Hello Everyone,

I will do my best to keep straight to the points.

Wife has left going on 3 weeks, to move in with her Parents.
I am 42 years old and She is 38 years old.

Been in a Relationship with my wife for 12 years, and married for the last 3. We have a very vicious cycle that goes on in our home. Goes something like this, Fatastic-Good-Ok-Bad (she does something Drastic)and i have always reeled her back in, funny thing. Now that i have read MB, i realized we never had a plan, nor did we actually work on our marriage.

1- Wife recently left me for the second time in 2 years to live with her parents. She has 2 daughters from First marriage 18 and 15 who i adore. One left for college and the 2nd was at her parents 4-5 days a week for High School. This started in August and started a Huge Depression in her.

2-Within 3 days of her leaving, i moved to the part of town she wanted to be in, and its 7 blocks from her parents, and 1/2 mile from youngest daughters High School. I know the location is great, in fact she commented, its the perfect house in the perfect location.

3-I have thought long and hard over the last 2 weeks, and decided i want to do whatever i can to save my marriage. In the past, i always put the salesman approach on her and convinced her to give it another try. So far i have avoided that like the plague. She worries every time we talk or i see her that i am going to implement the same old strategy. What i want to do this time is use MB to win her back, make the necessary changes, and have a Healthy and Prosporous marriage.

4-Wifes Background- She is one of the purest souls on the planet. One who never wants to rock the boat, wants all of humanity to be happy, and is a HUGE GIVER.She says all she has ever wanted to do is make me happy. She is Very Very Sensitive, slightly raising my voice visibly upsets her. This was one of things that initially attracted her too me.

5-Me, i am the exact opposite, Entrepeneur, self starter, tough around the edges, and use to winning no matter what it is i am engaged in. I routinely take charge in all situations, and pretty much call the shots. I know, I know, great business qualitys not good husband qualities.

6-We were making a great living 5 years ago, and over the last 20 months, money has been extremely tight. In fact she commented today, when she came over for a visit,(Christmas Day Today) I hate money its a vile evil. After going through MB, i can see now, even 5 years ago, we could have had a much better Quality of Relationship.

Somehow we continue to be trapped in that 14 month vicious cycle i alluded too earlier.

There a lot more details, i am not sure what i should post or not post. So with that in mind...Heres what i am thinking.

I want to win my wife back. I want a Prosporous and Healthy marriage for both her and I. I want to become the Husband that she desires, and more importantly the Husband She deserves. At this point, she says she is finished, but still kissed me good bye when leaving. She leaves with her family 2morrow for the next 8 days, and i think this gives me enough time to institute a good plan. One that makes sense...

Now with that being said-
I have not done the following for her in the last 3 years...
Sleep next to her and snuggle even though she has asked me over 20 times... ( i was sleeping on top of the covers in the same bed )

I have not filled her love bank at all.
I have failed to show her affection outside of the bedroom.
I have routinely told her daily in person and on the phone I Love Her. (not with my actions though)
We only have one car-which i have now, she is driving parents.

When she has done something drastic, like leave, i win her back, go on good man routine behavior, then over the next 14 months our relationship erodes itself to Drastic again.

Please help...What are my first steps, what additional information do you need, and i am ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to be a Good Husband. I waited til i was 39 to get married for the first time, and still believe in the sacred vows of Marriage.

Thanks in advance for any and all responses, i know your time is valuable, and i truly appreciate it.

FYI-I am the only one on this path, going it alone for now, I am committed to following lessons, instructions and the entire recipe for the next 12 months, no ifs and or buts.

Warmest Regards,
*edit*

I Forgot, i also wanted to add....

There is absolutely no infidelity going on by either of us. She claims she is emotionally drained, and does not have the energy to go another round. Her bank is empty, and close to be closed.

Thanks
*edit*

Hi RR, sorry you're here, but you've come to the right place to build a great marriage.

