Your H is in an active affair, probably a physical one. You can't rebuild anything while he is still in his affair. I see you posted on the Scotland's thread for newbies. Have you read everything on that thread, to include the links? Start there, gathering enough information about what your H is doing; then expose the affair to everyone that can help end it.

Read, read, read on this site.

AM

PS There are few marriage counselors who provide any benefit. Most do more harm than good.

I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, MJ, but welcome.

Yes, armymama is right. Your H is 100% having at least an EA, most likely a PA. And possibly with more than one woman.

I would suggest that you start some world-class snooping. Get a keylogger for the computer. Get a VAR for the car. Can you access his cell phone records? Can you go through his phone and get ALL his contacts & numbers? Get those and keep them for now. Later you may need to call all of them to be sure they're really who he has them listed as.

The goal is to find enough solid intel that you can show him to confirm the A. You need to provide proof. As far as I'm concerned, the nail went in his coffin when you found OW's number under his boss' name. My FWH had OWs number listed under a fake business name in case I ever looked at his contacts.

Also - his attempt to blame you for any of his failings is a typical WS trick. Don't let that upset you, and don't accept any blame for his actions. You have done nothing that would give him permission to be unfaithful to you. Too many BS's come here, blaming themselves for their spouse's A. The BS is NEVER to blame for an A.

The thing that alarms me the most is the adult dating sites. No faithful spouse uses those for visual entertainment. They serve one purpose - to find a mate.

Please start reading all of the articles on this site. It will prepare you for what you need to do. Snoop and get the goods, then tell us what you have found.

Don't tell your H about this site, and don't let him know about your snooping! This will require some fine acting on your part, because you need to act normal, regardless of what you find. Can you do that?

I think if you snoop, you will find there is way more going on than your H keeping in touch with a friend from high school. He has lied about speaking with her; he kept her number a secret and he has unaccountable time.

Gather information about what exactly is happening. There should be a link to the spying 101 thread. Take a look on it, and figure out what information you need to know. Then expose to those who can assist in breaking up the A.

I discovered my H's A when OW sent him a text message. A few days later, when the phone bill arrived, I discovered H and OW had been talking/texting many times a day. It was easy for me after that. H admitted to the A. Others here have hired PIs to gather information. Many As have been busted via the use of keyloggers.

Figure out what information you might need to gather and how to do it.



AM

When you have solid proof that there is an A occurring it will be difficult for anyone to pass it off as 'just keeping in touch with a high school friend.'

I'm not going to 2x4 you. I understand where you're coming from right now - this is all still new to you and you're trying to process everything. And that's fine. But you need to keep reading here and learn how to kill this A.

Most newbies are afraid of exposure - it sounds counter-intuitive. But believe me, it works! My H's A ended the day he was exposed. He is eternally grateful that he was exposed, because he felt he was on a terrible ride and didn't know how to get off. Exposure got him off the ride.

Keep reading, MJ.

Bumping from page 6. I know I'm really long-winded and it's a lot to read, but I really need some advice/help figuring all this out!

editing to add:

I tried my hand at spying on his phone (I already have his computer and email passwords) I installed an SMS tracker on his phone to have all sent/received texts sent to my email. (since he deletes texts before he come home usually)

It didn't work. He found it, uninstalled it, and called me to tell me he can't trust me if I am going to spy on him.

I've got to learn to be more "sneaky" about this spying thing!

This is such a busy board- I'm going to reply to myself again. I have a question about Plan A-- maybe I am misunderstanding it.

I know that during this time I need to get WH to agree to NC and cut everything off. I need to expose to everyone if he won't go "cold turkey". I need to work on making our home life as pleasant as possible, work on improving myself, and meeting his EN's.

Are we allowed to discuss the A's and causes during this time? I know that, in the Q&A column on Plan A & Plan B- Dr. Harley says that during the negotiations to end the A- all the causes should be addressed. On the other hand- WH becomes very angry when I want to discuss why this happened.

To do a plan A the "right" way- which one is more important if I have to choose just one for now? Getting to the root of it, or making him see what a good marriage we could have?

If I try to get to the root of it and he becomes angry, then aren't I just driving him back to OW? Wouldn't that create the mindset of "at least OW doesn't expect me to have difficult conversations like BS does" BUT- if I don't get to the root of it, and find out why ENs are being filled by this A- how can I work on meeting those needs?

