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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
Aplogies if I'm not clear on this, I actually didn't intend to share this part of it.

The OPWs family have held a grudge against my WW for near on 20 years to the extent that my WW and the OP even discussed (in their FB messages) the repercussions of what would happen if anyone found out (i.e. my WW would have to leave the country). In fact this danger only seemed to make the EA more exciting IMO. The ex-boyfriend from that time is no longer around, rather it is the OPWs family (brothers) who are to be worried about as a) they know my wife and b) would like nothing better than to have an excuse to right a perceived wrong from many years ago.

I am not being dramatic here. If the OPWs family find out that the OP was having any kind of affair with my WW they would go ballistic and that would more than likely take the form of violence against him and my WW.

Quit being such a drama queen. Your WW's affair won't end until you expose to OMW. If ANYONE needs to be afraid of ANY physical repercussions, it's OM, not your WW. Just expose already. You are not going to risk Bloody Sunday by exposing. YOU are in YOUR OWN FOG. You have bought into what WW and OM are telling you. You or your WW are NOT going to be phsyically harmed, so quit being so soft on this.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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The benefit of exposing now is it provides you a measure of control. You can take precautions because you KNOW when the other family will find out, you can prepare accordingly. Get the police number on speed dial. If necessary plan a trip for the time of exposure and get out of town for a few days until calm arrives.

If there are ANY threats made, ANY contact from the other family, immediately file a restraining order.

Because YOU controlled the flow of information you can work to mitigate the fallout should it escalate to abuse. You can be prepared.

You do it your way - and don't expose.... you will always be looking over your shoulder, waiting for the day OMW finds out on her own - and she WILL find out. At that point you will have less control and less ability to stop an escalation.

You expose to OMW NOW you can maintain some control over the situation.

You wait - and you are at the mercy of the fates.

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p.s. you won't know WHEN the OMW finds out if you don't expose and won't be able to take cover. If you do expose, you can take steps to protect your wife.

I would also add that what your wife has done to this OMW and you is as bad as physical assault or rape. I want to keep that in perspective.

Your wife is not the victim here, she is the RAPIST. And the most important thing is protecting her victims. Your wife ASKED for this, her victims did not. They dont' deserve to be harmed, your wife DOES. She willingly took this risk with her eyes open.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
[I think that she set her (your) friends up to contact you about this possible violence. How odd that they should both ring you to tell you not to expose because of it. That is not normally what friends would do. Your wife arranged this with them.

I agree. It is a ruse to keep him away. If the risk was real, then why aren't the adulterers concerned about it? They were not concerned about it, so why should you be concerned?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Also,

I've got a bridge to sell you if you think the affair didn't already go physical when he came to visit.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
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Originally Posted by jmwc95
Quit being such a drama queen. Your WW's affair won't end until you expose to OMW. If ANYONE needs to be afraid of ANY physical repercussions, it's OM, not your WW. Just expose already. You are not going to risk Bloody Sunday by exposing. YOU are in YOUR OWN FOG. You have bought into what WW and OM are telling you. You or your WW are NOT going to be phsyically harmed, so quit being so soft on this.

A well aimed and potentially accurate 2x4. Small correction though, they didn't tell me about the potential trouble, I found out most of that through my snooping.
As for Fog, probably. Possibly made a bit thicker by no evidence of contact between them and also improved relationship at home.


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Originally Posted by jmwc95
Also,

I've got a bridge to sell you if you think the affair didn't already go physical when he came to visit.

Uh oh, didn't think of that one but the messages post the meeting were all about what they were going to do when they next met, and regret about not kissing when they did.

Now, about that bridge...


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Does anyone else feel like we will be arguing with esox till he finds out that he is wrong for not exposing?? Just like humble did?

Esox, if you don't expose

THEN YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO RECOVER.....


SIMPLE AS THAT!!!

TAKE IT

OR

LEAVE IT!

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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
You see my dilemma. I cannot expose to the OPW which is hindering my Plan A. ATM there is no contact between them, he appears to have been freaked out when I quoted his full address and contact details of his wife to him down the phone. I "think" the risk of exposure has killed the EA but I cannot go through with full exposure. My WW has not contacted him since she came back from England (though she had done a little of looking up photos of him) and he is silent.
I've been had with that one too, Exos!

I found all the contact details I needed within a week of D Day, but hung onto them for nearly two years, until I found this forum, as I said.

During that time, I rang OW on both her mobile phone numbers. When she refused to speak to me on one, I rang her on the other and left a message, quoting her home landline number. I said that if I didn't hear from her, I would ring the landline and leave a message there. Of course, that meant her H or kids could receive it.

She freaked out and rang me. She promised that she would never contact my H, saying that she had already left Belgium anyway for a new job in Luxembourg, that my H had made it clear that he wanted me and she accepted that, that the affair was OVER.

She then continued to contact my H at work and beg him to travel again. I had a hard job getting him to confess this contact, and it only ended when I ended the secrecy that she was enjoying, by finally contacting her H.

