Hello Hitch,

See where you are trying to do Plan A.

I read where he rubbed your face in it with the OW at the bar...

Where he told her hello and smiled at her right in front of you.

How you are so hurt you don't know if you can continue.

Did I miss where you have EXPOSED HIS AFFAIRS???

You do know that Plan A is to be in conjunction with EXPOSURE, Right???

Have you EXPOSED to everyone that knows him or her???

If so, how did it go and what was their reaction?

EXPOSURE is necessary or all he is going to do is continue to see her (them) and tell you he's not...

or he can't answer the phone right now...

or he's "at the golf club and can't answer".

EXPOSURE is the most important way to ending his affairs.

All of your plan A is useless if he is still seeing her.

WHY haven't you exposed and why are you taking these ridiculous excuses from him about not coming home on time, not answering your phone calls and hiding his phone???

Well???

Jim

I hear you. Maybe he just doesn't want to be with me and I am not taking the hint.

Hitch,

Tell me about the exposure you have done of his affairs and how it went...

Jim

Hitch,

If he wanted to be away from you...

he would be away from you.

He would have divorced you.

He is acting childish and acting out with you.

Showing you how bad he is hurting...

by hurting you back.

You are ALLOWING this childish behavior to continue by not EXPOSING HIS AFFAIRS!!!

You can still do something about it.

Why aren't you???

Jim

Sweetie.
Plan A is a carrot AND a stick.

Are you afraid of the stick?

Yes Hitch, you are leading him back to what good marriage with you can be with the carrot and stick, just giving him carrots without expecting his performance could just be making him fat.

I would expect him to have to work for it too or else he will stagnate in a comfortable cake-eating place.

Remember that is what started this whole mess right? He wasn't taking care of your ENs?

I would investigate and check whether he is still having Other Women.

Especially with his latest behavior at the bar and his wanting a week apart.

Find out if he is really seriuos about recovery or if he is pulling your leg.

You can investigate descretly, look into it at

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2421407&page=1

If you scroll thru you can find out about keyloggers and VARs. Probably ideas that will work for you too

Hitch,

I hesitate to say this, because you do need to be doing a good plan A, but as Pep says there is a stick part to this.

I am going to try and phrase what I say in a "positive" light but it definitely has some "stick" in it.

Your H thinks he is a perfect husband right? Yet, he acts like his mother and treats as if you were his mother. I think he needs to be reminded that his behavior seems to be strongly influenced by his mother, whom I suppose he sees with no flaws.

Now let me remind you and you can remind him, that no where in your vows did you promise that infidelity was fine IF the other person did it first. And nowhere in your vows does it say that one spouse has the right to punish the other spouse for ANYTHING.

Hitch I am going to make this very simple for you and your H. You either decide to remain married and HONOR your vows or you decide to leave one another. Punishment is not part of the equation, retribution is not part of the equation, only honest effort is part of the equation.

You need to remember this for your plan A, and your H needs to remember this so that he can make the best decision for himself. Oddly, that is exactly what you want, him making the best decision for himself. It may mean divorce, but it could also mean a good marriage with you. You have the same set of decisions. Once you make those decisions and you couple them with your boundaries, you will be able to skillfully handle the carrot and stick part of plan A.

Time to quit feeling sorry for yourself. Time to quit going up and down. It is time for a real plan A which must follow a real decision on your part about this marriage and the man you are married to.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Amen!

Double Amen!

Still haven't heard if she's doing the RIGHT carrot stuff. If she's doing the wrong stuff, it will seem like the stick to him.

She gives a "nice" list of things. But unless I missed something, I really didn't see where he said those where the things he needed to make the marriage a really great marriage for him.

Hitch,

I've been following along on your thread. You have some of the best guiding you so you are very lucky. Please listen and pay close attention. I've definitely seen growth in you since you got here.

Read and re-read JL's last post. His post is spot on. It's time for each of you to decide (individually) if you want this marriage or not. If you do, then it's time to start acting like it (both of you). If not, then it's time to divorce and move on. You have mentioned wanting children on your thread. You aren't getting any younger. If you still want children as part of your life then you either need to fix this marriage and get back on track or divorce and move on. But, continuing down the path you are on with your WH's apparent lack of commitment to resolving the marital issues is only going to ultimately cost you the chance at having children all together.

Please consider this.

After reading this, it suddenly made me realise why he is behaving this way, thanks for pointing it out so bluntly. Jim, I really needed to hear this. I just could not understand his behaviour at all, and was scared to stand up to him. Well I have started to use some stick. I have been in Plan Doormat far too long and really annoyed at myself.

Confronting him Sat night, was a start, even though he acted terribly at least I let him know I wasn�t going to sit there whilst OW approached him and they chatted.

