Hello Everyone,

I will do my best to keep straight to the points.

Wife has left going on 3 weeks, to move in with her Parents.
I am 42 years old and She is 38 years old.

Been in a Relationship with my wife for 12 years, and married for the last 3. We have a very vicious cycle that goes on in our home. Goes something like this, Fatastic-Good-Ok-Bad (she does something Drastic)and i have always reeled her back in, funny thing. Now that i have read MB, i realized we never had a plan, nor did we actually work on our marriage.

1- Wife recently left me for the second time in 2 years to live with her parents. She has 2 daughters from First marriage 18 and 15 who i adore. One left for college and the 2nd was at her parents 4-5 days a week for High School. This started in August and started a Huge Depression in her.

2-Within 3 days of her leaving, i moved to the part of town she wanted to be in, and its 7 blocks from her parents, and 1/2 mile from youngest daughters High School. I know the location is great, in fact she commented, its the perfect house in the perfect location.

3-I have thought long and hard over the last 2 weeks, and decided i want to do whatever i can to save my marriage. In the past, i always put the salesman approach on her and convinced her to give it another try. So far i have avoided that like the plague. She worries every time we talk or i see her that i am going to implement the same old strategy. What i want to do this time is use MB to win her back, make the necessary changes, and have a Healthy and Prosporous marriage.

4-Wifes Background- She is one of the purest souls on the planet. One who never wants to rock the boat, wants all of humanity to be happy, and is a HUGE GIVER.She says all she has ever wanted to do is make me happy. She is Very Very Sensitive, slightly raising my voice visibly upsets her. This was one of things that initially attracted her too me.

5-Me, i am the exact opposite, Entrepeneur, self starter, tough around the edges, and use to winning no matter what it is i am engaged in. I routinely take charge in all situations, and pretty much call the shots. I know, I know, great business qualitys not good husband qualities.

6-We were making a great living 5 years ago, and over the last 20 months, money has been extremely tight. In fact she commented today, when she came over for a visit,(Christmas Day Today) I hate money its a vile evil. After going through MB, i can see now, even 5 years ago, we could have had a much better Quality of Relationship.

Somehow we continue to be trapped in that 14 month vicious cycle i alluded too earlier.

There a lot more details, i am not sure what i should post or not post. So with that in mind...Heres what i am thinking.

I want to win my wife back. I want a Prosporous and Healthy marriage for both her and I. I want to become the Husband that she desires, and more importantly the Husband She deserves. At this point, she says she is finished, but still kissed me good bye when leaving. She leaves with her family 2morrow for the next 8 days, and i think this gives me enough time to institute a good plan. One that makes sense...

Now with that being said-
I have not done the following for her in the last 3 years...
Sleep next to her and snuggle even though she has asked me over 20 times... ( i was sleeping on top of the covers in the same bed )

I have not filled her love bank at all.
I have failed to show her affection outside of the bedroom.
I have routinely told her daily in person and on the phone I Love Her. (not with my actions though)
We only have one car-which i have now, she is driving parents.

When she has done something drastic, like leave, i win her back, go on good man routine behavior, then over the next 14 months our relationship erodes itself to Drastic again.

Please help...What are my first steps, what additional information do you need, and i am ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to be a Good Husband. I waited til i was 39 to get married for the first time, and still believe in the sacred vows of Marriage.

Thanks in advance for any and all responses, i know your time is valuable, and i truly appreciate it.

FYI-I am the only one on this path, going it alone for now, I am committed to following lessons, instructions and the entire recipe for the next 12 months, no ifs and or buts.

Warmest Regards,
*edit*

I Forgot, i also wanted to add....

There is absolutely no infidelity going on by either of us. She claims she is emotionally drained, and does not have the energy to go another round. Her bank is empty, and close to be closed.

Thanks
*edit*

Hi RR, sorry you're here, but you've come to the right place to build a great marriage.

A couple of things I want to point out:
You've been married 3 years and your wife runs home to her mommy and daddy when she doesn't like...what? Why does she go 'home'? (Understanding that her home is really with you.)

And then YOU move TO her. Why didn't you plan this together?

She is NOT a 'huge giver' or she wouldn't keep running home to mommy and daddy. She is a TAKER. She is also manipulative for doing this - don't confuse being nice and quiet with being a Giver.

There are people who have very sensitive hearing, to the point where it it painful to hear loud noises. A car horn, a loud radio - that's too loud for them. Is this true of your wife, or is it only your loud voice that causes her anguish?

Why haven't you slept with her under the covers since you married? Have you consummated your marriage?

Why do you think you haven't filled her Love Bank?

What HAVE you been doing?

maritalbliss,
thank you for the welcome, now to answer your questions so hopefully i can get some direction.

She goes home because that was her only option. No car, no cashflow, and no where else to go. She told me she felt like she had zero options. We have barely gotten by financially over the last 20 months.

She left as best as i understand, she was ready to give up on life, felt she had no independance, and felt i didnt care for her, nor did i want to be in a marriage. (after reading so much on MB today, i can see exactly how she would feel that way)

We tried to plan a move in August but could not find a home in the area. I just happend to get very lucky, as houses in this area come up about once over 3 months. There are very few rentals here. I didnt find one then, and neither of us made an effort since then to find one.

My voice is very loud, overbearing, and to many sounds almost dictator like. (hope that makes sense)She is senstive enough, if i say something harsh, lound, or worded strongly, she starts to cry, then interalizes everything, and i cannot get her to talk about how she feels.

Yes we consumated our marriage, and i love being intimate with her. Being together 12 years, in the beginning years, she was so insecure, she could not have lights on, sex only at night, and it had a prescription to it. Over the years, she has warmed up to showering together, love in the daylight, or lights on.

My excuse for not sleeping under the covers, she was always coming to bed in sweat pants and shirts. I want to snuggle up to a wife not a Scarecrow. So i guess i was punishing her by not sleeping and snuggling next to her. I have requested many times for her to change this to no avail. She just kept asking for massages ( i didnt give them and sleep under covers )

I havent filled her love bank in so many ways. I choose to work long hours, though its at home with her. Have refused to give her much physical interaction outside of the bedroom. All the trips we take are my ideas. In fact, she has not gone and bought new bras and panties for 4 years, due to our tight funds. In my mind, i heard her mention a couple of times, but never took the time to suggest we go do that. I mean, when i read the love bank list, i am like HOLY CRAP i am doing none of that.

I have been doing, Making excuses for why money is always tight. She mentioned today, she is tired of in the future, or i am doing this for us, or i am working so hard for you, or me complaining about my stress level.

The 3 things she has routinely brought up...

1) During a bad day, she kept asking me what was wrong, i wasnt talking and told her to leave me alone. After she made 14 requests of what is wrong, i said, and i am so embarrassed to say this ( Shut the F**K up, and leave me alone, i dont want to talk about it ) she told me today, in 38 years no one has ever said that to her.

2) During another conversation, i was pissed at her for not making a plan when we were going to meet an Out of state friend of hers for an afternoon of flyfishing. Money was tight, we could drive 100 miles round trip. They didnt make a plan, we drove 200 miles.

I was complaing the whole way, about how stupid it was to not have a plan. In her eyes, all i did was belittle her, and tell her how stupid i thought she was.

3) During a business conversation, i told her, didnt ask, Man up and quit being such a baby, show some dam backbone, dont get pushed around. ( she loves to go off over this one )

Lately, because of the stress, when she would say something like have a great day/Have fun, i would respond, i am not going to have fun, i am going to work, there is nothing fun about going to work, in fact it sucks.