A couple of things I want to point out:
You've been married 3 years and your wife runs home to her mommy and daddy when she doesn't like...what? Why does she go 'home'? (Understanding that her home is really with you.)

And then YOU move TO her. Why didn't you plan this together?

She is NOT a 'huge giver' or she wouldn't keep running home to mommy and daddy. She is a TAKER. She is also manipulative for doing this - don't confuse being nice and quiet with being a Giver.

There are people who have very sensitive hearing, to the point where it it painful to hear loud noises. A car horn, a loud radio - that's too loud for them. Is this true of your wife, or is it only your loud voice that causes her anguish?

Why haven't you slept with her under the covers since you married? Have you consummated your marriage?

Why do you think you haven't filled her Love Bank?

What HAVE you been doing?

maritalbliss,
thank you for the welcome, now to answer your questions so hopefully i can get some direction.

She goes home because that was her only option. No car, no cashflow, and no where else to go. She told me she felt like she had zero options. We have barely gotten by financially over the last 20 months.

She left as best as i understand, she was ready to give up on life, felt she had no independance, and felt i didnt care for her, nor did i want to be in a marriage. (after reading so much on MB today, i can see exactly how she would feel that way)

We tried to plan a move in August but could not find a home in the area. I just happend to get very lucky, as houses in this area come up about once over 3 months. There are very few rentals here. I didnt find one then, and neither of us made an effort since then to find one.

My voice is very loud, overbearing, and to many sounds almost dictator like. (hope that makes sense)She is senstive enough, if i say something harsh, lound, or worded strongly, she starts to cry, then interalizes everything, and i cannot get her to talk about how she feels.

Yes we consumated our marriage, and i love being intimate with her. Being together 12 years, in the beginning years, she was so insecure, she could not have lights on, sex only at night, and it had a prescription to it. Over the years, she has warmed up to showering together, love in the daylight, or lights on.

My excuse for not sleeping under the covers, she was always coming to bed in sweat pants and shirts. I want to snuggle up to a wife not a Scarecrow. So i guess i was punishing her by not sleeping and snuggling next to her. I have requested many times for her to change this to no avail. She just kept asking for massages ( i didnt give them and sleep under covers )

I havent filled her love bank in so many ways. I choose to work long hours, though its at home with her. Have refused to give her much physical interaction outside of the bedroom. All the trips we take are my ideas. In fact, she has not gone and bought new bras and panties for 4 years, due to our tight funds. In my mind, i heard her mention a couple of times, but never took the time to suggest we go do that. I mean, when i read the love bank list, i am like HOLY CRAP i am doing none of that.

I have been doing, Making excuses for why money is always tight. She mentioned today, she is tired of in the future, or i am doing this for us, or i am working so hard for you, or me complaining about my stress level.

The 3 things she has routinely brought up...

1) During a bad day, she kept asking me what was wrong, i wasnt talking and told her to leave me alone. After she made 14 requests of what is wrong, i said, and i am so embarrassed to say this ( Shut the F**K up, and leave me alone, i dont want to talk about it ) she told me today, in 38 years no one has ever said that to her.

2) During another conversation, i was pissed at her for not making a plan when we were going to meet an Out of state friend of hers for an afternoon of flyfishing. Money was tight, we could drive 100 miles round trip. They didnt make a plan, we drove 200 miles.

I was complaing the whole way, about how stupid it was to not have a plan. In her eyes, all i did was belittle her, and tell her how stupid i thought she was.

3) During a business conversation, i told her, didnt ask, Man up and quit being such a baby, show some dam backbone, dont get pushed around. ( she loves to go off over this one )

Lately, because of the stress, when she would say something like have a great day/Have fun, i would respond, i am not going to have fun, i am going to work, there is nothing fun about going to work, in fact it sucks.

As far as sensitivity, Wshuts down, as she feels now, her opinions dont matter, her thoughts and feelings dont matter, and i dont give a Hoot about her. Thats why she left, and then told me 3 days ago, i am taking my ring off, i dont want this to work out.

