@Pepperband Why do you think a confrontation with the OM would help? He knows me, I've eaten at his table, met his friends. He doesn't care about what he's doing to my marriage

....The most impactful thing you can do to save your marriage is expose this affair. It should be done in a wide spread, strategic manner all on the same day. Doing it on the same day ensures a tsunami effect that is hard for the affairees to recoup from.

Exposure is the most powerful weapon because it is like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd of people. It is no fun getting high when everyone is watching. Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, and clinical psychologist, says this about exposure:

here

Exposure works immediately in some cases, in others it hastens the death of the affair. There are no guarantees, but it is your best weapon.

Best practices that we have found around here are doing it all in one day. Make up a COMPREHENSIVE LIST of exposure targets and start exposing by making phone calls, sending emails, sending overnight letters.

Exposure targets are :

1. parents of ALL - yours, his, the OW's - call them up and tell them about the affair and tell them you are trying to save your marriage. Ask for their advice. Ask the OW's parents to use their influence to persuade their daughter to quit her job and leave your H alone

2. close friends and family - call them up and tell them about the affair and tell them you are trying to save your marriage. Ask for their advice.

3. employer, if a workplace affair [we have a letter that should be sent to Human Resources]

4. facebook exposure of the OW and your H. This has proven to be a very powerful exposure tool. you would make a copy of all their contacts and save in a Word doc. Send them a private email asking them to use their influence to persuade the adulterers to end their affair. Space the emails out so that facebook doesn;t shut you down. Enlist one of your friends to help you in this. [I will post some sample letters below]

This is your most powerful weapon against the affair, fanti. Additionally, I would stay in constant contact with the OW's BF so you can compare notes and cause as much conflict in the affair as possible.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that ASAP so the things we are tellng you make some sense.

Another thing you can do that has proven to be one of the most powerful weapons against an affair is exposure on facebook to the OM�s friends. Facebook is a collection of the person�s closest and most important friends, all in one spot! We have had numerous affairs killed in the SAME DAY after a facebook exposure. They are DEADLY. What we did was make a copy of all the names of all the OP�s friends FIRST. [this is important because once the OP gets wind you are sending out messages to his friends, he will close his page] You will have to send out an email, one by one to his facebook friends. It should go something like this:

Facebook exposure letters

Dear friend of Joe Scumbag,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Joe had an affair with my wife, Sally, from Aug until September. I believe that his friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 small daughters and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BH

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

My wife is having an emotional affair and some physical contact. She delivered a no-contact letter and agreed to work on marriage on Tuesday (3 days ago). She has no let go emotionally, on facebook, or at work from her emotional "lover". The "lover" I've learned has done this before, perhaps at work, and been in trouble for trying to break up a marriage. He's a bad guy, which hurts me all the more. My wife and I had a fairly good day yesterday (all things considered) and I'm finding levels of patience and love I never knew I had. Also levels of pain I couldn't have imagined. I love my wife so much and have been knocked completely off my feet by this. I have not exposed this to family which is where I'm stuck. She's reluctantly showing effort, but contact with the other man is being continued at times. Though to her credit, she managed to let me drag one instance of contact out into the open. Should I expose the affair to our families?

@Maritalbliss

Thanks. I will listen. I told my friend yesterday I'd go be a s**t shoveler the rest of my life if it'd help rebuild and protect our marriage. I am asking her today to quit her job.

I have a terrible feeling that she will not comply.

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

If she can't quit her job, it will be time to expose this to her family, boss, and friends. She will hate me all the more, but I have to try.

After a while she agreed to read His Needs Her Needs, at least for now. She's reading as I type this.

Funny that you should bring up contacting human resources. The OM is in Human Resources and may be the head of it! (I'm not certain of his official title.)

The only person at work I can think of contacting is my wife's supervisor whom has been there over 25 years and has a great deal of authority within the company. Again, dealing with Human Resources is a little dangerous it seems.

Just talked to her. She won't quit her job. She says that the OM will likely quit soon since he wants to be a fireman.

Advice??? She won't leave her job.

Just talked to her. She won't quit her job. She says that the OM will likely quit soon since he wants to be a fireman.

Advice??? She won't leave her job.

Just talked to her. She won't quit her job. She says that the OM will likely quit soon since he wants to be a fireman.

Advice??? She won't leave her job.

Is my wife doing better? She was very open with me today. Much talk about the love between her and the other man. Very hard to hear but I'm taking it like a pro.

The OM is not married. He's enjoying his single life: day job, cheap beer and partying by night.

