You're welcome Mrs. V


And that thinking may change tomorrow or next week. Living it and thinking it are two different things.

Let's just say, you do go to med school and your marriage does end...have you thought about how your work with affect your children. Doc hrs suck. How will you handle that with young children?

Just spending time reading through your thread.

A couple of questions?

Is your H caught up in the "good life"? Big house, fancy car, country club, all the signs of 'financial success".

Are you both living beyond your means to make up your past discretions because sometime retail therapy does help.

He is making a decent paycheck even though I do not know what part of the country you are trying to raise your family.

Maybe de-simplifying your lives might help. Less could be more. More time, more job satisfaction, more of less.

Instead of going after the golden fleece look at the happy faces of your children in a loving home with both parents.

Just my 2 cents.

Blessings.

Hey b_r - You have a point about the long hours and kids. The way I *want* things to work will be going into a more family-friendly specialty. I also would try for a residency in those specialties that has more family-friendly hours.

We have discussed alternative career options, like pursing a Ph.D. instead. The hours are much better, though there is a pay cut. I am more interested in medicine at this point, though mere interest shouldn't be the sole determinant.

Right now it looks like we're leaning towards BH staying with his current career (supplemented with many outside interests), me going back to med school, school and nanny for the two little ones. More long-term than that, well, I'm working on no expectations.

Thanks for stopping by


Hmm. Not obsessively so. He and I both know what it's like to live on a tight (read: near-nonexistent) budget, and we want to provide better for our kids and ourselves than that.


Retail therapy! No, we certainly don't live beyond our means. The only debt is my student loans, and those are paid per loan schedule each month.


This is absolutely true. So right now we're trying to find a way to balance it all - income to provide for the kids, job satisfaction and leisure time to keep Mom and Dad sane and happy and productive members of society, all under the umbrella of quality family togetherness. Awwww.

Now, it's just not quite as easy when it's in the context of recovering from infidelity.

Sooo...any word on that 2-year idea? 'Cuz I could use some hope here.

Actually, scratch that. Hope scr3ws me over.

It feels like we've lost in the last month or so any progress we may have made in the last two years. For quite a while, there were not nearly so many comments, not as many withdrawn "fights," and I had hope. Maybe it's because I was blindly bulldozing BH along what I thought was R, and he was letting me? And I have since stopped that, and neither of us is pushing.

On another note: I think I have a Taker problem. (This may or may not be related to the previous paragraph's idea. ) BH has made a few comments lately, and I have - before thinking and shutting my mouth - responded with an attitude. His comments may or may not be A-related, yet I am quick to cut him off ("You have said that, I know where your mind's at, that's okay" in an abrupt dismissal of his repeated comment that he can't depend on me for FS for the kids after we completely D) or jump to my own defense (when no defense was needed, just a simple explanation or nothing at all).

I think what's happening is that, w/ neither of us pushing R along, the LB$s are taking bigger hits w/ any LBers, and the LB$ deposits are making less of an impact.

He has insulated himself and a D is inevitable. I'm trying to keep on w/ meeting ENs, no expectations, yet I find I'm losing my drive. Before I had this long-term picture I was working towards, and now I don't really care what the future holds. I have no vision on which to focus, and don't much care that I don't.

I guess all of this is moot, anyway, as this is exactly what I did to him (though my experience is on a lesser scale, and completely of my own doing - he didn't have a say in my infidelity), and he's committed to a complete D. It's only a matter of time.

Not even sure why I'm writing this. Guess I just need somewhere to express it all.

Just keeping this around. From here.

Mrs_Vanilla


Do you know immediately when you do this? Do you stop and immediately apologize and restate that? We have this same problem, sometimes from me (everything is a long, drawn out story with GM and sometimes I just want a yes or no answer then I bust him) or from him because that is his habit along with excuses. Instead of pointing it all out to each other (creates anger or sadness) we allow each other time to reflect and come back with an apology. If that does not happen the anger subsides and we can talk about it in a better frame of mind. For me as the BS I need him to catch himself and correct himself. He is learning that. For me I need to do better at avoiding those things coming from me entirely, do it in a more polite and considerate way, not to LB him. It is getting better and I tell you that it makes a huge difference in the way we take all our little (or big) faults and foibles.

