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What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them...

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But what about their children Tom? Their INNOCENT children that have had their lives shattered, their precious sense of security DESTROYED by those responsible for their well-being. Children who had no choice in the matter. Children who will bear the scars of their destroyed childhoods for the REST OF THEIR LIVES?

But thats ok - as long as Skank and Himbo get their 'one true love' and are happy - it's ok.

These children have had their worlds come tumbling down, destroyed by the people they love the most. They've learned that it's ok to hurt others, even innocents, to make yourself happy. They've learned that selfishness is justified. They've learned that responsibility is all good and fine until it cramps your style and life gets a little rough.

My husband has no understanding of divorce. He doesn't get it. Why? Because he saw his parents FIGHT for their marriage. Through thick and thin, through good times and bad, when they were getting along, when they weren't - didn't matter, they stuck it out and you know - they have a pretty amazing marriage now. My husband learned you don't bail when things get tough, because the WILL get better.

THAT is a much better lesson to learn that the abject selfishness and irresponsibility these two people are demonstrating to their children.

This mother has just said to her children: your safety and security, your happiness, are not as important as MINE. This man has said to his children, the mother you love and who is half of you is not worth my effort.

But as long as they're 'happy' then these are ok lessons to teach?

I'm sorry I would never want my daughter to destroy the lives of others, to place herself before her children. Were she to do so I would count myself a failure as a mother, for failing to instill in her basic decency, morality, concern for the wellbeing of others and responsibility.

This type of behavior is all nice and funny when we're talking about 15 year old with no sense of responsibility. It's sickening when it's 2 adults with children and responsibilities they entered into WILLINGLY.

No Tom - no matter how you spin this, this is NOT ok.


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Well, Tom, what about the five children? Don't you think they matter? Is the so-called "happiness" of 4 adults worth shattering their worlds? I bet the kids would much rather have their intact families and homes than to have to split time between Mommy's and Daddy's!




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Quote
�...the long-term consequences of parental divorce for adult attainment and quality of life may prove to be more serious than the short-term emotional and social problems in children.� (Amato & Keith, 1991)

�...children from disrupted families are significantly more likely to express discon�tent with their lives as measured by an in�dex of life satisfaction.� (Furstenberg & Teitler, 1994).


Children can sometimes experience what might be called the �sleeper effect�. They recover rather quickly following the divorce, but because of denied feelings at a subconscious level, feelings about the divorce may emerge at some point later in life. It is a delayed reaction. Professional counselors have shown that all kinds of traumatic experiences of childhood can be repressed in the subconscious. For example, sexual abuse or physical abuse might be �forgotten� for a number of years and emerge at some later point in adulthood. The same can be true of the trauma caused by divorce.

At a 5-year follow-up, one study of divorced children
(Wallerstein, 1985) showed:
1. Persistence of anger at the parent who had initiated the divorce.
2. Intensity of longing for the absent or erratically visiting parent.
3. Persistence of youngster�s wish to reconstitute the pre-divorce family.
4. Moderate to severe clinical depression in over one� third of the original sample.

At the 10-year follow-up with those same children of divorce (Wallerstein, 1985), the following information was gathered about the participants:
1. A dominant feeling of sorrow about their parents� divorce still existed.
2. Quotes from the young adults themselves:

�My life would have been happier if my parents hadn�t divorced.�

Divorce was better for them but not for me. I lost my family.�

�I lost the experience of growing up in a family unit.�

�I wish my mom and dad had not divorced. It would have been easier to be a regular family.�

�I was really hurt. The hardest thing was
watching my family break up.�

. Physically, these participants reported poorer physical health than children from intact families.


4. Emotionally, they indicated persistent problems
with the following:
� Fears of betrayal, abandonment, loss, and rejec�tion.
Rising anxiety in late teens and early 20s�feelings and memories about their parents� divorce arise with new intensity as they enter adulthood.
� Life-long vulnerability to the experience of loss.
� Anger, resentment, and hostility.
A reduction in psychological well-being.
Depression in young adulthood.
Low life satisfaction.
5. Socially, the children�s relationships in later life were affected as follows:
Divorcing parents apparently set the stage for children�s poor relationships.
Reduction in the ability to develop and maintain supportive friendships and dating relationships.
� Children of divorce are more likely themselves to divorce as adults.
� Earlier sexual intercourse.
� Delinquent behaviors.
� Daughters of divorce are more likely to:

�Marry and have children early
�Give birth before marriage
�Divorce

Fear of repeating his or her parents� failure to maintain a loving relationship.
Fear of commitment and intimacy.
Less trust in future spouse.
� Reduction of inhibitions toward divorce as a solution for marital difficulties.
Lower socioeconomic status.
� In relationship to their parents, adult children of divorce:
�Feel less affection for parents.
�Have less contact with them.
�Engage in fewer inter-generational exchanges of assistance than do other adults.
� Children of divorce tend to become more conservative morally than their parents. They also adopt more traditional views of how marriage and fam�ily ought to be.
Emphasis mine

Source

But it's ok - because now Mommy and Daddy are HAPPY!