Still, after a long talk and her refusal to quit her job, I feel like a doormat. I don't deserve this. Our marriage isn't the POS she's making it out to be. We were happy. Not always, not flawlessly, but we were. Now it makes her sick to think about working through this and I have to listen to her describe her forbidden love and how contrasted to it, I'm crap. I know better, but I'm starting to believe her.

Exposure? I don't know. It's embarrassing on some level, not that I care much. I may do it. At least to her boss. Family? I don't know. Would it help? Do I even care anymore? People work through this for years, God help them.

How many times in a day can I listen to pleas for a way out and how great the OM's love is? I'm not a wimp, but I'm not made of stone either.

Exposure? I don't know. It's embarrassing on some level, not that I care much. I may do it. At least to her boss. Family? I don't know. Would it help? Do I even care anymore?

Exposure? I don't know. It's embarrassing on some level, not that I care much. I may do it. At least to her boss. Family? I don't know. Would it help? Do I even care anymore? People work through this for years, God help them.

. I may do it. At least to her boss. Family? I don't know.

"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.".

Exposure? I don't know. At least to her boss. Family? I don't know. Would it help?

She also went on about how great he is, how while she knows he's seduced women before that their love is special and that he truly wants her in a loving way. She also told me that she knows they'd have great sex; largely by way of him telling her so. Also that for the first time in her life she could picture herself getting a house and having children.

He'll be different with you, you're special.
Author Unknown

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't (doesn't) have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you really are or really need (or whatever) - and he's the first person to really do that, or the first one in a long time, now isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, have fun with and just relax and be yourself, isn't it? And he can lean on you!

All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for lately and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable.

He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for (even if you didn't know you were looking), because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you.

He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right?

Not with you. You're special. You can fix him. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his ****** with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you. You can save him. So what when he had his problems he used her for a while, with you he will be different, you're special.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women.

That doesn't mean that he'll be in turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 3 (or four) decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife has emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too!

If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance".

It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with (his wife, or whoever). He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history of pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now thinks he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU. This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it, or whoever), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU.

He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbecoming when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times and threw things! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM.

Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you.

He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. If he breaks his word, it won't be his fault, someone else drove him to do it.

With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omit the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way?

So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandoned her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play head games anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old Kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his ****** together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?

[OM],

There's so much I want to say before I get to the main point of why I'm writing this but I guess I'll pick one thing and here it goes. I didn't give you much feedback the other day, but now I will. I think you should be a firefighter. You've been sitting on the idea for over a year now and your interest hasn't gone away. We both know how you feel about what you do at [COMPANY NAME] and you've been there 4 years so you know nothing's going to change. So stop trading your time for money and start doing something you're actually passionate about. Do something with your life that matters to you. Yes, the job may be emotionally difficult and dangerous, but I think if you don't try, you will regret it. Majorly. And yes, I recognize the irony in that last part because I knocked you for the "no regrets" philosophy in my letter earlier this week, but this is different & I'm sure you know that. Even if you find that the job's not for you, at least you will have learned something about yourself, tried something new, and freed yourself from the rut that often comes with a "comfy" job. You'll be that much closer to finding out what you want, even if it is to learn that maybe you're ok with a desk job. :-) So there's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

Oh and while I'm pretty sure I would have given the same advice to you before all this, I do feel like I owe you full disclosure. Bryan has asked me to quit my job on Monday (tomorrow). While I told him I'm not prepared to do that yet, I'm considering it and entertaining a few options that oddly enough popped up this weekend. I admit at first I thought that was an extreme request and he was crazy for making it but I'm slowly beginning to understand. There is no way I can truly devote myself to trying to save my marriage and still have contact with you. Every time I talked to or emailed you, I was just undoing any good or progress that Bryan & I might have made and honestly, making this process that much more painful for myself. Seriously, I don't know if I've felt this sad before in my life on so many different levels.

Now I'm not saying if you don't leave, then I will have to. But I do have some concerns that may make it my only option. Even though we don't work in the same department, our paths cross quite a bit and I'm afraid I'll fall back on old habits. I'm clearly not as strong as you in keeping my distance. You'd become a staple in my work day that I'm having trouble doing without. Which sort of leads me to another point - as much as it is devastating me to say goodbye to you, the truth is I could never be sure that what I felt for you was for the right reasons, given the circumstances. You were fulfilling needs of mine that may have never been fulfilled in my marriage and perhaps some that I didn't even know I had. I'm not saying that is the only reason I talked to you. I believe I've meant the things I've said to you, but I also believe that I can't be sure that my attraction to you has come from a pure place and that's definitely not fair to you, because you deserve to have that reciprocated.