I have put a ton of pressure on her to go to MC to the point, the last 3 times we have seen each other, she has finally shown some emotion by getting mad, and flat refused to go. Her excuse for not going to MC what if it works and i am back in this house again in 3 weeks, and we are in the same boat 1 year from now. If that happend i could not forgive myself. So i want out now...

Hope this gives you some more insight,
thanks for the Input.
Regards,
*edit*

I know you insist on no infidelity, but the cry for "independence," and the talk of you "not caring" is pointedly common because of infidelity. In other words, she has found someone who does "care for her" and with you she doesn't have the "independence" to be with this person as she sees fit.

Exactly what kind of intelligence gathering have you done to make certain there is no infidelity occurring? Checked phone messages, records? Anything, or just pure hope and faith?



If you are aware of this, you know what you are engaging in could be construed as "Angry Outbursts" or AO. However, she is also not being emotionally honest with you. This could be due to your AO behavior, and/or possible "Disrespectful Judgments" or DJ behavior when she has been emotionally honest with you. If you wish to encourage emtional honesty from her, you need to learn to listen. Not respond, not offer your thoughts, not offer advice or perspective to her, just listen.





AO, and a lack of emotional honesty. This is something to work on for sure - and doing so without resulting in AO or DJ behavior.


Read up on "The Policy of Joint Agreement," or POJA.


AO/DJ


Brush up on your love busters, read up on the "Policy of Radical Honesty" (PORH), and work on implementing POJA.


Marriage is a two way street, and part of YOUR behavior towards her has been shaped by HER behavior towards you. It does not make it justifiable or excusable, but it's what happens.

Each of your failures to meet the others needs led you into that cycle; intimacy, conflict, withdrawal.

Read up on "The Giver and The Taker," and "The Three States of Marriage."

It's great that you take some responsibility for your failings, but unless both sides of the marriage are improved, the cycle will continue.

You've slept on top of the covers for three years?

You sound like a power person -- you have to make your point even if it kills your wife's love for you.

My stbx behaved this way. There always had to be some punishment inflicted on me when he made a point, or he wasn't satisfied.

Your wife sounds like a good person who's been beaten down by your overbearing behaviour. It's very exhausting for a sensitive person to live this way year after year.

What your wife wants most is your kindness. If my H had just given me more of that, I wouldn't be here.

Me 58
H - 61
Separated since 03/10. No affair, just years of neglect.

RRN,
Sorry you are here. If you haven't read the articles below, I think they are a good resource in helping you with your plan. Your wife has not 100% emotionally detached from you yet and that is a good thing. I believe your marital relationship has very poor communication. Your W runs to "mommy" and you go around issues instead of having meaningful discussions. You are smarter now because you recognize the patterns of behaviors. Your wife is going to need baby steps from you before she can feel any confidence the past behaviors will not be repeated in the future. Start slowly with small changes and be consistent. The changes start with you changing yourself.



WHy WOmen leave men
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts
and Restore Love to Your Marriage


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html


Rules that Guide Good
Habit Formation in Marriage

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_habit.html

Sky,
thank you very much, i could not agree more. She has mentioned, all she ever wanted was my love, kindness and touch. After being on these boards for 1 day and devouring the information, i cant believe what a nice guy i was(Horrible Guy) using power as a way to control and prove points. Thank you for taking the time to leave some input i appreciate it. At this point, what if anything, could be done to save that type of situation?

Thanks *edit*

GG,
you have hit the nail on the head,, the patterns are plain as day and black and white. I am curious, i have the 10 principles, had already read the 3 documents you suggested. Where do i go from here outside of working on myself personally. I can easily see all the wholes that were transpiring in my marriage. How do i go about winning her back, she left last night with "Mommy" to the cabin in the moutains til next monday. So she is gone for 8 days. Heres what i am doing now...Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...