ETA: Sometimes, tragically, divorce is NECESSARY. There are ways to overcome some of the problems listed here and the article I linked talks about those. However, it is absolutely reprehensible to have an affair, destroy a family, and expose children to this host of issues just so you can be 'happy'.

Last edited by Vibrissa; 12/22/10 02:21 AM. Reason: ETA and formatting

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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them...

that's awesome go on an infidelity board and just tell people who are trying to recovery from something like this that it's ok if you spouse cheats and quickly places you.... everyone deserves to be happy....AWESOME!


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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them...
Oh, yepper, it's all about 4 ADULTS casting about, ready to hook onto whatever will make them 'happy'.

I'm all for happy, but not at the expense of another human. And it's not just the BS. Look at those kids. frown Ugh. The sentence that just got handed to them will be carried by all of them for the rest of their lives.

But that's okay, isn't it. Because their parents are happy.





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Originally Posted by Scotland
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
And the killer? They didn't think they were in an affair! What the hell did they think they were in??? faint

How exactly does one fall in lurve with someone else when they are married WITHOUT having an affair? think
He must have been one of those waywards who were divorced "in their mind" before reality!

As for everyone being happier in the end, it doesn't matter. The ends don't justify the means. I'm happier since the divorce and from what I know, so are WXH, OW and OWXH. I still would never go through this again nor recommend it to anyone. I'm sure it took 10 years off my life. The kids? I can't truly say about OW's DD though interestingly enough she sought me out on facebook (she is only 9). I don't know what that's about. My own DS was 18 on d-day and before his 20th birthday got engaged and married. DIL is a sweetie and the two of them seem to have it together (they are travelling Europe right now) but early marriage is on that list of how children are affected by divorce.

There are many solutions to many different marital problems Infidelity is never one of them. If someone really can't bear the thought of being married any longer, why not just be straigh forward and honest about it? Do you really need to stab your BS in the back, rip his/her heart out, stomp on it and drag it through the mud??? Honestly, it isn't necessary. They'll give you a divorce without going to all that effort. Funny thing is the waywards who do the most damage are also the ones that want the "amicable divorce" - just like the wayturds in this article!

When someone called them "brave", I'm sure they didn't mean bravery as in fighting off lions bare-handed to protect their family. I'll bet dollars to donuts they were refering to the type of "bravery" that is associated with advanced stupidity. Like the idiots who try to outrun trains at crossings, or the snowmobilers who fall into the lake in the spring.

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So Tom, let's say a person's spouse dies. They had an average marriage - not spectacular.

The children are devastated by their parent's death. The remaining spouse terribly sad as well.

Would you give solace to the family by stating that "they might be happier in the long run"? crazy


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Originally Posted by Tabby1
There are many solutions to many different marital problems Infidelity is never one of them.

Apparently this is what the couple from the NYTimes article THINK they did.

Wayward thinking. They became unhappy with their spouses because they allowed inappropriate feelings for another to grow.

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Originally Posted by StrongerThanB4
Originally Posted by TomOlympus
What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them...

that's awesome go on an infidelity board and just tell people who are trying to recovery from something like this that it's ok if you spouse cheats and quickly places you.... everyone deserves to be happy....AWESOME!

By no means am I coming on saying that the affair was okay. No, DID NOT say that.

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Originally Posted by raindown
So Tom, let's say a person's spouse dies. They had an average marriage - not spectacular.

The children are devastated by their parent's death. The remaining spouse terribly sad as well.

Would you give solace to the family by stating that "they might be happier in the long run"? crazy

I do not understand how you are relating these 2 things. I do not see how they relate at all.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
Well, Tom, what about the five children? Don't you think they matter? Is the so-called "happiness" of 4 adults worth shattering their worlds? I bet the kids would much rather have their intact families and homes than to have to split time between Mommy's and Daddy's!