So all that said. I'm cutting contact ....for real this time. Of my own choice, without someone breathing down my neck about it, and not with a stuffy handwritten letter. I'm going to try to avoid you in the halls & breakroom and not send you emails unless I have to for work. Who knows.. maybe I'll get this photography opportunity that came up over the weekend and soon you won't have to deal with me or this anymore.

I hope this has been readable and sorry it became a book in length. I know you hate to read as much as I do. haha

Oh.. I did de-friend you on Facebook and I'm not positive this is your email address. Just going off memory here. So if it's not - Hello stranger. Hope you've enjoyed the window into this soap opera. :-)

Maybe if you could just reply "got it" or something when you read it. Please don't say much more than that though. Your words already haunt me enough.

And finally......

Not to sound dramatic or anything, but I do hope you have a fantastic life. And if you go the firefighting route, then good luck!

Peace,

[WIFE'S NAME]

Her molasses slow steps away from this situation concern me, but also give me a lot of hope. Yesterday was her best day yet and she actually told me that she loves me. Something I haven't heard in a while.

Well, I had her read a printout of the No Contact article from affaircare.com. She was quiet a while. We talked some and I explained that for us to truly work on our marriage, I'm asking her to quit her job Monday morning.

Well that didn't work out. At first her boss agreed to meet. Then as I was leaving she called and said she couldn't and didn't want to get in the middle of anything. I understand her position though. Now I'm trying to gather info on how to reach HR without accidentally contacting the OM who works in HR (or any of his buddies in HR).

This is surprisingly uncomfortable. I'm not even sure what to say. Do companies even have an issue with non-sexual affairs with co-workers if they don't significantly abuse company time to get together? I know personal emails were sent, though they are well aware of IT keeping copies. My wife has even commented on that before.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

I have two great opportunities to talk to a lot of people tomorrow afternoon or Thursday afternoon. I suspect that the counselors we are meeting with tomorrow are going to push for both her to leave her job and for us to open up about this with family; per their comments from Sunday on affairs.

I implore you to listen to the posters and expose right NOW. Don't wait 3 days hoping your wife comes around. You have tipped your hand already. The boss already said she did not want to get involved. Don't count on her not giving a heads up to your wife.

This is surprisingly uncomfortable. I'm not even sure what to say. Do companies even have an issue with non-sexual affairs with co-workers if they don't significantly abuse company time to get together? I know personal emails were sent, though they are well aware of IT keeping copies. My wife has even commented on that before.

Ok someone correct me if I am wrong here but:

OM is in HR. He has reportedly kissed WW twice. That is physical contact.

Could that not constitute a sexual harassment liability for the company?

If so, run with it in your exposure letters. It will have more of an impact than just they are having an emotional affair.

MelodyLane posted this letter. Thanks btw. I'm considering using it.

[
I'm shocked that her 'boss' doesn't want to get in the middle. She's IN the middle, by virtue of this employee relationship.

I'm not having much luck gathering email addresses. I've only snooped out her boss's. Would self delivered letters to the front desk or snail mail be best? Does it matter?

Have a courier hand-deliver them and get a signed delivery receipt. That makes it more official and you have a record that they actually received your letter.

I'm not having much luck gathering email addresses. I've only snooped out her boss's. Would self delivered letters to the front desk or snail mail be best? Does it matter?

He is more likely to be fired being a man and having influence in the company HR policies.

I recognize the irony in that last part because I knocked you for the "no regrets" philosophy in my letter earlier this week, but this is different & I'm sure you know that. Even if you find that the job's not for you, at least you will have learned something about yourself, tried something new, and freed yourself from the rut that often comes with a "comfy" job. You'll be that much closer to finding out what you want, even if it is to learn that maybe you're ok with a desk job.

All this aside I'm having a hard time not developing expectations. She had a good day from about 11am Sunday until now. I feel like I'm rewarding the fog lifting with trouble. I KNOW BETTER. Just sharing the emotional side of this. It's very disorienting.

In the world of law firms, the person lowest on the totem pole isn't fired, but given a ginormous settlement to keep it all hush hush. Attorneys are VERY afraid of being sued or having their firms exposed at any kind of hanky panky. I've seen it happen several times in my career. Not sure how it goes in the corporate environment.

Except maybe @helpthelostdads.

Thanks schtoop.

I can come off as abrasive, but it's not my intent. The greatest gift a BS can give him/herself is the realization that they certainly deserve better and that they must not tolerate one bit of their WS's behavior. Getting to that point is liberating.

It is also what ironically makes the BS more attractive.

I don't have an inconsistent philosophy:

No kids + cheating = no loss. Bail. Leave the cheater and find someone better.

Kids alter the equation.