We are working through this with conversation in the workbooks with HNHN. It is amazing how it all fits together and how it actually works. Dr. Harley is a genius but you all know that by now anyway AND Kim is a wonderful coach! **Hearts to Kim**

Hiya, DWG!

It's appropriate that you ask how I handle these kinds of situations. For pretty much our entire relationship pre-A (and some now post-A, see the rest of this post), I was looooooathe to be wrong, to admit an error, to depend on someone else to get something done for me or fix a problem I got us into but wouldn't admit. (Most probably won't consider these huge things. It was stuff like not wanting to ask for directions and such. But those can turn into huge things!)

I also never appreciated the importance of a verbal apology. I wallowed in my misery at being wrong or messing things up, and didn't acknowledge how my H felt, nor did I often deliver an apology when it was necessary.

I'm trying to fix all of that now. So now, when I identify that, I try to either apologize and explain where I got things wrong, or I try to gauge my BH's mood/response and keep things upbeat...

Now that you ask, though, I'm thinking back. That particular instance that I gave, I didn't apologize. I should have as soon as I realized his mood was dropping, or as soon as I realized how that sounded or could be taken.

Aaaaand the MB philosophy comes full-circle. Here's what I think (because I'm sure you aaaallll care about the nitty-gritty here): a day or so prior, I was relaying a convo to my BH about my troubled brother, and BH cut me off not one sentence in w/ a remark about my A. (It was a true statement, but I still took it hard.) I started again, and not through the second sentence he cut me off again w/ another remark. So I ended that convo and that was it. I didn't address that with him, I got down, and I think it was lingering so that, by the third comment the next night about FS for the family, I jumped to cutting him off.

DWG, you're right about how we handle these situations. I think BH needs to see me recognizing and owning this on my own, and I think both of us being able to address these w/o LBers is key. I think for us it works better to address it right away - if it goes unaddressed, things usually spiral downwards.

Thanks for sharing what you guys have been learning. Every little bit helps!

Just trying to think of things we have learned that might help. One thing Kim has us do is give each other a cue if we are not going to be able to address it at that time. We just leave for a while into another room then come back when we are ready to deal without the blow up that would have occurred. It is working very well for us this way. I am sure you have tried it all but anything to help just in case. GM used to push me so hard before I was ready. He would not stop so I stop it now by telling him I need the space and then go think. Sometimes it even takes me several days to really formulate what it was that actually upset me. We are more clear that way.

It really helps the BS when you catch yourself and apologize. Sometimes we BS's feel we can get away with saying anything we want so it probably requires a little more patience on the WS part. It is all such a big old mess but when you catch yourself and quickly talk about it it gives an air of feeling that there is real work going on from the WS. I found that to be most helpful.

DWG - thanks for the support and ideas. I still have to work on this, I realize. Recognizing, verbalizing, resolving. Rinse and repeat...

Okay, who wants to answer some trivia questions? Let's start the fun!

1) Does giving my BH an amicable divorce qualify as just compensation? (I'm inclined to think it does.)

2) How can I coax us out of withdrawal? (Conflict, I want conflict! And: I suspect this goes against Question #1.)

3) Anyone have access to a time machine? (A poor attempt at levity.)

Hey Mrs. V!

Sorry that you are floundering right now. I know you betrayed your H but I've seen alot of your posts around here and I realize that you really do want to try to right your wrongs. I believe you are working the program and trying to get a favorable outcome. You seem to 'get it'.

But sometimes that's not enough.

Unfortunately, some people never get past the betrayal. Your BH may be one of them. If you cannot get him to particpate in a program of marital recovery such as MB then I'm not sure what else you can do.

