'd love nothing more than to live like this for the rest of my life.

I dated women like this. The last one that was like this wanted to change how I dressed, talked, walked, carried myself, felt about certain issues, etc.

My ex w said that I acted older than my age, didn�t want to go clubbing, and wasn�t romantic enough.

I am thrilled that my ex left and freed me from the life sentence I was facing. I met the woman that wanted to change me after my D and I�m very happy I dumped her.

I have since met a woman that likes me for exactly who I am. She doesn�t think I�m not romantic. She doesn�t think that I don�t do enough. She doesn�t complain about how I dress (other than my tube socks with shorts) .

But she loves me for me. She doesn�t want to change anything about me. THAT is what you want. Otherwise, why is she with you if you supposedly suck so much.

AGAIN: You will never be able to satisfy this woman. The emotional hole in her is a black hole that can never be filled.