1- I work from home, so i am making a business plan/schedule for the next 90 days.
2- Planning our a good solid daily exercise schedule.
3- Giving myself 2 1/2 hours a day to read MB, work on plans, work on myself to do my very best to save my marriage.
4- Creating a Schedule for Recreation, so i dont get lost in doing nothing.
5- Taking care of myself...Mentally, Physically and Spiritually

Where i am lacking, is how to creat the plan for my Marriage, and what should i being right now, or over the next few weeks in an attempt to save my marriage. How do i deal with her? Do i call, not call? Do i text, not text? Do i invite her over or out for things or not? i have no idea what to do, there seems to be very mixed ideas on this subject. I know i am only going to get one shot, and want to do the very best i can.

Thanks *edit*

Does your wife want to be around you or doesn't want to see right now at all?

The article on restoring love lists five steps. If your wife is upto seeing you, consider dating her. If you can start to see her on a regular basis where you can start proving the changes. When she's comfortable, ask her if she will take the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Once you know her top 3 needs work on meeting those needs, avoid the LB and the AO. Have you considered doing a phone consult with Harley? From others who had the phone consult say he helps with customizing your plan.

Gg

GG,
its hit and miss. She came over yesterday for christmas at my request, she was here 2 1/2 hours. We hung out the first hour, and i was giving her a massage, nothing sexual at all, then she snapped. Got mad, why havent you done that over the last 5 years when i have asked you. ( I was dumbfounded and had no answer ) this led to a conversation about us, and how inportant i thought it was to save our marraige, and why she needed to consent to counseling with me. (This was PRE MB)didnt find the boards til an hour after she left. Shes gone for the next 8 days, when she comes back, i have no idea what to expect.

Right now she is Texting me here and there, but small stuff, and most of the time its when i initiate it after a few days.

One note, i had kissed her a couple of times during our meeting yesterday before she snapped, she was 1/2 way receptive, but not really. Then when she was leaving at the car, she approached me for a Hug and Kissed me good bye, not a passionate one, more like an obligated one. ( Not sure what to read into that )

Also worth noting, she took off her ring on this past wednesday... something she has never ever done, in the last 4 years.

Thanks again, for all your input.
*edit*

For your own safety, please remain anonymous while posting on the forums.
Thank you.

RR,
I added to my previous post.

There's two things that I see as red flags - the removal of her wedding ring and her urgency to end M. I know this is going to be hard to hear - but you should snoop to ensure there is no other man. You need to know what you're dealing with.

I can understand her getting upset - she's afraid of falling into same trap or behaviors of the past - she's going to be headstrong on preventing this from happening. Don't let her know your snooping and continue to work on your Plan.

Gg

Here's another good article on how to negotiate. This is something you may want to consider approaching your wife about giving you time. Some men here asked for a timeline from the wife (when your wife is ready for this - timing is important with your wife).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_guide.html

The above making the assumption no affair is involved.

Gg

GG,
thank you for all your input, i know its time consuming, however i really apprecite it. Ok, red your edited post, heres some of my thoughts.

We both work from home, and have one car, if , and this would be huge, an affair was going on? I have no idea how she could even pull it off, from a perspective of just being around each other, it would be impossible. I believe i forced the issue last wednesday when i was Hammering Her and Applying pressure to her to go to MC. I am pretty sharp guy, and the possibility of an affair,Less than 2%. So i am ruling that one out. I think by trying to Force her to do something (counseling)she saw that as giving up what little power she had at that point. Right now, she is becoming empowered, i have actually seen her angry (not Yelling) but angry for the first time in a couple of years. Her emotion on the issues is coming to the surface. She is not asking me to get a Divorce right now, she is just saying it is over. (My spider senses say, there is still an opportunity here, though she is very beat down)or i might just be pulling at straws like the Kiss yesterday from her.

Exactly, she is scared, i mean really scared of falling into the same trap of behaviors. She has made that clear, her reason for not going to counseling was logical. If i go, i know i am going to be in the same house with you inside of 3 weeks, nothing will have changed, and a year from now i am going to hate myself, as i wasted another year. (her QUOTE verbatim)

I asked her yesterday if she would be open to dating once a week, she didnt say yes or no, but typically, her personality, she does not want to ever say anything that would upset me, hurt my feelings, or be unkind. <---- Leaving did all of these.