I do understand that kids are involved. Is it an easy situation for kids, by no means am I saying that. Are there situations where I think a divorce is better for all involved, even the kids? Yes. My parents are divorced, and I am very thankful for that. One of the best choices my mom ever made. It was not an easy road, but down the line, we were all bettere off from it.
Not every situation is the same, not every time will all parties benefit, I'm just saying, what if? If the kids do come out okay as well, and ALL (not just the two adults that cheated and left), ALL 4 of the adults involved end up in happier relationships with more fulfilling lives, that is the if I am stating.

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Tom,

What you describe doesn�t apply to this situation and you�re grossly whitewashing the impact on the kids about this. My parents divorced because of my father�s repeated infidelity, but I would have rather he quit cheating and saved his marriage.

I also had a wife that left me. I�m glad she�s out of my life, but I know for a fact my kids would have rather seen us together. My 8 year old has expressed as much, despite liking my new wife.

The object isn�t to stay in crappy marriages at any cost. The object is to turn crappy marriages into great ones and to keep good ones from becoming crappy. This is done for the kids.

No, the kids never really get over this, for the most part.

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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them..

Unlikely. Adulterers are not made "happy" by adultery, they are miserable. Only 5% of affairs end in marriage, of those 70% end in divorce under 5 years. They are doomed. We have one here just today where the affair wife is having an affair on her affair husband. Common sense should dictate that when you marry a cheater, they will cheat. And they always do!

Dr Harley says these affairages are "sheer hell" and "are far worse than the original marriages they left." The problem is that when the thrill wears off you are left with a skankho/scumbag who believes in adultery and practices all the traits that made the affair possible: dishonesty, thoughtlessness and selfishness. They made for TERRIBLE marriage material.

Dr Harley discusses how unhappy and doomed these affairages are on his show yesterday. then click on rebroadcast link from here


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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
do understand that kids are involved. Is it an easy situation for kids, by no means am I saying that. Are there situations where I think a divorce is better for all involved, even the kids? Yes. My parents are divorced, and I am very thankful for that. One of the best choices my mom ever made. It was not an easy road, but down the line, we were all bettere off from it.
Not every situation is the same, not every time will all parties benefit, I'm just saying, what if? If the kids do come out okay as well, and ALL (not just the two adults that cheated and left), ALL 4 of the adults involved end up in happier relationships with more fulfilling lives, that is the if I am stating.


Well, statistics don't support your case, though. Not for the kids and not for the cheaters. Studies show that kids suffer great psychological harm from divorce so your assertions that they are "happier" is mythological.

Being "happy" is not a justification for wrongdoing. Was Jeffrey Dahmer justified in serial killing because it "made him happy?" Of course not.

It is silly and unrealistic to say that "happiness" justifies anything and everything. That is a wayward mentality.

The truth is that being BAD does not make people happy, it makes them miserable and wrecks their lives. Happiness comes from being good, not bad. It is a fantasy that adultery makes people "happy;" it does not.

It is also damaging to teach kids that wrong is right and to teach that anything is justified for your personal "happiness." What a horrific message to send to kids! They are taught that stealing, lying, promiscuous behavior is all justified if it makes you happy.

Anything is justified using that "principle." This just causes moral confusion in children that wrecks their own lifes. They grow up to be little liars and cheaters who live a degrading lifestyle just like their parents. That is gross parental malpractice to role model adultery, dishonesty and promisiousness. Kids are ashamed to see their own parents act like wh*res.



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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
I do understand that kids are involved. Is it an easy situation for kids, by no means am I saying that. Are there situations where I think a divorce is better for all involved, even the kids? Yes. My parents are divorced, and I am very thankful for that. One of the best choices my mom ever made. It was not an easy road, but down the line, we were all bettere off from it.

There are situations where divorce is best for all concerned when the marriage cannot be salvaged. However, that is not the case here. These people abandoned their spouses and their children so they could shag each other. They wrecked the lives of many people for their own selfishness. That is NOT all right.


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Again, ML, I am not saying that the affair/cheating is what will make them or anyone else in the situation happy. I am not trying to claim that the bad behavior is what brings happiness. I believe I used the words "down the road", as in when the bad behaviors are behind them. Yes, I understand the %'s and the chances are bad. But now that it is done, it happened, I would rather hope that it turns out good for everyone, instead of just saying they are doomed. I would rather hope that they all beat the odds, the adults and the kids. It does happen, yes the chances might be small, but I would rather be optimistic that its one of those times.

