loori...

If you wish to remain here and not drive yourself batty at some point you have to distance yourself from the notion that they are talking about you.

Betrayed Spouses have a process they go through too....and it often takes them in and out of this anger stage...where they over generalize and underempathize with those anonymous individuals on the internet. Sometimes it's not just a stage but righteous anger that expresses itself, appropriately or not (which can often just be a couple of word choices away from each other) whenever betrayed perceive/witness a wrong having to do with this very sensitive and deeply personal issue.

Toughening up your skin is good practice for the next mistake we are all (betrayeds and waywards) bound to make...given time.

My wife and I remain thankful you are here.

Mr. Wondering

I usually have pretty thick skin. But I also made a promise to DH that I would either stop doing "personal" forum topics altogether or have the good judgment to step away when I am headed for danger. he told me if I couldn't protect myself then he would step in a protect me. I haven't done a very good job of keeping my promise the past couple of days, and I don't want him playing hero so I need to exercise my grown up judgment here.

This could be applied to almost any mistake then. If we buy into the fact that no one who ever makes a mistake can change, so they should never be trusted again, then we would never trust anyone with anything, because everyone makes mistakes.

Sorry, I was referring to Ookfish's thread, which no, is not the topic of this thread, though her situation has been mentioned here a few times.

I can't control my wife and I'm not a fortune teller.

But I think my wife and family are well worth the risk.

I ALSO KNOW...

that I have changed...so the premise that change isn't possible doesn't resonate with me (which is fortunate because, statistically, it's the betrayed spouse that is the most likely to cheat the next time).


Mr. W

I can't think of too many mistakes I've literally vowed not to make.

If your wife does this, she'll lose a little bit of love. Eventually, there won't be any left, and there won't be a marriage, either.

That's certainly anybody's choice if they want it.

Quid pro quo...

Why are you at marriage builders???

Can you give us just a little bit of your story so we can get some idea of where you are coming from???

All I've seen is that your wife apparently cheated on you many years ago and it creeps up into your consciousness from time to time and your wife punishes you if you ever bring it up (but you seem to be carrying around some deep resentments which should be addressed but we can't help you address what you won't acknowledge)

Married nearly 30 years, right???

Mr. Wondering

I'm not an expert on this, but in the realms of Christianity, there is only one unforgivable sin, and Adultery isn't it. Therefore, an adulterer is capable of repentance and can change and be forgiven. Every BS may not chose to offer that forgiveness, but some certainly do, and I don't think it's good to tell those BS who chose this road of forgiveness and recovering their marriages is not worth the risk. It may not have been worth it to you, but it is very much worth it to some.

Hi writer,

I agree with you and I (and Mrs.Flint) are among those who considered each other and our M worth it. In the beginning she was not on board but when faced with the only choices of do the plans or divorce she reluctantly started doing them. As we progressed she saw the value to HERSELF in doing them and THEN to the M. For that we are blessed. Thank you.

Jim

I think this is what was different. No offense to MrWondering, he's probably a great guy. I doubt he's a better guy than me, except maybe in choosing who would end up being his WW.

(There's probably no way to clean that up, it's going to offend someone. I'd like to invoke SouthPark status where everyone expects to be offended and just deals with it, LOL)

In my case, and I suspect more cases than not, the WW's parents are not horrified by their daughter's affair, but support it, either tacitly by saying they won't get involved, or actively such as in my case, having the married OM in their home as a guest for the holidays, knowing their daughter is married.

What I want any BH to know out of all of this is that it's more likely external factors that will provide an opportunity for success than anything else.

If the affair doesn't blow up, or the families of the affair partners keep it on some sort of life support, then it will likely live a long time.

In my case, the affair was a long distance relationship. So in addition to the "support" provided by my XWW's family, they didn't spend a lot of time together, so there were few chances for them to LB one another.

Since the family "approved" since she closed the love bank to me, and since he had little chance to LB given he saw her one day a week, the affair flourished long after she got the divorce she wanted.