As far as sensitivity, Wshuts down, as she feels now, her opinions dont matter, her thoughts and feelings dont matter, and i dont give a Hoot about her. Thats why she left, and then told me 3 days ago, i am taking my ring off, i dont want this to work out.

I have put a ton of pressure on her to go to MC to the point, the last 3 times we have seen each other, she has finally shown some emotion by getting mad, and flat refused to go. Her excuse for not going to MC what if it works and i am back in this house again in 3 weeks, and we are in the same boat 1 year from now. If that happend i could not forgive myself. So i want out now...

Hope this gives you some more insight,
thanks for the Input.
Regards,
*edit*

I know you insist on no infidelity, but the cry for "independence," and the talk of you "not caring" is pointedly common because of infidelity. In other words, she has found someone who does "care for her" and with you she doesn't have the "independence" to be with this person as she sees fit.

Exactly what kind of intelligence gathering have you done to make certain there is no infidelity occurring? Checked phone messages, records? Anything, or just pure hope and faith?



If you are aware of this, you know what you are engaging in could be construed as "Angry Outbursts" or AO. However, she is also not being emotionally honest with you. This could be due to your AO behavior, and/or possible "Disrespectful Judgments" or DJ behavior when she has been emotionally honest with you. If you wish to encourage emtional honesty from her, you need to learn to listen. Not respond, not offer your thoughts, not offer advice or perspective to her, just listen.





AO, and a lack of emotional honesty. This is something to work on for sure - and doing so without resulting in AO or DJ behavior.


Read up on "The Policy of Joint Agreement," or POJA.


AO/DJ


Brush up on your love busters, read up on the "Policy of Radical Honesty" (PORH), and work on implementing POJA.


Marriage is a two way street, and part of YOUR behavior towards her has been shaped by HER behavior towards you. It does not make it justifiable or excusable, but it's what happens.

Each of your failures to meet the others needs led you into that cycle; intimacy, conflict, withdrawal.

Read up on "The Giver and The Taker," and "The Three States of Marriage."

It's great that you take some responsibility for your failings, but unless both sides of the marriage are improved, the cycle will continue.

You've slept on top of the covers for three years?

You sound like a power person -- you have to make your point even if it kills your wife's love for you.

My stbx behaved this way. There always had to be some punishment inflicted on me when he made a point, or he wasn't satisfied.

Your wife sounds like a good person who's been beaten down by your overbearing behaviour. It's very exhausting for a sensitive person to live this way year after year.

What your wife wants most is your kindness. If my H had just given me more of that, I wouldn't be here.

Me 58
H - 61
Separated since 03/10. No affair, just years of neglect.

RRN,
Sorry you are here. If you haven't read the articles below, I think they are a good resource in helping you with your plan. Your wife has not 100% emotionally detached from you yet and that is a good thing. I believe your marital relationship has very poor communication. Your W runs to "mommy" and you go around issues instead of having meaningful discussions. You are smarter now because you recognize the patterns of behaviors. Your wife is going to need baby steps from you before she can feel any confidence the past behaviors will not be repeated in the future. Start slowly with small changes and be consistent. The changes start with you changing yourself.



WHy WOmen leave men
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts
and Restore Love to Your Marriage


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html


Rules that Guide Good
Habit Formation in Marriage

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_habit.html

Sky,
thank you very much, i could not agree more. She has mentioned, all she ever wanted was my love, kindness and touch. After being on these boards for 1 day and devouring the information, i cant believe what a nice guy i was(Horrible Guy) using power as a way to control and prove points. Thank you for taking the time to leave some input i appreciate it. At this point, what if anything, could be done to save that type of situation?

Thanks *edit*

GG,
you have hit the nail on the head,, the patterns are plain as day and black and white. I am curious, i have the 10 principles, had already read the 3 documents you suggested. Where do i go from here outside of working on myself personally. I can easily see all the wholes that were transpiring in my marriage. How do i go about winning her back, she left last night with "Mommy" to the cabin in the moutains til next monday. So she is gone for 8 days. Heres what i am doing now...Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...

1- I work from home, so i am making a business plan/schedule for the next 90 days.
2- Planning our a good solid daily exercise schedule.
3- Giving myself 2 1/2 hours a day to read MB, work on plans, work on myself to do my very best to save my marriage.
4- Creating a Schedule for Recreation, so i dont get lost in doing nothing.
5- Taking care of myself...Mentally, Physically and Spiritually

Where i am lacking, is how to creat the plan for my Marriage, and what should i being right now, or over the next few weeks in an attempt to save my marriage. How do i deal with her? Do i call, not call? Do i text, not text? Do i invite her over or out for things or not? i have no idea what to do, there seems to be very mixed ideas on this subject. I know i am only going to get one shot, and want to do the very best i can.

Thanks *edit*

Does your wife want to be around you or doesn't want to see right now at all?

The article on restoring love lists five steps. If your wife is upto seeing you, consider dating her. If you can start to see her on a regular basis where you can start proving the changes. When she's comfortable, ask her if she will take the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Once you know her top 3 needs work on meeting those needs, avoid the LB and the AO. Have you considered doing a phone consult with Harley? From others who had the phone consult say he helps with customizing your plan.

Gg

GG,
its hit and miss. She came over yesterday for christmas at my request, she was here 2 1/2 hours. We hung out the first hour, and i was giving her a massage, nothing sexual at all, then she snapped. Got mad, why havent you done that over the last 5 years when i have asked you. ( I was dumbfounded and had no answer ) this led to a conversation about us, and how inportant i thought it was to save our marraige, and why she needed to consent to counseling with me. (This was PRE MB)didnt find the boards til an hour after she left. Shes gone for the next 8 days, when she comes back, i have no idea what to expect.

Right now she is Texting me here and there, but small stuff, and most of the time its when i initiate it after a few days.

One note, i had kissed her a couple of times during our meeting yesterday before she snapped, she was 1/2 way receptive, but not really. Then when she was leaving at the car, she approached me for a Hug and Kissed me good bye, not a passionate one, more like an obligated one. ( Not sure what to read into that )

Also worth noting, she took off her ring on this past wednesday... something she has never ever done, in the last 4 years.

Thanks again, for all your input.
*edit*

For your own safety, please remain anonymous while posting on the forums.
Thank you.

RR,
I added to my previous post.

There's two things that I see as red flags - the removal of her wedding ring and her urgency to end M. I know this is going to be hard to hear - but you should snoop to ensure there is no other man. You need to know what you're dealing with.

I can understand her getting upset - she's afraid of falling into same trap or behaviors of the past - she's going to be headstrong on preventing this from happening. Don't let her know your snooping and continue to work on your Plan.

Gg

Here's another good article on how to negotiate. This is something you may want to consider approaching your wife about giving you time. Some men here asked for a timeline from the wife (when your wife is ready for this - timing is important with your wife).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_guide.html

The above making the assumption no affair is involved.

Gg

GG,
thank you for all your input, i know its time consuming, however i really apprecite it. Ok, red your edited post, heres some of my thoughts.

We both work from home, and have one car, if , and this would be huge, an affair was going on? I have no idea how she could even pull it off, from a perspective of just being around each other, it would be impossible. I believe i forced the issue last wednesday when i was Hammering Her and Applying pressure to her to go to MC. I am pretty sharp guy, and the possibility of an affair,Less than 2%. So i am ruling that one out. I think by trying to Force her to do something (counseling)she saw that as giving up what little power she had at that point. Right now, she is becoming empowered, i have actually seen her angry (not Yelling) but angry for the first time in a couple of years. Her emotion on the issues is coming to the surface. She is not asking me to get a Divorce right now, she is just saying it is over. (My spider senses say, there is still an opportunity here, though she is very beat down)or i might just be pulling at straws like the Kiss yesterday from her.