Orb, you're a young man. This woman sounds immature. You CAN do better.

I respect your feelings and desire to save things. I'm offering the advice as a man who has been in your shoes.

I fully recovered my marriage and I am quite happy. However, I had been married for 30 years and had five children.

As a BH I initially wanted a divorce, but realized it is difficult to throw away 30 years. Furthermore, we had a good marriage.

I see the point of not trying to recover a marriage with no children when the BS is quite young. I understand the vows are the same, but at a young age and with no children there is ample opportunity to find happiness with someone else.

Stop it, Stan-ley. The vows aren't worth more with age.

I took no exposure actions.

Today
Today was the first day back at work from the 4th of July weekend. Her mood was enormously better today before work. Today after work my intuition is that something happened. She was distant, quiet, avoiding eye contact, etc. Now obviously I'm paranoid and everyday she's at work with him, possibly seeing him in the halls, or emailing him, I'm paniked a bit. Maybe I'm wrong, but tonight didn't feel right.

I'm likely very depressed right now.

She told me that she's often fantasized about me dying. <--- That was awesome to listen to.

I've started researching divorce a bit. I'm back and forth on my decision to work on this marriage.

The Short Update

One and a half hours later we had a 2 hour session with Lynn from Marriage Matters. She asked, listened, and by then end told me that I'm a sex addict and my wife is probably a full-blown relationship addict. (She was incredibly kind and insightful throughout the entire session). Also that we are both from very dysfunctional families; which once she described it, was the truest thing I'd ever heard and pinpointed a lot of things I'd only partly discovered in recent years. I'm not going into that part though.

So I'm a Sex Addict
I responded immediately with a positive sounding "OK". As revealed to her, I've looked at porno. In fact, depending on my wife being in town, her willingness to help out, or if I've had a bad day I've turned to porno quiet often. It varies greatly. Probably averaging once a week or two in recent months. The primary issue being that I use that to self medicate and it will escalate. Despite the de-escalation from my early single days. I fully appreciate her analysis in this area, have stopped, and I don't believe it will be difficult to never seek porno again (unless I'm being naive).
Oh, I'm likely also be depressed, but I sort of knew that at the time.

She's a Relationship Addict
Not surprising. Since age 15, she's barely gone 2 weeks without dating someone. She gets hugely upset when our own dates don't go down like she works up in her mind. She used to get really mad if I tried to plan an evening or guy's trip without her. Co-dependency issues and so on.

The Full Update
After the session we were a little shook up from everything, including the dry drunk families conclusion. I did get a moment to ask what to do about exposure at work. She said to do what I must, but I may want to give my wife a chance to take the correct action herself. Then with a hard look, the kind that makes you feel naked, she told me, "if my wife can't get over her affair/emotions, you don't need this; and that it's not because you don't love her." That struck hard, since loving her has been so difficult and the guilt I seem to inevitably feel.

Sorry if my opinion about kids offends someone, but the vows don't say anything about tolerating adultery.

The advice on exposure is very clear. I'm stuck there and not sure why

When asked she did tell me that she bumped into the OM in the hall at work and there was an awkward "hey" exchanged.

One more undeniable instance of them being together and I will use exposure, likely back to back with Plan B.

Today was the first day back at work from the 4th of July weekend. Her mood was enormously better today before work. Today after work my intuition is that something happened. She was distant, quiet, avoiding eye contact, etc.

I know it doesn't feel good, but trust me, it was the right choice.

Good job, obr!

If you are getting the feeling that you want to expose to the workplace too, it's better to do it ASAP, while she is still fuming from today's exposure.

Remember the more angry she is over the exposure, the better. If she was upset because you exposed, that means it's working.

Hang in there!

She said no matter what any book, psychologist, or support forum says (she hasn't seen this thread), that what I did was wrong.

The only other person willing to call is her sister, but she's been told to hold off for now by her mother.

Yet I see that 3 nights this week are possibly scheduled to spend time with a friend of hers. Her friend is very nice, though I know she's confessed to kissing or making out with two guys shortly after marriage; which concerns me some as I wonder how many friends share stories of infidelity.

@SapphireReturns How long were you mad over exposure?

I left two days after he exposed me, voluntarily, I went to my sisters in Colorado, and with in 6 hours I wanted to be home, I knew what I wanted, and I wanted my life back. I was there 10 day's because wheels was not ready for me to come home. (smart man!) I tell my husband almost every time I read a husband not willing to expose...I say "Wheels, I am sooo glad you exposed my A!!" If he didn't, we would yet be in another situation with another EA sadly..but true. Some take longer to forgive, but eventually we ALL forgive when you have exposed.