When I got home from work last night, I was all friendly and smiley, he was really pleased to see me. I picked up his phone and said I need to a new one, I might get one like this. He started to look really nervous, itching for me to give the phone back to him. I looked at him and said, why are you so nervous about me picking up your phone? He said because I don�t like people playing with my things or snooping through my phone or email. I said, why what have you got to hide? He said I have not got anything to hide. I then told him that he was very secretive with his phone all the time, hiding it from me and leaving it faced down, so I think you are upto something, I then asked him if he was seeing OW? He said no I am not seeing anyone, he said why are you asking anyway? I said H, if you want to see OW, then end the M, I am not afraid of this, as I am no longer willing to put up with your behaviour any longer. I will not remain in a M where you see OW. He went very quiet, like he had just had a shock and said OK. I then added, H when I mean OW, I also mean girl A and girl B who you had a PA with and then tried to justify being in contact with them by saying �we are just friends�, it stops. He was just very quiet, did not say a word, and looked deep in thought and looked shameful.

I then changed the subject, went out for a run and left him to it. When I came home he seemed really pleased to see me again, the most happiest/normal he has ever been, it was almost like he was relieved I had confronted him about it, weird. I then spent the rest of the evening doing lots of carrot and so did he to me, reminding me of the good things HE did in the relationship.

The last time he stayed out the night was 10 days ago, the last 5 evenings he has spent with me, apart from one (Sat night when we went to the bar). This is progress, I know I have long way to go, but it is certainly better then before MB.

I have also thought about what he liked about me when we met, and it was because I was independent, kind, happy and not desperate or throwing myself at him. I believe that being a doormat was actually a LB and now I am standing up to him he is respecting me.

It�s a start. I no there is more to do. I am away with my GF�s this weekend and looking forward to having a breather from it all. Will use it as an opportunity, to give my mind a rest and recharge my batteries. Then I want to will ask him whether he wants to continue with the M.

Thanks everyone for your support through a difficult few days, the anxiety seems to be gone now I am using more stick. I don�t know what I would do without this place.

Hitch.

Mindshare - I know I am VERY LUCKY. I do want this marriage BUT based on MB principles. Next step is to ask my H what he wants.

Hmm..You should have looked at his phone if he had nothing to hide, I bet you anything there were nuddy pic in there.

Sounds like he was happy when you got home because he was able to delete everything off his phone so you couldn't find anything, so he feels..."I just got away with this...SWEET! Now I can pretend I'm working on this marriage...bla bla bla"

Keep snooping

I think you can do this asking very carefully and creatively. Guide him along.

May I suggest:

You begin by painting a vivid desire of a completely different future marriage with him.

Something like, "I dream of a marriage where we are both so in love with each other, that we could not imagine ever splitting apart.
Do you ever dream of a marriage like that?"

And then, continue to describe your "dream marriage" using MB as your guide.

Such as:
"Where we are considerate of each other'f feelings. Where we avoid being the cause for unhappiness in our dream marriage."

"A marriage where we spend an abundant amount of recreational time together."

"A marriage where we have a joyous, almost spiritual, sex life."

Hitch, can you SEE where I am going with this.

PAINT a future marriage and then leave him with a question.

"Does that sort of happy marriage appeal to you?
You don't have to answer right now. Think about it for a day, or so. I'll be here, ready to begin the dream with you."

And then, after asking him .... the difficult question.
Ask him something immediate.

"I'd love to cook us a delicious meal, Do you have any particular request?

Good heavens, this explanation would never have occurred to me!

Small wonder I got caught so quick.

Hi JL,

I am ready to face this situation now. I am ready to move forward. I love my H and I want this M, but all the independant behaviour, punishment and OW has to stop or I need to leave if he won't.

I am not willing to compromise on a good, safe loving M. I have been doing more than enough Plan A carrot, now introducing some stick.

Next stage is to communicate to my H whether he wants to remain married and HONOR our vows or we decide to leave one another. Punishment is not part of the equation, retribution is not part of the equation, only honest effort is part of the equation.

I am going away with this weekend with the girls, and would like to communicate this to him before I go or I could do it when I get back. I would appreciate peoples thoughts on this as I want to get this final part right. I haven't given it 6 months to mess up this last piece.

On another note JL, the use of boundaries has been great lately. A couple of examples, I have been a bit upset that my sister has not been over to see me for about 18 months, I have been to visit her numerous times. I have stopped going to visit her and my mother asked my why and I said to her, mum I love my sister a lot, but I am not willing to put more effort into one way relationships when I don't get anything back (I knew this would get back to my sister). 2 weeks later my sister called me to arrange a visit. Love it.

Also, my friend who I mentioned earlier in my thread has been a lot more respectful since I have been using boundaries, she always seemed to be very jealous. For example, when I had friends round to dinner, she said something about everything always been about Hitch, and I responded to her laughing saying, yes and everything about you is jealous, jealous, jealous!! She looked shocked and then laughed it off.

I do hope my H decided to embrace the M, but whatever the outcome it will be the right one. The nerves have kicked in.

Thanks again,

Hitch (still learning).

Thanks Pepper - you read my mind - I wanted to know how to approach next stage with him. This sounds good, how long do you reckon before I do it?

I am not going to stop snooping until I am convinced that nothing is going on. I also told him that last night.