Exactly, she is scared, i mean really scared of falling into the same trap of behaviors. She has made that clear, her reason for not going to counseling was logical. If i go, i know i am going to be in the same house with you inside of 3 weeks, nothing will have changed, and a year from now i am going to hate myself, as i wasted another year. (her QUOTE verbatim)

I asked her yesterday if she would be open to dating once a week, she didnt say yes or no, but typically, her personality, she does not want to ever say anything that would upset me, hurt my feelings, or be unkind. <---- Leaving did all of these.


I am not in a financial position at this point to schedule of PHone Consultation, in a few weeks i can make it happen. For now, how do i operate with her?

Contact her, ask her out, dont contact her, Text her only, write her a card or note, there seems to be a ton of mixed information on the topic...Some are saying, No Contact/Play Coy, while others say the opposite, so i have no idea how too operate with her, i do not want to blow this over making a mistake. I have made so many in my Marriage up to this point, i want to start to repair, not continually damage.
Thanks again GG

RR

RR,
The one thing I appreciated about my FWH was his persistance in not letting me push him away. Our situation was different because affair was involved. You need to be a presence in your Wife's life - Harley also writes the importance of not being separated. She is not willing to come back to the house - you need to (without LB) try to get her to be with you weekly. The further she is away the easier it will be for her to reach 100% emotionally disconnect from you. Txtg is somewhat impersonal - but if it is a means of you being present in her life than go for it. Let her know you respect how she feels and what she is going through but let her also know that you love her and that you are there for her no matter what. Every opportunity you get to show her you can be better is an oppty you don't want to lose. Harley says anger is good because it opens the door to resolving issues. Her being angry and showing it is a good thing.

Gg

RR:

As someone who's experienced a siutation similar to your wife's, I would have liked this to happen:

1) My husband to express sorrow for his lack of compassion.

2) An acknowledgement that his behaviour caused deep harm to me and our marriage.

3) That I be given time to heal.

4) That he commit to MB principles.


These four steps alone would have given me hope and a reason to persevere.

If you take MB principles to heart and really do the work, I think you can save things.

Best of luck!

GG excellent. I am now getting a clearer picture, most of the outside info outside of MB says no Contact, she has to miss you. If i understand you correctly, what i need to do, is take advantage of every ounce of contact i can to show her improvement and Love. (correct)The last thing i want her to be able to do is emotionally Disconnect, which is what i am afraid will happen, since she is left today for 8 days, and will have no contact whatsoever. I will say, i was surprised, and felt good about her being angry, it showed emotion, that she hasnt shown in a long time.

GG- I know i love my wife, i know i have been a Horrible Husband at Best, I want nothing more than to not only save my Marriage, but become the best husband possible for Her, for Me, for out Marriage. I am completely open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks
RR

Syeblue,
It appears, you are both very similar..Thanks for sharing with me those 4 concepts. Question, she knows i am going to counseling, and refuses to partake in it at all. Her reasoning, if she goes, she knows we end up back in the same house in a few weeks, and she said if that happens, and i am in the same boat next year, i wont forgive myself.

So, How do i combat this? How do i explain to her MB, without it blowing up in my face? And how do i get her to give me some time to Show her, not tell her, or do i do both? She is so sensitive, and i think she would avoid hurting my feelings at most costs. When she took off her ring on wednesday, she told me she would put it on when around me so she didnt hurt my feelings. ( I told her i wanted her to be real, and if that was how she felt at this time, i would rather she didnt wear it around me, than wear it) <-----Might have been a Huge Mistake (not Sure)

What ideas or suggestions do you have for breaching the Sensitivity, and buying me some time, to work forward with the MB principals. I can already see how powerful they are, and where all the holes in our Marriage were.

Thanks again for your Input Sky

RR

Good points from Sky. RR, I would stay away from MC talk right now since you know she is against it. You are going to have to earn her trust and confidence. Plan A is not necessarily for M with affairs.


Your wife needs a friend right now and you want to make sure the friend is you. Go slow, don't overwhelm her. You are exiced because you've learned about MB but your wife is not at the same place you are.

Have you read about spouse withdrawal from the article on 3 state of mind of marriage? (That's where Harley writes that anger is good when in conflict/withdrawl).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html


G

I would ask you to reconsider this.

First of all, Dr Harley himself has stated numerously that whenever one spouse wants to move out or just doesn't want to work on the M anymore, you should always look for an affair.

This does not mean to ask the suspected WS if they are having an affair. Why not? Because waywards deny deny deny sometimes even when confronted with evidence. This is well documented.

Next, a LB$ is not "closed" to third parties. In fact, the romantic threshold is very low ~ one of the major MB principles is to constantly be protecting boundaries because Dr Harley emphasizes that affairs are so tempting and we are all wired to have them.

The only way to know if there is no affair is to snoop and then snoop some more. Check the cell phone records and email/FB accounts. If none of that pans out, GPS/VAR in the car or PI.

Sorry to be harsh, but it is ridiculous to rule an A out based on what your wife has told you.

click the following links to the right and print them out:
Dr. Harleys Basic Concepts
Love Busters
Emotional Needs Questionaire

Explain to her that you understand that you have been a horrible husband and you understand that you have invalidated her feelings and needs in the marriage. Let her know that you have found a program that has saved thousands of marriages that have resulted from neglect. Ask her to take a look at what you have printed out and ask her to fill out the questionaires when she has time.

Then let her know when she is done, you will read and listen without interrupting and without being judgemental and that all you want is to make sure you are being the best husband you can from here on out.

Hi Kilted,
I don't have a good feeling about him doing what you've suggested because his wife has already shot down the idea of pursuing advice to fix marriage. I'd rather he introduce MB when he has a better chance of the introduction being successful. She's in withdrawal from the M, has moved out and wants little contact with RR. Personally I think he's better off putting focus on him - for example - him saying to wife "this is what I learned about myself today from the MB principles." I bet she'd rather hear that than have him sell her on a marriage program which she already made clear she is against.


Gg

I have been accused of being overly-sensitive by men (usually boyfriend or husband) over the years. Usually that accusation occurred when I tried to express my hurt at an action the other person had taken. For example, when I was yelled at for some infraction or when I was belittled for some effort.

Many of the actions described by the OP are border-line abusive. Women are taught now that no one needs to endure abuse. But further, we are told by society that to be taken advantage of by abusive behavior is the fault of the female. So the person feels abused AND embarrassed as if it were their fault.

I think you can let your wife know that you have come to a realization of your faults, have found a program to address them, and will be working on it whether she comes back or not. Acknowledge and accept her right to doubts as to whether you can change.

Ok here is the Update...not sure where to go from here, or what to make of it.

Just spent 1 1/2 hours on the phone with my wife. Thank goodness for MB, i did exactly what i was told, i just listend as she shared her horror stories about me and us. Offered up little opionions, just practiced being a good listener. She brought up lots of things about us where i went wrong. Each instance she brought up, i validated and apologized for my horrible behavior. (It felt Good to get it off my chest and talk about it.)

At 1 hour, i shared with her i had found a Program MB , that would teach me how to be a great Husband, but more importantly how my behaviors destroyed our marriage, and eroded our love. I did not ask her to participate in any way, the timing is not right, remember she flat refuses to engage in MC.

