It's really amazing how your perspective changes once you are out of your marriage for awhile...in my case, about a year and a half. When you are trying to recover your marriage, you can get so mired in infidelity that you can't see the forest for the trees. I can't believe I spent so much time and energy thinking about it. There's isn't a woman on Earth worth expending that sort of emotional energy for, especially one who threw you out with the garbage. Also remember that most people do not fundamentally change in adulthood. Sure, they may straighten their act out for months or even years, but is that person really worth the gamble? Can you not do better? You must realize that you deserve better than that, and you CAN do better than that.

Regarding the original post: There is no "fantasy". The WS may not have been as in love with OP as they thought, because it was more "lust" or "infatuation", but whatever feelings they had were and are every bit as real as any feelings they've ever had for you, or anyone else. That's something you should deal with, rather than using the Boogeyman Tactic and telling yourself it wasn't real because you don't like it.

As far as the financial impact of divorce: It can be profound. I have 3 kids and my ex doesn't work. She gets 40% of my net pay, and I'm lower-middle class. I've never been one day late or one dollar short. I'm stuck in a decent 2 bedroom apartment for now, and I drive a car with 80,000 miles on it. Guess what? It's worth every penny and then some. My kids have adjusted very well, I have them half the time, I'm still able to meet women, and the ones who are worth a flip understand my predicament. It won't be this way forever. Eventually my ex will have to work because 40% of my salary isn't really enough to live on, and at that point I will have that 40% reduced dramatically.

One of my favorite sayings is "Divorce is a bargain at any price". I wouldn't let financial implications factor into my decision to stay or leave at all.

Divorce isn't half the monster infidelity is.

This is not an excuse for and affair but I thought I would offer somewhat of an explanation from the perspective of a WS.

I am different than the OP in that there is nothing I did with the OM that I haven't or wouldn't do with my H

However, there are things that I just didn't enjoy anymore with my H that I did with the OM and here is why.

PreA, my H would comment negatively about things I did wrong during sex. He would sometimes roll over in a huff if I didn't do it right.

Other non sexual times, he would make derogetory comment about a woman's size or smell. Even though they weren't directed at me, I was concerned that he was thinking that when we were intimate.

My OM was nothing but flattering. He hadn't had sex in a long time (or so he said) and was just happy to be doing anything. He didn't do anything better than my H, he just had me believing that I was the end all and be all of his fantasies. In reality I know that couldn't have been the case and of course if I lived with him, I would surely notice his disdain for others and apply them to myself just as I had with my H.

The difference is in my fantasy world, the OM made it all about me. By demanding various sex acts the OP's H is making it all about him.

Only the OP knows for sure why she refuses to participate in specific acts...if they are truly vile to her or if is some sort of passive aggressiveness toward her H.

All I know is the way I was able to be open sexually with my OM was more about me than him. Even now it is hard for me to imagine that my H is enjoying sex with me knowing what he has said and done in the past....he doesn't do it anymore so I am hopeful.

We all do things we are ashamed of at one point or another...to ask someone to repeat that to show their love isn't really loving.

Asking a WS to repeat sex acts they performed with OP isn't loving, you are correct...but it's not nearly as bad as betrayal, either.

You were able to perform them with OP for a cheap thrill. If you are unwilling to perform them with your BS to help his/her emotional state, then you just don't care that much. It's still more about what you want than helping your spouse. What you should do, if you really care, is suck it up and take one for the team...or in this case, your marriage.

I think the fantasy deal is an oft misunderstood one - Krazy, you are correct, that the feelings themselves in an affair are absolutely REAL - However, those feelings do not exist in a real life setting - I liken it to shows like The Bachelor/Bachelorette - They take those people and provide them with a total fantasy world - they are living in mansions that they are not paying for - driving fancy Italian sports cars that they are also not paying for - being styled by stylists in clothes they aren't paying for - eating gourmet meals that they neither cooked or paid for - traveling to tropical paradises, again, gratis - Everyone is putting their best foot forward and so on - Who couldn't have a whirlwind romance in that type of setting? And that is the point [or should be] when anyone makes the "fantasy argument"...

I'm glad to hear that you are doing well, Krazy. I'm glad that for you, divorce was the definition of success and personal recovery. I'm also glad that for us, it was not.

Mrs. W

Hey Krazyman! Did someone call you? Or did I speak your name and you appeared?

I'm glad you got what you paid for

Mrs W why did you tell your mom?

How did she threaten the OM to go NC?

Your are right not nearly as bad as a betrayal.

I think if I were in the position of the OP, I would perform whatever was necessary.

I also think I would potentially resent it and subsequently be repulsed by my DH.