I am not in a financial position at this point to schedule of PHone Consultation, in a few weeks i can make it happen. For now, how do i operate with her?

Contact her, ask her out, dont contact her, Text her only, write her a card or note, there seems to be a ton of mixed information on the topic...Some are saying, No Contact/Play Coy, while others say the opposite, so i have no idea how too operate with her, i do not want to blow this over making a mistake. I have made so many in my Marriage up to this point, i want to start to repair, not continually damage.
Thanks again GG

RR

RR,
The one thing I appreciated about my FWH was his persistance in not letting me push him away. Our situation was different because affair was involved. You need to be a presence in your Wife's life - Harley also writes the importance of not being separated. She is not willing to come back to the house - you need to (without LB) try to get her to be with you weekly. The further she is away the easier it will be for her to reach 100% emotionally disconnect from you. Txtg is somewhat impersonal - but if it is a means of you being present in her life than go for it. Let her know you respect how she feels and what she is going through but let her also know that you love her and that you are there for her no matter what. Every opportunity you get to show her you can be better is an oppty you don't want to lose. Harley says anger is good because it opens the door to resolving issues. Her being angry and showing it is a good thing.

Gg

RR:

As someone who's experienced a siutation similar to your wife's, I would have liked this to happen:

1) My husband to express sorrow for his lack of compassion.

2) An acknowledgement that his behaviour caused deep harm to me and our marriage.

3) That I be given time to heal.

4) That he commit to MB principles.


These four steps alone would have given me hope and a reason to persevere.

If you take MB principles to heart and really do the work, I think you can save things.

Best of luck!

GG excellent. I am now getting a clearer picture, most of the outside info outside of MB says no Contact, she has to miss you. If i understand you correctly, what i need to do, is take advantage of every ounce of contact i can to show her improvement and Love. (correct)The last thing i want her to be able to do is emotionally Disconnect, which is what i am afraid will happen, since she is left today for 8 days, and will have no contact whatsoever. I will say, i was surprised, and felt good about her being angry, it showed emotion, that she hasnt shown in a long time.

GG- I know i love my wife, i know i have been a Horrible Husband at Best, I want nothing more than to not only save my Marriage, but become the best husband possible for Her, for Me, for out Marriage. I am completely open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks
RR

Syeblue,
It appears, you are both very similar..Thanks for sharing with me those 4 concepts. Question, she knows i am going to counseling, and refuses to partake in it at all. Her reasoning, if she goes, she knows we end up back in the same house in a few weeks, and she said if that happens, and i am in the same boat next year, i wont forgive myself.

So, How do i combat this? How do i explain to her MB, without it blowing up in my face? And how do i get her to give me some time to Show her, not tell her, or do i do both? She is so sensitive, and i think she would avoid hurting my feelings at most costs. When she took off her ring on wednesday, she told me she would put it on when around me so she didnt hurt my feelings. ( I told her i wanted her to be real, and if that was how she felt at this time, i would rather she didnt wear it around me, than wear it) <-----Might have been a Huge Mistake (not Sure)

What ideas or suggestions do you have for breaching the Sensitivity, and buying me some time, to work forward with the MB principals. I can already see how powerful they are, and where all the holes in our Marriage were.

Thanks again for your Input Sky

RR

Good points from Sky. RR, I would stay away from MC talk right now since you know she is against it. You are going to have to earn her trust and confidence. Plan A is not necessarily for M with affairs.


Your wife needs a friend right now and you want to make sure the friend is you. Go slow, don't overwhelm her. You are exiced because you've learned about MB but your wife is not at the same place you are.

Have you read about spouse withdrawal from the article on 3 state of mind of marriage? (That's where Harley writes that anger is good when in conflict/withdrawl).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html


G