Wife went so far to say, if the divorce papers were filed yesterday i am ok with that, in fact, i am ready to start my life today. Are you ready to let me go... I validated her feelings for my behavior, expressed how bad i felt for doing the things to her i had done, and told her i was going to work on myself over the next few months.

Wife is very sensitive and a giver, she said, if you found a woman 2morrow that you knew would make you happy, you know, i only want you to be happy, i would be ok with that, and would honestly be happy for you. ( She appears on the outside very disconnected at times...i think the confusion is causing this )

I expressed to her, that staying at her parents was the best thing for her right now, she needed time to heal, to find her personal Dignity <---she said she had lost it, and to really find herself. I told her i would make no more requests for MC or apply any pressure on her to do anything.

She made it very Clear she is not willing to put her life on hold for anything...not me, not us, not our marriage.

I then asked her if she would grant me one simple request or favor, i told her i was starting a program on monday called MB and at times, there would be questionaires and documents, and would she be willing to help me out by filling them out.

She said she would be happy to do it, if it would help me to help myself. She said, if that helps you become a better husband for the next woman in your life, one you can and should treat like a princess, i am happy to do that for you.
I told great thank you so much, and that there would proably be a few of them to fill out.

Now, heres my question, obviously in her mind, it is completely done with and over, she is ready to move on. Based on what i have read here on MB i have to do the work, and let my actions speak, no words. She did agree i could call on occassion, and when i suggested perhaps coffee, hockey game, or movie, down the road...she didnt say yes to that, and didnt say no.

So now, i am at this point and crossroads, what do i do? Which questionaire do i give her to fill out, or do i give her none of them? (I am totally lost as to which direction to go in) She Leaves out of town 2morrow with family til monday, so i have plenty of time for preparation. Question is, Now what do i do?

Am i chasing something that has no Possibilty of working out? I want to win her back, and show her, not tell her, how great it can be.

Hoping one of the Board Experts can steer me in the right direction. Up to this point, the boards have been priceless.

Thanks again MB Boards and all who are responding.

RR

This is fog-speak. She is not being a sensitive giver. Don't fall for this.

The best place for her is NOT at her parents' right now. Don't express this to her again. She does NOT need time to heal - she is not a victim. Her personal dignity? She OWNS her own dignity. She doesn't need to 'find' herself. She's RIGHT WHERE SHE IS.

This is your sensitive, giving wife? Think about that.

Marital Bliss,
thank you for pointing out direct information. I am looking at everything. now i need a plan...

Thanks
RR

Just saying...

I'm sorry that you find yourself having to be on MB, but good for you on seeking help on improving your marriage.
It seems to me, after reading all the replies that you're getting a better sense of what needs to be changed for the sake of your marriage and that you already had a sense of what you were doing wrong.

You are on the right path, I am sure of it. We must be strong and carry on even when the light of hope is very dim.

Good luck, my friend!
I look forward to keeping up with your posts.

HeadHeldHigh,
could you please elaborate on the Red Flag,
i know your meaning its some kind of a Red flag that
i should be aware of or watching for i am just not
sure what that Red Flag is?
Thanks for your input
RR

Mcat,
thank you for the words of Encouragement,
i know the path that i am choosing to save
my marriage right now is tough. However in
the end by bettering myself, i come out
a winner no matter what happens. I am looking
forward to the Journey with open Eyes and an
open heart.

Thanks again for your Words, i very much appreciate them.

Warmest Reagards,
RR

RR

The red flag means the writer thinks your wife's remarks are indicative she is having an affair.

I'm not convinced. I felt very much as your wife does and said similar things the first time I left and I was not having an A.

My H was controlling and verbally abusive, and I was hurt and confused by his behaviour. And I wanted out, pure and simple.

You need to keep doing the MB stuff, irregardless of whether your wife comes back. You can't have a healthy happy relationship with anyone without doing the work.

Keep us posted.

I don't think any of the posters here are necessarily "convinced" either ~ what we are saying is that it bears further investigation...

Skyblue,
thank you for your insight, at this point, you seem to be very aligned with how my wife is from personal experiece. I had a discussion with her yesterday as i posted up. Not sure what to make of it. I am having a hard time getting a definative answer from the boards here. Do i shut off all contact as some experts say...I.E, chasing, pursuing, contacting her, and wait for her to come to me as time permits or do i walk that thin line between sparing contact with her that i initiate and let her see the good in me as i work on myself. I know i am getting one shot at this...Nothing more, please advise?
Thanks
RR

SusieQ,
Thank you, i am not convinced, am doing a little snooping, i think its way more in line with SkyBlues previous situation. They are similar, the circumstances would have been almost Impossible to have an Affair, before she left, we worked from home together, and have one car. She was not a drinker/Partier or go out with the girls kind of Gal. I just feel it would have been almost Impossible, but am diggin a little. At this point i posted the last conversation with her above, and as i mentioned to SKy, i am just a loss for how i go about this...Over the last 3 weeks i have taken personal inventory, and am starting to work on myself and Journey, as far as interaction with my wife...now what?

Regards,
RR

because you need to know what you're dealing with. How do you know she's not on Facebook communicating to old flame? Just something to consider.

I'm in agreement with Sky's post. The good thing is your wife is open to working with you. Although she's claiming she's 100% emotionally detached, I don't buy it. If she was she wouldn't offer to do anything for you. She would shut you out. I believe Harley when he writes about one spouse bringing other out of withdrawal. In his five steps he writes you need to know your the lovebusters and then the top emotional needs. Ask her if she'll take the Lovebuster's questionnaire and if she'll spend some time with you to discuss it after she's filled it out. Then do the same with the Emotional Needs questionnaire but not in the same week.

I don't know if telling your W she needs to find herself was a good thing. The reality is she owns 50% of the marriage and although she's nice and sweet - she will most likely encounter the same problems with the next guy because instead of working at the M she would rather walk away - that is her solution. Eventualy you'll need to point this out to her. A call to Haley will help you what words to say to your wife.

Gg

GG,
Thank you, your posts are keeping me sane, and my head in the game. She already said she would fill out questionaires as i needed them, to help me help myself... She thinks she is doing me a favor, she does not think she is working on our marriage. I am speculating, if i can at least get her to fill out the love busters, thats a start to help me know how to deal with her.

Where i get confused, i have the book " THe Divorce Remedy" and Dr Phil "Relationship Rescue", the divorce remedy calls it Walking out syndrome, and says...The only chance i have to is shut off all communication and let her miss and perhaps come back too me. The author also claims that it is so sad for women who do this, because this is the time when the man will do cartwheels,and is open to becoming a Phenomenal Husband.

This seems to go against what Dr. Harley suggests with the information i can find here. So this is where i get Stymied. Do you have any thoughts or Input... I want to call Dr. Harley so bad, but my funds are serverly tight. I moved 2 weeks ago, and need to rebuild my cashflow. Thanks again, yours and Skyblues insight are helping tremendously...

Thanks Again for all Input..
Regards,
RR

In your wife's case I think no communication will be very bad. I think it will guarantee 100% emotional disconnect and once she reaches 100%, it will be that much harder to get her back. You need to be a presence in her life, especially since you guys are separated.

Gg

GG,
thank you for your quick response. I tend to agree with you completely. Its trying to sort out what steps to take in my plan right now to make this happen, or make the best effort possible..Confused where to start.

Regards,
RR

RR, there are a lot of programs and philosophies out there. I would suggest you disregard those programs and work a solid MB plan using the concepts found on this site. That is your best plan of attack. The owner of this website has saved thousands of marriages using these tools, and the couples have gone on to not just save their M, but to rebuild a much better one.