I'm asking b/c last night WH wanted to talk about whats wrong with me (I mentioned to him that I was looking into going back into IC) He was at work, and could only text, so I told him I appreciated him wanting to discuss this, and let him know that I do feel its important to talk about, so we set a "talk date" for Friday (when we both have a day off)

So, is there a way to have that conversation that follows MB principals during a Plan A?

I think you have to get at the root of the problem but maybe decide together a time line to discuss things, a few questions a day, and hour a week whatever you decide and the rest of the time you work at just re-building the relationship.....
my husband doesn't like discussing the why's either, but he does understand why.
Keep everything safe and he won't mind the discussions, let him explain how he is feeling and why he got to where he got to....you can tell your side and have him understand how you have felt and how you feel now.......
The marriage is both your responsibility and the problems are from both sides and need to be understood and corrected by both of you...
The affair is his decision and his responsibility and something he needs to work on and understand, he will make sure he puts a plan into effect so he will never be in any kind of position ever again to let this happen.....
He must understand that while he is involved with someone else that he cannot work on your marriage, if he is not willing then you will have to go to a Plan B until he does.....Tell him you will work on things if he can offer you this, that you love him but not while there is someone else in your marriage.
good luck

What are you going to IC for? You do your Plan A. Do not forget to adminster the stick of Plan A with exposure and not engaging in WH's wayward "logic." You can't control WH's reactions. If he goes running off to OW, then let him go. Do not be a doormat or let him gaslight you. If you fear WH's anger, his reactions, or worry about what other people think, it will be your undoing.

Stopping his cheating, PA, EA, internet activity is the first step. There are many "reasons" why people justify their cheating but at the end of the day they choose to put themselves ahead of their spouses out of selfishness and thoughtlessness. That is the root of the A.

I wouldn't do this yet, not if you are in Plan A and still trying to end the A.


Showing him what a good M you can have. If he's still in the A he is so foggy he cannot even begin to see the "root of it" and it's fruitless to discuss it.


Possibly, yes.

Is he still in the A? Is he admitting that he is?

How long have you been in Plan A?

Have you tried a Voice Activated Digital Recorder hidden in his auto (secured under the front seat with velcro)???

It won't catch text massages and IM's but eventually, with patience, you'll get the exact conversation you were meant to.

Trust HIM... give me a break

Mr. W

not sure which program you used/phone company/ or phone but there are some of those prgrams that you can install without the other person knowing it. It runs in the background of the phone and doesn't show up as an active program. There is an app for the Iphone and for the blackberry.

black_raven is right to do a good plan A there needs to be a carrot (nicey nicey) and stick to it... i think Pep has the threat about that here some place will try and bump it for you. As for exposure, evidence then expose... NUCLEAR style.

Thank you for all the responses, you've given me a lot to think about.

Jessi-


I think that's a good point. I want to get to the root of this, but you're right, it shouldn't be all our time together. I need to make sure I spend most of our UA time focusing on the more pleasant things.


This is what I am anticipating as a problem. We have had these conversations many times in the past. He always (A) apologizes that his actions hurt me and (B) promises to never do it again. Which sounds promising. But he's never admitted that it was an affair or even wrong. He's sorry that I am upset, but doesn't think he has crossed the line. That, and he always does do it again.

Maybe if we can discuss this in bits and pieces we can make some real progress.

Black Raven-


A few reasons. I've been struggling with depression for a long time now (years before I met WH). I haven't gotten help consistently since we've been married though. I know this is something I really need to get a handle on. Also- I'm getting to the point where I don't think WH will ever change. I hope he will. I hope we can save our M. I will fight tooth and nail to do so. BUT- this, the way things have been and the way things are, is killing me. I need something to help me through this.


Thank you for that. I don't like hearing it, but I know you're right. And it reminded me that I wanted to print out that stick and carrot post. I read it a few days ago- I need to keep a copy handy though.

Married Forever-


As far as I know, he is. I've been having trouble getting concrete proof, but when I asked for NC he kept OWs # in his phone.