Help, maybe some kids don't get over a parents divoce, but then again, some do. Some are better for it, happier from it, and blessed by it. It was hard getting through it at the time, but it was well worth it in the end.

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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
If the kids do come out okay as well, and ALL (not just the two adults that cheated and left), ALL 4 of the adults involved end up in happier relationships with more fulfilling lives, that is the if I am stating.


Yeah, and Santa's really gonna visit EVERY kid in the world in a couple of days - and I got some beach front property to sell you.

Do you realize how absolutely unlikely it is that this dream scenario you describe will pan out?

I, too, am the child of divorce due to adultery. Knowing my parents, they should never have been married. I acknowledge that. I'm pretty well off now - 'happy' as you say.

Doesn't change the fact that I feel robbed, that I resent my mother's selfishness and thus limit her time in my life. Doesn't mean that I didn't have some SERIOUS demons to work through when I first got married. Demons that reared their vicious heads when DD was born, threatening to damage our precious relationship. If I didn't have this place and an amazing DH - things wouldn't be good right now. All because my mom wanted to be 'happy'.

No - the ends do not justify the means, not when you can't guarantee the outcome. Not when you can destroy lives.

Did you even read the research I posted?

You're ok with taking the risk of those side effects in the pursuit of 'happiness'? REALLY?

It is one thing to flee abuse, because abuse leaves WORSE scars if endured - but simple discontent with life - THAT is worth the scars the children will be left with?

Last edited by Vibrissa; 12/22/10 12:41 PM.

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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
Again, ML, I am not saying that the affair/cheating is what will make them or anyone else in the situation happy. I am not trying to claim that the bad behavior is what brings happiness. I believe I used the words "down the road", as in when the bad behaviors are behind them. Yes, I understand the %'s and the chances are bad. But now that it is done, it happened, I would rather hope that it turns out good for everyone, instead of just saying they are doomed. I would rather hope that they all beat the odds, the adults and the kids. It does happen, yes the chances might be small, but I would rather be optimistic that its one of those times.

Help, maybe some kids don't get over a parents divoce, but then again, some do. Some are better for it, happier from it, and blessed by it. It was hard getting through it at the time, but it was well worth it in the end.


But you are describing a fantasy, I am talking about reality. Wishful thinking does not equate into reality. Did you read what Dr Harley wrote about these marriages? These affair marriages are "hell; much worse than the original marriages."

Most kids are damaged for life over divorce. And what is most damaging is the moral confusion that comes frm
having promiscuous, immoral parents. Teaching kids that lying and cheating will bring them "happiness" is a lie that will bring them great personal tragedy in their lives.

I share your wish that the kids come out of this unscathed, but the way to do that is to restore their family and begin modeling decency and integrity, rather than a life of depravity and promiscuousness.

If the adulterers don't wake up and turn from their depravity, the best one can hope for is that these kids have at least one responsible parent who will teach them right from wrong. Otherwise, I fear these kids will grow up morally confused and follow in their infidel parent's immoral footsteps. An immoral lifestyle is a life of hell.


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Originally Posted by TomOlympus
Originally Posted by StrongerThanB4
Originally Posted by TomOlympus
What if down the road all 4 adults in the situation end up being happier than they were during the two initial marriages. If they all end up better off, isn't it for the better.
I mean, yes, they went about it the wrong way. And there is no guarantee that all will be happier, but if they are. If there is a happy ending for all 4 of them...

that's awesome go on an infidelity board and just tell people who are trying to recovery from something like this that it's ok if you spouse cheats and quickly places you.... everyone deserves to be happy....AWESOME!

By no means am I coming on saying that the affair was okay. No, DID NOT say that.

in a round about way you did.... the way for all involved in this situation to be happy kids included is if they had tried to repair what was wrong in their marriages.... Gee the other article from yahoo even stated that the xh of the WW states the article painted a light that was not 100% true... hmm sooo i don't think he is happier that this all happened. Granted he maybe happier down the road... but i'll tell ya what.... for example there seems to be a little one in the picture being held. I have one about that age... and just last night she asked santa for her mom and dad to BOTH be with her on xmas morning... I am divorced and my xh still lives with skankho... do you see her getting that gift from santa??? and My daughter was 1 month old when my husband left... yep guess she is better off too.


Truth can stand on it's own two feet....A lie needs support....FRM
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