RR

I think being in NC with your wife would be detrimental. She needs your loving reassurance that you are there for her, although you won't be pressuring her. (With sensitive people, pressure leads to anxiety.)

My stbx has been NC with me since I left. Our marriage is pretty broken and will most likely lead to divorce, but with NC D is pretty much a done deal.

Marital Bliss,
Thank you for your insight. I agree with what your saying, its logical and makes sense Dr Harleys Program. Thanks for all the input you have been giving me..It helps.
Regards,
RR

Skyblue,
thank you so much, it really apprears that you and my wife are cut from the same cloth. You are validating my thoughts, though i dont have an exact plan of attack as of yet. I am working on it, i just dont want to blow this if there is any kind of chance at saving my Marriage.

Your posts, are warm and reassuring, and make me feel good about doing the right things.

I appreciate you very much, thanks for taking time our of your life to help me better mine.

Thanks
RR

I hope all goes well with you RR. Divorce is truly horrible. Much much worse than one imagines it to be.

Willing to watch and see what happens here.

My prediction will be that his wife is a WW.

When a wife say's go ahead I won't mind that you get a little something on your own it's because they have been getting it from an OM.

This eases the WW guilt because you are getting laid on the side now as well. WW got her BH to sink down to her level. WW gets the BH to trhough away their moral high ground.

The old kettle calling the pot black.

I don't want to badger you, or try to beat this into your head. In fact, I'm hoping the premonitions of all the posters who smell infidelity - myself included - are DEAD WRONG.

However, don't dismiss the possibility, even if your snooping turns nothing up.

As you say, your lives were intertwined enough that you pretty much had things under your nose. She may have learned exactly how to not leave a trail.

The main reason you need to not dismiss it, is because if you are successful, even if your snooping turns up nothing, when you build new romantic love, it may come out.

Infidelity is more common than divorce, more common than walk-away-wives. It's simply more attractive to have your cake and eat it, too - than it is to start all the way over.

Also, based on her pattern of behavior, "Mommy" could very well be enabling her daughter's behavior.

Even considering all of this; while she tells you that she is "done," the fact that this is a pattern of behavior really relinquishes any sympathy in my view. This isn't her "not settling" for an unhappy marriage. This is a manipulative game and temper tantrum.

Yes, maybe she is "not settling" but she is exhibiting a pattern of running away whenever there is a problem, rather than speaking honestly and facing them.

It's great that you are owning your own poo, but it's really easy to smell it when someone buries you neck deep in it, and really it's a two-poo party. She has some diarrhea to own up for herself.

RR,
The link is to a letter written by a husband who feels he lost love for his wife and Harley's response. Although your situations is a little different I think it has good advice on the importance of spending time together.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5044b_qa.html

I agree with MaritalBliss that you will only get overwhelmed researching different relationship books. The first three chapters of Relationship Rescue are great in understanding you own behaviors and I believe what McGraw writes about you can't get right with someone else if you're not right with yourself first. MB principles made the most sense to my marriage and the principles have worked fro us and I've seen it work for many who post here.

Here's another letter written that confirms you need to take it slow with your wife:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5012_qa.html


Are you 100% sure the trip your wife is taking is in deed with her parents - worth checking out (without her knowing).

Gg

Head Held High,
thank you so much for some more insight. I have made a call and she is in fact with her Daughters, mom and dad, and the rest of the family at the cabin as we speak. Confirmed an hour ago. I truly believe, as i analyze my personal behaviors that right now i have a Walk Away Wife. Now, totally agree that mom and dad are easily enabling her as they have done it twice over the last 4 years, once earlier during our marriage. Rather that find MB, which i didnt even attemp to look for, i just turned on the nice buy for a few weeks and poof she came home, i did turn on a lotta pressure though with that.

LoL i actually smiled at some of your funny analogies. Thank you ver much. Now she claims she left because she was not settleing for an unhappy Marriage. I am her 2nd one FYI. It would be impossible, based on the last 60 days for her to be having Affair, went back through everything. We were apart 3 nights for about 2-3 hours and i had the car. If someone would have pulled up, my neighbor would have called me, as he always thinks someone was breaking in, For what its worth. I am doing some additional snooping, but fear, i will come up with nothing. Though that is not to say, that at this point, she might not consider it, as in her mind, she is 100% done. As she asked me yesterday if i was ready to let her go.

These forums are priceless, and do help a Spouse keep some form of sanity, tyvm.

I am going to post up the 2 texts verbatim today that i got, and will love to see yours and some of the posters insights.

TYVM

RR

GG,
thanks again, i cannot say enough. I had read those letters both of them a few days ago, and re read them again just now as you gave me the links. I agree, taking it slow with no pain at this point is probably the best route. Yes i checked on the trip, with kids and parents confirmed today via phone. I have totally Bought in to MB principals today. Am trying to sell a few items on craigslist right now to book an Appt with Dr. Harly as soon as possible.

I am posting up the Text conversation from today...Your thoughts or insights, really appreciated.

Thanks again
RR

Todays update as of 1:30pm

We had a phone conversation yesterday lasting almost an 1 1/2 hours where i just listened and let her vent, this is the first time in a long time i can remember doing this.

Heres what happend today.

I sent the following text at 11:00
Good Morning, I really Appreciated your thoughts, feelings and insight yesterday. Have a Fabulous Trip!!! Thank You !!!


I then sent Text # 2 at 12:26pm
Dearest Wife, I care about you, your feelings and well being. No matter what happens, I am here for You and I care.



At 1:21pm this is the text that i recieved back from Wife
Thank you (myname) I hope you are having a nice day today. It was good to talk to you where i felt like i could be open and honest and you were listening. I really do just want you to find happiness. You deserve that and i know you work hard for that. I am confident you will find or achieve it someday.


My Final Text 45 minutes later after i thought about it, and I got no response back of any kind.

(HerName), if felt really good taking the time to Listen to you and Really hear what you were saying. I respect how you feel and what your going through. No matter what I am here for you and I Love You...

Ok thats todays conversation...On one side, if felt good, like a triumphant baby step. Which i know we are suppose to celebrate those small baby steps. She has not thanked me like that in years, as i am usually closed off. How does one look into things like this and when or how much communication is too much...

I am hoping this came across as No Pressure, and validating her feelings, and showing her i cared. (No IDEA) how its percieved by others here on the Boards.

All insight welcomed, and thanks to everyone helping me along my Journey with MB.

Kindest Regards,
RR

Is Part 2 from her to you?

Gg

GG,
this is what i recived from her...

At 1:21pm this is the text that i recieved back from Wife
Thank you (myname) I hope you are having a nice day today. It was good to talk to you where i felt like i could be open and honest and you were listening. I really do just want you to find happiness. You deserve that and i know you work hard for that. I am confident you will find or achieve it someday.

Your wife is saying "I care enough about you that it matters to me if you are listening to me" and at the same time says "I want you to find happiness someday even if it is without me." Which by the way is easy for her to do because she has mom and dad's protection.

If her parents were not alive and she didn't have their house
to run to - what would she do?

Ignore her remarks about you moving on. Work on your plan and don't txt to much - it will make you seem need and she won't like that.

Gg

@RR -

Listen to marital and gg615. Work your plan. BTW, what is your plan?

The language your wife is using sounds like wayward babble.


This is a standard "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

gg615 is exactly right! Don't pay attention to this. If your wife was done with you she already would have an attorney to file divorce and told you not to call her anymore.

So now your wife doesn't want to work anymore programs, what are you doing to save your marriage?

What are your wife's top 5 ENs?