I only realised that I had given this woman carte blanche to have sex with my H because I colluded with her. I told myself, and her, that I was too decent to hurt her innocent H and kids by contacting them. I only wanted her to stay out of my marriage. She promised that she would.

I had her H's contact details for nearly two years, as I told you. I let the affair continue for those two years, through about 6 D Days. As the affair took place only when he was abroad for work, it was impossible for me to detect. After D Day, he left his work-supplied mobile phone in the office, so I could not see the sex messages being sent both ways every day. We had no computer or internet in the house during those years, so there was no opportunity for snooping. She never called our landline during the entire affair. The affair was conducted using workplace resources and physically while he was abroad. It was easy for him to gaslight me and tell me it was all over.

Again; you've been had, mate. Worse; you're accepting sloppy seconds, because you know the affair is continuing and you are gobbling up this man's leftovers because you are afraid.


Are you prepared to stand up for your children, if not yourself?


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by SugarCane
[I think that she set her (your) friends up to contact you about this possible violence. How odd that they should both ring you to tell you not to expose because of it. That is not normally what friends would do. Your wife arranged this with them.

I agree. It is a ruse to keep him away. If the risk was real, then why aren't the adulterers concerned about it? They were not concerned about it, so why should you be concerned?

Having read the messages (before they knew I knew) they were concerned about this risk but that seemed to add to the excitement. The words "forbidden fruit" and "Eve in the garden" were written.


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Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Does anyone else feel like we will be arguing with esox till he finds out that he is wrong for not exposing?? Just like humble did?

Esox, if you don't expose

THEN YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO RECOVER.....


SIMPLE AS THAT!!!

TAKE IT

OR

LEAVE IT!

I read the humble thread before and was saddened to see it just cut off. I'm a little ashamed to be in the same boat.

BTW that's 2 very well aimed 2x4s from you Sapph, I suspect they were well needed.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
You see my dilemma. I cannot expose to the OPW which is hindering my Plan A. ATM there is no contact between them, he appears to have been freaked out when I quoted his full address and contact details of his wife to him down the phone. I "think" the risk of exposure has killed the EA but I cannot go through with full exposure. My WW has not contacted him since she came back from England (though she had done a little of looking up photos of him) and he is silent.
I've been had with that one too, Exos!

I found all the contact details I needed within a week of D Day, but hung onto them for nearly two years, until I found this forum, as I said.

During that time, I rang OW on both her mobile phone numbers. When she refused to speak to me on one, I rang her on the other and left a message, quoting her home landline number. I said that if I didn't hear from her, I would ring the landline and leave a message there. Of course, that meant her H or kids could receive it.

She freaked out and rang me. She promised that she would never contact my H, saying that she had already left Belgium anyway for a new job in Luxembourg, that my H had made it clear that he wanted me and she accepted that, that the affair was OVER.

She then continued to contact my H at work and beg him to travel again. I had a hard job getting him to confess this contact, and it only ended when I ended the secrecy that she was enjoying, by finally contacting her H.

I only realised that I had given this woman carte blanche to have sex with my H because I colluded with her. I told myself, and her, that I was too decent to hurt her innocent H and kids by contacting them. I only wanted her to stay out of my marriage. She promised that she would.

I had her H's contact details for nearly two years, as I told you. I let the affair continue for those two years, through about 6 D Days. As the affair took place only when he was abroad for work, it was impossible for me to detect. After D Day, he left his work-supplied mobile phone in the office, so I could not see the sex messages being sent both ways every day. We had no computer or internet in the house during those years, so there was no opportunity for snooping. She never called our landline during the entire affair. The affair was conducted using workplace resources and physically while he was abroad. It was easy for him to gaslight me and tell me it was all over.

Again; you've been had, mate. Worse; you're accepting sloppy seconds, because you know the affair is continuing and you are gobbling up this man's leftovers because you are afraid.


Are you prepared to stand up for your children, if not yourself?


I LOVE THIS!!! This is a PERFECT example TY soo much for posting this! laugh

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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
I read the humble thread before and was saddened to see it just cut off. I'm a little ashamed to be in the same boat.

BTW that's 2 very well aimed 2x4s from you Sapph, I suspect they were well needed.


I am sorry to be harsh and blunt, most of my posts are like that, I love all the explaining and such, but we have other people that do that, and they are very good at explaining.

I just say it as it is....

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EXPOSURE is defending the castle !

Quote
A quote from MULAN:
*******************
A boundary is not defined as "something I don't like."

A boundary is defined as "something I will defend no matter what."

A very common question is, "How do I enforce a boundary? How do I make my spouse stop lying, how do I make my spouse stop dating OP, how do I make my spouse start taking care of our family instead of someone else's?"

The answer is: You don't.

Trying to "make" people do the things listed above is not enforcing a boundary. It's control, it's manipulation, it's laying down demands, etc. etc. etc.