I sort of know of what I speak. Thankfully none of this has come up AFTER my affair...but it did before.

I did things I am ashamed of with my H. Because I wanted to make him happy. Because I had no boundaries.

I just don't want to see the same thing happen to the OP out of guilt or whatever.

Well the problem there is that eventually the woman would develop a sexual aversion, and for sure then the man's needs wouldn't be getting met...That is not the solution, Krazy...That plan will not create romantic love and will not restore the marriage...Scream and yell "unfair" and "unjust" all you like, but those are the facts.

Mrs. W

You are aware that the poster who originally started this entire argument was being asked to participate in a threesome with her BH right? Apparently, she did that with the OM so now her H expected her to do it with him. IMO, a threesome constitutes adultery, since it invites a 3rd party into the marriage. How could more adultery be the solution to healing from an A?

If it wasn't a real life setting, then why call it betrayal? Why does this website even exist?

Of course the setting was real. The hotel room OM had sex with my ex in was real. So was the desk, the floor, and my couch. Just because they don't end up eloping to Vegas doesn't mean it wasn't a real life setting. They had sex like monkeys in one real life setting, then went home to their spouses in a different setting.

There are many self-deceiving tricks a BS can use in an attempt to soften the blow of betrayal. I'm just not the type who can deceive myself like that.

No, I didn't realize that, and that does change things.

What the BH should do is divorce her asap. There are words to describe a woman like that, but I won't bother posting them here. Those types never change, either.

Hi writer

Just for the sake of accuracy I don't believe anyone on this thread has asked for a threesome. It would be just as much adultery as any other act involving a third party. It probably isn't a valid argument to accuse those that aren't of doing so.

Thanks.

Jim

Hmmm...and the WS should be grateful that the BS is even willing to touch him or her. Talk about an aversion.

And this is what I was talking about earlier. When we are discussing from the viewpoint that waywards don't change, and if they do they still aren't worth it.....than why even discuss?

I need to go home and kiss my DH, who apparently an even rarer gem than I thought.

My mom and I are very close - we talk daily - Naturally during the affair I pulled away from her - that is a common thing for a wayward to do - pull away from all the good and right things in their lives - My mom was BUGGING the pea soup outta me asking "What's wrong?"...Finally, I was sick of hearing the question and I blurted out what was going on - and that was all she wrote - My mom was HORRIFIED and beyond PISSED...There was no putting the "genie back in the bottle"...

OM was in financial dire straits due to his divorce [which was final BEFORE he contacted me]...ANYWAY, my mom's threats were regarding telling OM's parents - showing up on their doorstep and telling them - He was living with his parents at the time - He KNEW, as did my mom, since she knew his parents, that they would kick him out for what he was doing - Also she might have "implied", HEAVILY, that Mr. W's family was part of the "Greek Mafia"! [They are NOT!] Bottom line - she scared OM silly - and really, we got lucky, because threats are most definitely a BAD IDEA - OM just knew that my mom was 100% willing to carry out her "threats" - he realized they weren't really threats, but rather, PROMISES...

Mrs. W

You are missing what I mean - Not "real" in the sense that there are no mortgages between affair partners - no morning breath - no vomiting and diarrhea viruses - no screaming children - no REAL LIFE bad stuff - It's all everyone smells great and is putting on a show...IT IS NOT THE SAME AS REAL LIFE - It does NOT have the same everyday problems that marriages have - It's like a teenage relationship - Someone else is footing the bill - both emotionally and financially - It SUCKS - It's HORRIBLY WRONG...We all get that - but for sure it's a fantasy life - waywards run from real life - waywards are escapists...

Mrs. W

Who said the WS isn't grateful? Who says the WS doesn't become a FWS and completely get how lucky and blessed they are?

Mrs. W

My point wasn't that a WS intentionally deceives their BS into thinking they've changed. They probably honestly believe they have...but what about a year from now? 10 years from now? The bottom line is that history tends to repeat itself at some point, and believing a WS has changed is akin to believing a wife-abuser has changed. It's generally not worth the risk.

Luri~

It doesn't matter what anyone here believes to be true about you or other FWSs - As long as you and your DH know what's real and true, well, that's all that matters -

Mrs. W

I guess you can check with my DH in 20 years or so to see if I became a sl*t again.

I used to have this recurring dream right after I got married and got away from my mom (who I love but who is always right and has selective hearing). I would be trying to explain something to her and she just kept talking without hearing anything I said. it didn't matter what I said, she just ignored it all and kept thinking what she thought. I would end up crying and screaming and hitting the pillow and DH would have to wake me up.

That's how this thread makes me feel. And I am still trying to explain, and just like Mom in the dream, it isn't going to help.