Have you checked out Harley radio spots? You can also post question for Harley to answer on radio - more info in "Want Harley Advice" thread in Announcement forum on home page.

gg

Clark,
i have printed out all the material from Dr.Harley. Right now going into the end of week 3 since she left, i Found MB and felt like i had solutions. I am working on me directly, working on how i engage with Wife, and getting my life in order.

Started Exerecising 4 days ago, been saying i was going to do this for 2 years.

Unpacking 3 boxs a night, and putting things away into the new house.

Deciding if a career change, would create more stablitiy in my Marriage.
Lots of self Care right now...

and, I Just sold a few things a couple of hours ago, so i can schedule an APPT with DR Harley in the Morning. I am hoping they can fit me in prior to friday, so i can get a Concise Plan of how to proceed.

No matter what i am Committed to becoming the Very Best Husband Material i can. I know this does not happen over a week, a month, 6 months or a year. Its a work in progress, and i am enjoying the Journey, rather than focusing on the Destination. Am hoping the Final Destination is Reconciliation with my wife, and living a Healthy Happy Marrital Life.

Wifes top 5 EN's this is only my speculation, i am sure at this time, i dont have a good definition.
1-To feel loved and secure by unselfish acts of kindness. Like backrubs, cards, flowers on occassion...Physial contact without sexual intentions.
2-She says all the time, for me to be happy (not sure if this is the Giver in her or if i missed this EN)
3-To feel connected with family Priority #1 not Money.
4-To feel appreciated.....(I have failed here Miserably--I took her for massive Granted)
5-For the world to just be Kind and caring, she still believes that there is 100% good intentions with all humanity, and that people say she lives in a dream world she does not believe them. <----I would tell her all the time this is not reality, Not the real world.

Clark, did i miss the mark above....Some of those now that i am looking do not look like EN..

Thanks for you input and thoughts, and am open to any thoughts you have.

Clark-I really appreciate your time

RR

TY GG, just sold a few items, and called Dr. Harleys office. Hoping to get an appt with him before the weeks end.

My, how yourself, and so many others give of their time and insight so freely. I wish i would have found MB prior to the walk out wife. For now, all i can do is work on me, and do the best to repair the damage i have done.

Thanks again for all your kindness

RR

A few things;

1) Being her doormat is not serving either of you in any fashion, period, and never will.

2) With some of what she's spewing, I suggest you look up "reverse fog babble." She really is babbling.

3) Hello? How many times has she done this again? 3 times? Screw that noise! You are feeling all bad? Please! She's manipulative.

4) Hmmmmm.... she walked away from one marriage, can't be too hard to make up a pile of crap and run away again.

Plan A, but... dude, grow a spine.

I've seen this before, too. My sister is has as many marriages as she has decades of life. Every time there is a problem, she runs away. She's already done it once to her current husband, packed up her [censored] and hid out.


Ladies, no excuses. This is both manipulative and abusive, I don't care what your freaking reasons are.

@RR -

Are you committed to saving your marriage?


@RR stay focused on the prize. Committing to saving your marriage. If in two years your divorced, then start looking down the road.

I ask again what is your wife's top 5 ENs

Clark,
Absolutely, Unequivicalablly, am committed 100% to saving my Marriage. Right now i am the only dog in the fight. I know i can work on me every day... Here the EN'S i edited them in for you..so not sure if they are right or not...

Wifes top 5 EN's this is only my speculation, i am sure at this time, i dont have a good definition.
1-To feel loved and secure by unselfish acts of kindness. Like backrubs, cards, flowers on occassion...Physial contact without sexual intentions.
2-She says all the time, for me to be happy (not sure if this is the Giver in her or if i missed this EN)
3-To feel connected with family Priority #1 not Money.
4-To feel appreciated.....(I have failed here Miserably--I took her for massive Granted)
5-For the world to just be Kind and caring, she still believes that there is 100% good intentions with all humanity, and that people say she lives in a dream world she does not believe them. <----I would tell her all the time this is not reality, Not the real world.

Clark...does this give you insight. She is amazingly sensitive to people, things, nature, writing...very soft spoken, non confrontational, wants everyone to be happy at all times, and dislkes seeing anyone feel bad.

Waiting paitently for your response.. TY Clark

RR

Care to contribute anything, oh, I don't know...POSITIVE for a change, Road?

Tyvm Bliss,
that one kind of tore me up good earlier today, that comment, however i am so thankful that you and others, are here. You have no idea what it means to me.

RR

Not every poster has your best interest in mind, RR. I saw that post and just had to respond. I know posters can put up a lot of things here and not be breaking any rules, but sometimes they could be a little more...supportive.

Hang in there, RR. Keep reading!

Can you put these into any of these categories:

The Most Important Emotional Needs

Side Note:

Do you know what this is called?

Ckark i am absolutely sure that the 3 that i was able to identify are
3 of her top 5. Those definately fit the bill for sure.
I answered the emotional questions up above in BOLD TYPE. Thanks
Waiting patiently for your insight.
Thank you Very Much
RR

Good Morning...Feeling better today. Just got off the phone with Dr. Harleys Office. Have my first "Appointment" sceduled for Wednesday morning,towmmorrow. I am excited and looking forward to it.

Now, i have to stay off the emotional roller coaster for the day, as it ebbs and flows.

RR

Keep your arms and legs inside the car until the ride comes to a complete stop.

You're doing great, RR!

RR,

Just a suggestion, if they didn't already suggest it on the phone call to the coaching center...

Copy/paste your first two posts on this thread to the coaching center--atten to whomever your appointment is with.. Add day & time of your appt.

Allowing them to have a summary of your situation prior to the call will save you valuable expensive phone time.

Also, check the MB Announcement Forum and read the thread about the MB Radio show. You might consider that also. You get to talk to Dr Harley free, get his advice & suggestions, AND he'll send you a free book! It's a GREAT deal! Again, it can be completely anonymous. You don't have to give your real life name or location.

You're doing good! Hang in there!!

I agree with you on the three emotional needs you've identified, based on what you've said.

I'm just going to say that number five that you wrote simply sounds to me like she wants to be free of your disrespectful judgement. You trying to tell her that her idea of the world is naive and not reality is a disrespectful judgement. You assuming you know better and taking a superior, teaching position.

EN's and Love Busters go hand in hand. Eliminating love busters is vital, otherwise everything you do to meet her ENs will be wasted effort as you give with one hand and take with the other.

It sounds like you've been working hard on eliminating angry outbursts, now you need to learn to identify the others. DJ's are the hardest ones I think to learn to see for yourself.

MaritalBliss,
ty so much for the words of Encouragement!! I am looking forward to building my strategic plan 2morrow to win back my wife and save my Marriage.

People like yourself, so giving, make this world priceless.

Thanks
RR

Nerly,
thank you so much for the input, your timing was perfect, i was able to cut and paste my posts, and give the forum thread name to Dr. Harley prior to my Session 2morrow. Without your post, it wouldnt have happend. Thanks for the Great information and ideas. My biggest concern at this point...It appears of all the Marriage breakups, the Walk Out Wife is the hardest one to bring back. I know the deck is severely stacked against me, however during this time i will grow, learn, and become an incredible husband, i can feel it.

Thanks for you kind words and input.

Regards,
RR

Rosycheeks,
i could not agree with you more. When i look at my strings of behavior, and how they tie together, "WOW" how could she be happy, and what woman in her right mind would be. I know i have at least 3 of her Top 5 EN's figured out, the other 2 i have no idea at this point. The lovebusters are going to be hard, because she is not participating in the MB in any way shape or form. In her mind, with the BABBLE she is displaying. We are done, through, and headed to Divorce. Thank God i Disagree, and now realize our habits form us, and so many of these things i can change Easily.
Ya the AO behavior..ugggg and the the DJ is even more ugggg... Now that i know what i am doing, i am hoping i get a 2nd chance. I know this go around, we can have an Incredible Healthy Loving Marriage.