Not even exposure is a sure fire route as I did a pretty thorough exposure and folks simply didn't care enough to take any sort of stand against the affair.

Like I said, folks standing around watching abuse happen and not caring enough to even say anything, let alone take action.

Heck, not even my mother cared. Early in XWW's affair I was trying to talk to my mother about it and instead of listening to me, she wanted me to fix her printer 800+ miles away.

I never spoke with my mom about it again after that little show of concern, LOL.

Thats shocking Enlightened, I am really surprise to hear that. Although we have to remember that in todays society affairs seem to be rife, I think some people look at those who have affairs as they are not getting what they need from a M. I am not saying this is right, far from it, it just seems to be a common view.

It was only when I came here, I realised what a terrible thing I did.

In my view, you should give your partner the opportunity to meet those ENS and only once you have filed for D and moved on should you consider another partner.

Ofcourse, I learnt the hard way, and am actually really bloody annoyed at myself as I always had this approach to relationships.

I guess there's just no way to know what works, and the same thing won't work in every case.

My mother didn't say a word when my H exposed my A to her. I talked to the OM on the phone at her house and she never said a thing.

My A was also long distance (really long, like 3000 miles), so except for the 3 times we were together on campus, it was entirely conducted over the internet and phone. No much chance for LB's there either.

What brought me around was my H's unwavering decision to see this through and fight for our M. He never backed down. He never gave up. He ignored all the crap I was spewing about how I didn't love him anymore and we didn't have anything in common and the OM was my soul mate, and he just loved me. He did his best to meet my EN's even when I wouldn't let him. He found sneaky ways to get it in there regardless. And eventually, his devotion to our marriage and his unwillingness to give up broke through the fog and I started to see a little light shining through. It took a long time, but it did happen. If he had given up sooner, we probably wouldn't be here today. I will always be grateful for his love and his patience.

I think you are right, EE - Mr. W and I are both VERY GRATEFUL that I have the mom that I do...I did have an excellent moral upbringing - Unfortunately, all that was taught to me did NOT sink in until much, much later - Only after the affair did I truly understand what my mom had meant every time she preached "Mrs. W, times may change, but morals never do" as I was growing up - I rolled my eyes at her for years about that, until I really, really understood what she meant...I am thankful the penny finally dropped - Til this day, a full five years later, I still thank Mr. W and my mom for all that they did for me back then - I still tell them how sorry I am that I put them in that position...I do not deserve the grace and mercy that I have been shown, but I will NEVER EVER stop being grateful for it, and doing all that I can [actions and words] to show it...

Mrs. W

P.S. EE, I'm sure you are a wonderful man - just like Mr. W - I have never doubted that, btw. Course you have been kinda "snarky" today! [Can't get mad at me for saying that either - Southpark Rule, yanno!]

Rare indeed.... But by being willing and able to take responsibility for your adultery and then change, YOU are a rare breed of FWW yourself!

Don't let it bother you - it's just the internet, and some people think it's SERIOUS BIZNESS. (Including me, from time to time, sigh)

That is, unless you have inner insecurities about wavering in your newfound commitment. Could that explain your emotional reaction to this thread? Not accusing, just wondering.

Can I barf at any kumbaya moments?

**invoking South Park Rule #23**

THIS. Quoted for truth. That is the problem with infidelity. I was raised to honor the most sacred of vows. So was my XWW. The problem is, I DID honor them, even in the face of temptation. She did not.
It's hard to believe that someone can be trusted once they've committed the "Ultimate Sin" in marriage. And few CAN BE. It's wonderful to see some of the FWS's on here who seem genuine - but much like an addict, they have to be "in recovery" for life, with EPs in place. I see a lot of FWS's with pride seeping in, and particularly BHs on here who describe their alleged "Former" WWs who are not on board with recovery as they should be. My heart bleeds for those BSs, who are SO GOOD and so FORGIVING that they are walking towards another disaster....

Hi Krazy!