He's not admitting it. He has "trickle down" honesty. He will "come clean" about the things I confront him over. But he won't admit to things he thinks he might have successfully hidden. EX: he will talk about the adult sites he joined "years ago" but no mention of the ones he signed up for in July. He admits that he used to IM and call OW- but claims it's been over a year- when I saw a text from him to her at the beginning of this month.

Plan A? I guess officially only a week. But, before now I didn't know about this site or that what I was doing (trying to do) had a name

I have been trying to meet his needs, keep our home clean, make sure everything runs smoothly so he has minimal stress, and make time for the two of us for at least four years now.

There are times that are harder than others- deployments when he was active duty, guard drill & the police academy since then. Sometimes I lose my patience and it takes a while to get back on track.

Mr. Wondering-


Not yet. I am trying to find a time to actually get this. I know that sounds like an excuse- but this past week has been so insane with all the "other" stuff that needs to be done. My job, meetings with my boss who only comes to town once a month, meetings with the school and scouts, and church- there just hasn't been any spare time. I should have time to go look for one tomorrow though.

StrongerThanB4-


We have the android with cell. south, and I chose a free app. I know that wasn't the smartest choice, but this time of month is hard money wise (mortgage, insurance, electric, and tuition for the kids all come out at one time- yikes!) so I couldn't find the money for one of the better ones.

I get a bonus at the end of the month- it's the only money I make that is just mine (usually I put it towards continued education to keep my training certification up to date, or registration for races) It sucks that this month I will be spending it to find out the extent of WH's A. But, it will have to be done.

MJ there is an application on the android market. As soon as i get to my phone again i will look up the exact name you need to type in and about how much it will cost you.... i believe it was 1.99.

Now as for you having a hard time finding time to do things or get them done, you just need to make that time.

I know that there are family and work obligations, BTDT but i have even now had to be come creative with how i get things done that i needed to or need to.

In this case you need to snoop and get evidence.

Have you talked about or thought about investing in the MB coaching?

STB4-


I'll look at those again. I read the reviews for some of them, but there's always a fair amount of negative ones. That, and I stayed away from anything with "spy" in the name- in case he did find it!


I do understand this. I wasn't trying to say that I wouldn't/couldn't get the VAR- just that I literally had NO time earlier this week. I was up and on the go from 6am-8pm the last three days- this week has been killing me! I was able to leave work at 3 today- and, miracle of miracles- no scout meeting, science fair meetings, or 1st communion meetings. I actually got to come home.

I did go to Best Buy before coming home though and picked up the VAR- now I just need to wait for a moment alone with WH's car.



Yes, and it's not going to happen. At least not now, with the way WH reacted to it. I wish it was something that could be considered, but when I first brought it up (when I asked for NC) he had a couple of objections...

1) He doesn't think our insurance will cover it (any military spouses know if he is wrong about this?) If he's right- it is a valid point. It's going to sound like an excuse- but money truly IS an issue for us. There is no price tag on what our marriage is worth to me- but paying nearly $200 out of pocket for each phone session is more than we can afford right now.

That's one of the reasons I am here. It's going to take a lot of saving to be able to afford all of this- and I had hoped that the forums would be a useful tool in the mean time.

2) He is adamantly opposed to counseling- and particularly MB. Things got pretty heated when I brought up the book I was reading, and some of the information I had found online. He refuses to consider anything that "advocates a wife moving out, taking the kids and refusing to talk to her husband" And why why would I "even consider that breaking up a marriage and not talking at all would fix problems that mostly stem from not having enough time together?"

Quoting myself from a few days ago...

Trust me when i tell you i do know. I am a single mom to an awesome 3 year old and my job is very demanding. Less demanding than my previous employer but non-the less still time consuming. I know what it feels like to have those weeks and you are just so happy to be HOME and no place else so congrats on that.


very cool.... that's what i ment about trying to find time to get things done... As most people will tell you you need a plan. No need a plan/list/ goals to achieve. Right now yours is to get the intel. Did you read the carrot and stick of plan A that was bumped earlier?


ok again i know what you mean. I was asking merely for the fact that you said something about the bounus... i was thinking more along the lines of you contacting them and having atleast one session with Steve H or Jennifer to help you get your plan together. The information they can provide as the professionals from my understanding is nothing but exceptional.

After my DD is all tucked in i will do some research to help you find a "good" program for the android. I have one and a tech savy person that can help with that. Will be back later with that info for you.