It it common to go out several nights a week?

NO!! Married people should NOT have friends OUTSIDE of the marriage, if so those friends ARE A THREAT TO YOUR MARRIAGE!! And she needs to find NEW friends! Friends that are yours as well...and MARRIED friends!

Is it common for me to have a ton of motivation to work on our marriage, but feel little is reciprocated? I don't want every single night of the week to be dedicated to reading marriage books or walks together, but I'd like maybe twice a week. I'm dying to spend time with her and would love to see her every night with enough time to go for a walk or something.

Wheels and I take breaks of marriage books, we told each other that we will find a "FUN" book and a marriage book to read, I think we have finished several series of books, and now starting on "hungers game" sometimes we will get on MB and read articles. So no you don't have to ALWAYS read marriage books, just make sure you are together and having fun

Yet I see that 3 nights this week are possibly scheduled to spend time with a friend of hers. Her friend is very nice, though I know she's confessed to kissing or making out with two guys shortly after marriage;

Like I said these friends are a threat to you and your marriage, and she needs to find new friends if she ever wants to recover the Marriage.

A couple of Qs:

What did you guys together do for RC (recreational companionship) pre-A?

Is this going out with girlfriends for fun nights out something she started doing post-A?

I had to tell her parents to lay off for the weekend. They are still trying to process everything and are reaching out.

Why is life so hard? Why are things always a challenge? Etc...

The problem is, for the past week, I've felt nothing when I look at my wife. No desire, no love, no interest. This has never happened to me before. I'm struggling with myself wanting to find ways to avoid going home.

I'm not romantic enough, I don't hug right, I joke too much, I'm too serious, I'm not expressive enough with my emotions, I'm not attractive, I'm not social enough / don't have enough friends, our honeymoon wasn't good, our trips are boring, I'm not present enough during sex, I touch her too much, I touch her too little, I don't clean well enough, etc.

Plan B is a part of ending an affair. At this point, at least for the past two or three weeks, she's been "normal". She's even continued, slowly, reading. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is that everything about me is wrong.

Plan B is a part of ending an affair. At this point, at least for the past two or three weeks, she's been "normal". She's even continued, slowly, reading. The big problem, as far as I can tell, is that everything about me is wrong.

I'm not romantic enough, I don't hug right, I joke too much, I'm too serious, I'm not expressive enough with my emotions, I'm not attractive, I'm not social enough / don't have enough friends, our honeymoon wasn't good, our trips are boring, I'm not present enough during sex, I touch her too much, I touch her too little, I don't clean well enough, etc.

I do provide for us, enough that she wouldn't have to work. Her income has been nice though. I'm great about washing dishes, have cooked often, washed clothes, etc.

I hope you will listen to Lake, obr!

T/J
How have you been, Lake? You were a great help to me when I first got here. I was wondering what happened to you!

Many actions she takes screams "I want to be single", her words are otherwise.

@imagine

A week ago at a friend's house. Best I can tell she's remorseful because her family pushed her hard to "try and save this marriage" along with lots of religious scare tactics. I don't know if she's pregnant, but I doubt it. I'm sure he'd be happy to screw her a few more times.

She's still "trying to fix things". Quitting her job tomorrow supposedly. I SMSed her and told her to keep her job, she'll need the income.

Right now, I can't think about her without picturing them together and all of the disgusting details. Why would any sane person want to stay? She doesn't love me. Love is not the reason she's trying to "save things" now. She's trying to right herself and save a little face with her family I imagine.

I'd rather kill myself at this point than "go back to her".

She's still "trying to fix things". Quitting her job tomorrow supposedly. I SMSed her and told her to keep her job, she'll need the income.

Hello obr3,

Well, you do what you want, but you seem to be ignoring any of the good and reasonable advice here, and keep coming back with your retaliatory measures. I can understand your feelings of wanting to turn this guy on his head. However, your mission at this time is not to save the world from this guy, but to work on yourself and attempt to save your M. You seem to be more interested in punishing this OM, rather than improving yourself and guiding your WW back to your M. Keying cars, posting signs, sending a mass mailing to probably hundreds of people who don't know the OM or your WW, or could care less, won't accomplish anything except land you in jail! Bolting from your home and your WW after you attempt to do these things will only show her that she IS entitled to a more secure and more rational partner.

Right now you need to back off, read and listen to the people here, and realize that destroying a rattlesnake with a bazooka is not a good idea.

Good luck.
Tom

so I'm debating the MB telephone counseling.

She's interviewed for 2 positions today and it went well. One requires up to 50% travel, the other is practically no travel. I'm not too excited about the first.