And none of it works.

The answer to the question, "How Do I Enforce A Boundary?" is virtually always the same:

You remove yourself from the situation. You stop allowing the boundary trespasser to have any access to you at all.

This is what's meant by, "You can't control others. You can only control yourself."

You can't "make" your spouse stop lying to you - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse stop dating OP - - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse take care of your family instead of someone else's - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

Get the idea now?

Boundaries are for *you*. They are to protect you from people who would do you harm. They are NOT about "making" others do anything. They are about protecting *YOU*.

Castle walls don't make the invaders stop their cruel and destructive attitudes - but they do protect you from their intrusion.

Boundaries are castle walls.
******************

When you EXPOSE the ADULTERY .... YOU are defending your castle boundary.


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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
As for Fog, probably. Possibly made a bit thicker by no evidence of contact between them and also improved relationship at home.

Yes, you are in a fog if your standards are so low that you think this defines an "improved" relationship:

Originally Posted by Esox
The hurtful comments are things like her chatting to a friend online and saying she has no regrets about her EA, the only regret being I messed up her opportunity to advance it to a PA.

As long as you keep her secret for her [enabling] she has a chance to go back and fulfill her dream of a PA.

See, just ending contact - for now - does not mean this is over. It means she is just as foggy and will either resume this affair or go onto the next. She will still be foggy and engrossed in the fantasy because affairs thrive on secrecy. By keeping her affair a secret, you fuel her fantasy.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.

And of equal importance is the immorality of not telling her other victim, the OM's wife. The OMW can't very well protect herself from your wife and her H if she doesn't know. They are free to continually stab her in the back. Your wife is FREE to continue to pursue a PA with her husband.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I've been had with that one too, Exos!

I found all the contact details I needed within a week of D Day, but hung onto them for nearly two years, until I found this forum, as I said.

During that time, I rang OW on both her mobile phone numbers. When she refused to speak to me on one, I rang her on the other and left a message, quoting her home landline number. I said that if I didn't hear from her, I would ring the landline and leave a message there. Of course, that meant her H or kids could receive it.

She freaked out and rang me. She promised that she would never contact my H, saying that she had already left Belgium anyway for a new job in Luxembourg, that my H had made it clear that he wanted me and she accepted that, that the affair was OVER.

She then continued to contact my H at work and beg him to travel again. I had a hard job getting him to confess this contact, and it only ended when I ended the secrecy that she was enjoying, by finally contacting her H.

I only realised that I had given this woman carte blanche to have sex with my H because I colluded with her. I told myself, and her, that I was too decent to hurt her innocent H and kids by contacting them. I only wanted her to stay out of my marriage. She promised that she would.

I had her H's contact details for nearly two years, as I told you. I let the affair continue for those two years, through about 6 D Days. As the affair took place only when he was abroad for work, it was impossible for me to detect. After D Day, he left his work-supplied mobile phone in the office, so I could not see the sex messages being sent both ways every day. We had no computer or internet in the house during those years, so there was no opportunity for snooping. She never called our landline during the entire affair. The affair was conducted using workplace resources and physically while he was abroad. It was easy for him to gaslight me and tell me it was all over.

Again; you've been had, mate. Worse; you're accepting sloppy seconds, because you know the affair is continuing and you are gobbling up this man's leftovers because you are afraid.


Are you prepared to stand up for your children, if not yourself?

Esox hangs his head in shame frown


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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
[

Having read the messages (before they knew I knew) they were concerned about this risk but that seemed to add to the excitement. The words "forbidden fruit" and "Eve in the garden" were written.

It is also clear they were not in FEAR of their lives. They were merely excited about fooling others. Again, they are not afraid, why are you? The OM knows this family better than your W and you. He is not afraid.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
Having read the messages (before they knew I knew) they were concerned about this risk but that seemed to add to the excitement. The words "forbidden fruit" and "Eve in the garden" were written.
I'm beginning to think you're here because you enjoy the intellectual debate, not because you are in a desperate fight for your marriage. You're actually joking about this, with the "bridge" comment. I can assure you that nobody is joking with you about how spineless you are being, and what the consequences will be.

I went to OWH because, while I was more than happy to ditch to my own immoral, gutless adulterer of a husband, I would not let an outsider (OW) push me into that decision because she would not stop contacting my H. I would not let actions her force to me remove my children's father from their home. I would give my life for my children, and in your position I would certainly risk a beating (from whomever to whomever) to give them the chance of keeping their family intact and their mother at home.

You might be enjoying bantering here on your thread but your cowardliness concerning your children shocks me.


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Originally Posted by EsoxIreland
Esox hangs his head in shame frown
You're like a judge at a debate between teams. "A Well-aimed 2x4 there, Sapphire." "Good point, Melody Lane!" "Nice one, SugarCane!"

Shame on you for acting this way when your children's family life is at risk. All I can say is, I never found my H's affair to be a game that I was willing to play.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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