Thanks for all your insight and ideas. I appreciate them
Regards,
RR

You're welcome. DJing is one of my most common mistakes. I have had to work hardest on wiping out my belief that I know better than my husband or that my opinions or beliefs are more valid.

Rosycheeks is right about the Love Busting.


How has winning your wife back worked for you in the past? This isn't a competition. You need to look at your wife being in your life as a gift, that needs to be cherished every day. What I'm trying to point out to you that you don't win and then the race is over.

Okay you've identified three of her top ENS: Affection, Family Commitment, and Admiration. In order to get that loving feeling (Intimate ENs) you should be trying to hit: Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Conversation, and Recreational Companionship. It is good that one of her top 5 ENs is one of the intimates. Conversation you're going to get for free, as long as you can stop the LB.

Have you read up on Love Busting?
Can you see how your LB is not meeting her Admiration EN?

[quote=clark_kent]Rosycheeks is right about the Love Busting.

How has winning your wife back worked for you in the past? This isn't a competition. You need to look at your wife being in your life as a gift, that needs to be cherished every day. What I'm trying to point out to you that you don't win and then the race is over.

Clark, I can not agree more, and really appreciate your direct approach to me, that rings right to my door. I can see how even choosing my words here can have an effect on my mindset. (going to be very cognicent of that TYVM) In the past, i definately saw everything as a competition. The more i explore MB and read, the more deep understanding i am getting about my marriage, myself, and my wife.

I cannot agree more, i did a horrible job of cherishing my Gift in the past, (though i thought i was) but am understaning more and more everyday. Exactly, i am not looking to win her back and have the race over. I am looking for her to allow me the Privelidge of being her Husband, and living in a Healthy Happy Marriage, with MB principals.

Okay you've identified three of her top ENS: Affection, Family Commitment, and Admiration. In order to get that loving feeling (Intimate ENs) you should be trying to hit: Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Conversation, and Recreational Companionship. It is good that one of her top 5 ENs is one of the intimates. Conversation you're going to get for free, as long as you can stop the LB.

I am very very aware of the LB, and am being very cautious at my early stages when i talk to her. The conversation is flowing, but i am making it about her, not about me, engaging, and listening. (does this sound about right?) The sexual fullfillment is not even on the table now at any point. I might be able to pull off some Recreational Companionship over the next 2 weeks.
Have you read up on Love Busting?

*** I would tell her all the time this is not reality, Not the real world.***
Can you see how your LB is not meeting her Admiration EN?

Absolutely Clark, i see it plain as day now. Not only does it not meet the AD EN, but it goes down the path of a severe LB. Since she is a sensitive soul, it probably has even a more profound effect. Based on statements she has made over the last 2 weeks, this is one of the biggest LB's i have done.

Clark, please keep it coming, i am all ears. The incredible insight i am getting is Amazing, uplifting, and believe it or not, easy. I just never realized what i was doing til she was gone and then i found MB.

Thanks
RR

Out of the three states of marriage, which state is your wife in?

In order for your marriage to get into the state of intimacy what must occur?

Trick question: How are you dealing with your Taker?

Great suggestion by Nerly. Hopefully I'm not to late in adding - have your questions listed (a checklist) prior to the call to make sure you cover what you want to know. Good luck with your session.



Gg

[quote=clark_kent]Out of the three states of marriage, which state is your wife in?
Withdrawl mostly with a Little Conflict...She really is trying to act like she has moved on. She will still allow touching, massages, and some affection, no kissing or anything past that.

In order for your marriage to get into the state of intimacy what must occur?
She is going to have to see Action and change within me, with no words. It will have to be consistent over time with no Lovebuster Violations, and lots of EN Love Bank Deposits.

Trick question: How are you dealing with your Taker?
Clark right now, i am putting the focus on her, and just trying to be her best friend, Expecting nothing at all, the taker has been deposited. To combat this, i am also pausing before speaking to make sure i dont say the wrong thing that becomes a Love buster Violation. The taker is me has been horrible, now it is time to give unconditionally with no expectation of any kind.[/quote]

GG,
thank you for the suggestion, am going to get up really early to prepare. Wjust left after being here for 2 hours. The good side, she filled out the Love Buster Questionaire and the EN questionaire. YEA YEA YEA!! She said she did it to help me out, so when the next woman comes along she dosnt endure what she did.

On a side note, after she left, ugggg... read love busters and wanted to puke. I have not been a good husband at all, in fact if i were me i would have probably left me 10 years ago. She was open and honest, and i can see where i was really screwing up, and i learned some interesting things. The cool thing, every marriage on the planet should be required to fill out Love Buster and EN questionaires prior to getting married. Marital life would be so much better for everyone around, and Marriage would be AMAZING.

Thanks for the Input GG
RR

Little favor here, bud.

QUIT WITH THE SELF-BLAME PITY PARTY.

I'll bet top dollar that BOTH YOU AND YOUR WIFE got it wrong the whole way.

Hello? She runs to mamma every time there is a conflict. That's not exactly model wife behavior.

Yeah, she walked away, and you want it to work... but SHE will eventually have to make some changes, too.

Kudos to you for taking the lead, but quit shouldering all the blame, weak and pathetic is not attractive bud.

@ Held Held High, thank you for the input. I agree, we are both accountable for actions. Being the Major issue in our marriage, i have so much to fix in behavior. In the mean time, i am going to try and work at Walking tall. Thanks for the kudos, I appreciate that.

UPDATE: Had my first call with Dr. Harley today, he was gracious, spent some extra time with me, and we were able to start compiling a road Map.

Heres where i am at, Wcame over and filled out the LB and EN qeustionaire. Can i just say i am Shocked, i had no idea, wish i would have had this information long long ago. On the EN qeustionaire, she filled out everything thorough except for answering the questions in regards to... How could this be better in your Marriage. Did not answer the last question on each of the 10 EN'S. Dr. Harley not surprised.

It is so hard to ride this emotional roller coaster when every signal I am getting from Spouse, Verbal and Non Verbal says she is done. I ofter wonder, if she had the $600 would she file papers today. (have my fingers crossed her parents dont pay for it)

How are, or did others of you Cope with the emontional Roller Coaster, how do you maintain your Resolve to Fight for your Marriage? I know now, as i adopt the core behaviors of MB i am going to be a Fantastic Husband. I want that to Be with W , Its a slow Journey and i cant help but think she will not be willing to wait 4,5,6 or 12 months to really see the big picture as changes of Behavior Evolve and grow.

Why isnt MB taught in College or Forced be4 u get a Marriage license...(if i had only known) I know now, so i am taking that as a Fabulous Positive. Its been a long emotional roller coaster day, my Session was at 9am this morning, and is all i have focused on all day.

Wife has removed her ring...
All contact is initiated by me...
I am doing my best now to avoid all Love Busters...

How can i show Her, her #1 EN which is Affection without applying pressuer, or her feeling like i am manipulating or coering her. (Very Confused Here)

As always, thank you so much to everyone contributing and supporting me, i cant thank you enough.

Looking forward to Responses...

Warmest Regards,
RR

Hi RR,



Start slow. When you meet with her and you have a good time and then feel like a hug - ask her if its okay. There's nothing wrong with asking.