MB offers the best plans for marital recovery but it's definitely no guarantee and still a long shot.

Wish I had more wisdom to offer you but I don't.

Stick around though because you are adding value to this place.

Thanks, mindshare

I think I've come to (mostly) accept that BH will never get past the betrayal. Understandably so, I know. Still doesn't make it easy to give up all hope.

I think the boards are a mixed blessing in that respect. It keeps recovery and those fighting for their marriages/recovery at the forefront, and I have to watch myself so I don't fall into the trap of "MB will always work eventually" and/or "there is always hope for recovering the M." Not that those aren't true statements broadly speaking, but not so true if the BS is one of those that just cannot get past adultery.


I sometimes wonder if people think I'm a hypocrite - as in, I'm not even recovering my own M, so who am I to advise others in their potential R?

Regardless, thanks for the input.

If you are a hypocrite then so am I Mrs. V. I didn't reover my marriage either. The big difference between you and I is that you have a 'W' in front of the 'S' while I have a 'B'.

But, that is not a pre-requisite for posting on MB and reaching out to help others. MB offers plans to attempt to recover a marriage. It doesn't always work. In fact, I personally believe it works less often then it doesn't. Not that the plans are flawed, because I believe in the plans, but recovering from betrayal is just so incredibly difficult.

So, keep posting and help others. Pay it forward. It's the right thing to do.

Agreed!

Just keeping around a rather succinct summation:


Here.

Still struggling with this whole "end of the ideal" thing and keeping my hope quashed. I also think I'm being a whiny baby because I am having difficulty moving past this, and hel-LO, who has the W in front of their S? So I should quit my whinging.

I've been all over the place as far as BH's motivations for this change in plans. I think it's because I'm not listening, yet my feelings have been fairly accurate (I think) as far as what I suspect is going on inside his head.

Wanting me to go back to medical school is NOT about FS. Not at all. Instead it's about:

1) BH feeling like he's sacrificing everything if he stays w/ his current job, is our sole breadwinner, and I get to loaf around at home. (My words on the last part.) I would be "dead weight." (Both of our words.)

This is because he is committed to providing well for the family, and he feels locked into his current job ad infinitum. His current job is NOT going to be a source of long-term happiness/fulfillment, so he wants to explore other options.

2) Trying to make sure our sons don't cast him in a negative light when it comes time to completely D. As in, "But, Dad, Mom spent all those years staying home, caring for us, she had no outside work, and now you're just going to leave her to fend for herself?"

I already shared that I am pretty darn sure they will vilify me (and rightly so), and the day we have That Talk with them will be the beginning of the end of my relationship with my children.

I suppose that's not the best way to answer that, as it doesn't acknowledge his very real fears about this.

The end goal is to essentially "create a different family dynamic."

I actually don't know why I am posting any of this. It doesn't change anything. I am doing nothing productive. It's all just one big pile of crappity crap crapness. Courtesy of me. GAH.

Actually (moment of lucidity), it's just that he's done with the M, and is trying to find a way to extricate himself that's most advantageous to the kids. None of the rest of it matters.

I may be a bit dense today Mrs. V but I'm having trouble following your latest posts.

Help me understand what is happening right now with you.

Is your BH pushing you to back to medical school and you think he is doing that for the reasons you stated in your post (ie. so he can get out of his line of work and get you into a career so he doesn't looke like he is abandoning the kids later on down the line)?

At the same time, you think your BH is looking for the best way to end the M right now?

I'm not folliwng you well today Mrs. V.....

As for this, sure your children are going to be hurt and disppointed in what you have done but they will also see a mother/woman that is owning her mistakes and trying to make them right. That is a good example to set for them. You will earn their forgiveness by doing your best moving forward and ensuring that you NEVER make this mistake again. Teach them how to be repentant for your mistakes. Show them contrition and humility. Very important lessons to learn.