Don't overwhelm yourself with the what ifs of the future. The reality is you may end up losing your wife even after your efforts. At least you can walk away knowing you did your best and gave it 100% - she won't be able to say the same. Hopefully you being her best friend will help open the door returning to love and save the marriage.

Gg

GG,
thanks for the words of encouragement, and the ideas on Affection.

Just got off the phone with her, me initiating contact. She was warm then Cold. on then off . She did ask about my appointment with Dr. Harley. Told her it was fantastic and enlightening. Got her to agree to review the 10 concepts and give me her perspective on its foundations.

She comments, i sure hope you can change this so your next wife or relationship does not go through what i did. Work really hard at it. Then says... Do you understand now, why i didnt want to go another round with you. <---I said, yes at this time i understand why.
(I felt like a wuss for not saying something like, Ya, but you left our Marriage and I am working to change it, you have given up. But i kept it to myself.) Its times like these when its the toughest. She makes a point to Re-Iterate every time we are on the phone she is done. (This part is very depressing)

I know its all part of the process, she is so sensitive i have to walk on eggshells right now. I know the MB principal changes are Imminent for me and with these we could have an incredible Marriage. I just wish she could see it, and give me some time to Show her. I constantly feel like the clock is ticking at a High rate of speed, she has her ring off, shes going to a Big New Years Party, and repeatedly tells me its over, done, shes out.

Thanks...

RR

@RR -


This could be a very good way to have a conversation. To let her know that you understand her position on this, but that it is very hurtful to you. Of course do it without LB.

I think that being open and honest in your relationship with your wife has been absent. You are being her lighthouse right now. You are showing her by your actions what it can be like to be in a recovered marriage with you. Being open and honest with your feelings about the things she says to you could be a good place to start. Remember NO LB. For me it is so much easier for me to LB when I get emotional. Talking about my feelings is emotional for me.

Does your wife believe that you have given up on your marriage and this is all part of you moving on?

I think you really need to be clear that you are fighting for your marriage. DON'T MISLEAD HER! This is only my opinion. Maybe others might have a different take on this.

@Clark
Ty for some more insight. Heres the update, its either going to be ok, or shoot me in the foot. However, not a whole lot too lose.

She was able to vent again tonight 2 me on the phone, she talked about how are wedding was not what she wanted, and the no Honeymoon, and i found out about a horrible conversation she had with my mom the night be4. I let her get it all out, showed love and care, and practiced being a good listener.

I almost LB a couple of times during the 1 hour conversation, like you i get emotional. We discussed my call with Dr. Harley some today, and i continually emphisized that i was ignorant, made tons of mistakes. But with the new education i was getting, which would take TIME, i knew without a doubt over time i would make a great husband. A husband who could treat her with the Care she deserved and Cherish her.

I also told her, i didnt want a divorce, i shared my feelings and shared with her exactly what i wanted. For her to remain where she is, for me to remain here, for Me to work on myself.

In the meantime, we would talk via the phone and go out on one or two fun dates a week, no stress no pressure. That i need time to get my education so i can SHOW her by action rather than Words.(In the past its always words, and thats how we end up in the vicious cycle.)

She didnt say yes, and didnt say no, she said, i want a break from you, i need time, i dont want to talk to you for at least a week. (with care i said, i understand, and care. Take the time you need when your ready you call me.)<----was trying hard not to LB with Disrespectful Judgement. I told her how much i care, that i thought we could have an incredible marriage that we both deserved, but i needed time to improve my education and work on me.

That was the end of the call...we hung up i told her i care and i love you...

Any thoughts....What could i have done better? Was that applying pressure by expressing what i want? (friend said yes under the circumstances) i think it was time to stand up for my position and not be a doormat, but still operate with Care, Compassion and Love. She has shared more with me on the phone over the last 3 calls then over the last 3 years. Only thing, she was crying again tonight, and said she has cried every day since leaving and she was ready to stop crying. (i didnt know what to say)

Warmest Regards,
RR

She asked for a week. Give it to her. I think its great that you are getting some historical honesty. You've expressed to her that you want to fight for your marriage. The next time you talk, stop talking about the state of your marriage. Just talk to her. Use inquiry to find out how her week went.

Remember when you were dating. Did all you talk about is the state of your relationship? NOPE!

Sit tight, wait the week.

RR,
I think you're doing everything you can right now - in time you will be able to do more. Clark is right on the dating thing - stay focused on that. Giving her a week means no txt, no phone, no mail, no contact - respect her wishes.

Gg

@GG thanks for the input...

Update: 4:00pm aint love grand.. Amazing how when u try to do something respectful, you still hit an LB. Urggg...

Wife agreed last night to review MB concepts, i printed out all 57 pages, plus love busters, and EN's. Included the book, His needs Her Needs. Packaged up in envelope. At the last part of call last night, she said: I need to get you out of my head for awhile i need a break, i will call you next week. I am like great, i repect your need for time. Take all you need...i am here working on me MB concepts to save our marriage, she is still saying she wants to go seperate ways.

Heres my FUBAR in an attempt to help her out so she didnt have to come bye today (trying to respect her need for some alone time) i took the envelope with all the materials to a Mutual Friends house. (Her best friend, and one of my Good Friends) Best friend does not know i have moved 3 weeks ago, right down the street, and informs me W has shared almost nothing with her at all. Wife is private. We end up visiting for 2 hours, she asks about MB as she is wondering why i am so calm and Peaceful. I share some of it with her, and tell her, i am focused on me, and Fighting to save my Marriage, i dont want a divorce. Further, i explain to her, under the principals and new info, that i know i can be a Fantastic Husband over time. She was pretty excited.

I leave, she calls Wife, tells wife there is package here and we ended up visiting for 2 hours. Also tells wife, i was trying to respect her privacy and that she could have all the No Contact time she needed. That i would wait til i heard from her, and give her space.

That call lasted 2 mins between the 2. Wife calls me, Raging mad, and Crying again for the 12 day in a row. Understand, she is sensitive and crying is ok, ragin mad, not like her at all.

Wife acts like she feels betrayed, hurt that i did that. I explained that i was trying to be respectful of NC, i had put some money in the envelope that i know she needed, and the last thing i wanted to do was hurt her. ( Dam my Wife is Sensitive)She is like, i was coming to get it today, i knew i said i would. ( i am thinking but did not say, no call , no text, no come by, what am i too think?) The last thing she says, i will call you next week, the week after, or maybey weeks after that. Again, thanks to MB Principals...[/b I was able to stay calm through the whole thing, relaxed, and no LB ing. Focused on comfort, care and support. It was easily actually even when i was under fire. I expressed to her i was sorry that she felt like i made her feel that way.

I really hate these roller coaster rides... I also told her, we did not talk about her, it was about me, MB and outside things. [b](she acted like i was crazy, Wth do you guys talk about for 2 hours)

I know she is still very emotional right now, but i have never heard her speak to me like this. I know emotions can change fast, but Darn It, its times like these when i feel the effort is futile and falling on deaf ears. I know its about being a LIGHTHOUSE I guess time is going to tell on this one, i know she cant afford to File Divorce Papers, but i sure got a Knot in my stomache after this call.

Thanks for listening...I can see MB working well in the rest of my life and interactions with Wife.

All input always appreciated.

RR

WooHoo! @RR, I asked you how do you go from withdrawal to intimacy. So how do you?

I do have a question. Does she act jealous?

@RR -


What is this? Maybe she has a right to be sensitive. Why do you think she is sensitive? IDK, only she does. Remember inquiry is a good conversation starter. If I was to hazard a guess, it would be: HER FREAKIN' MARRIAGE IS OVER.

RR,
I have a different take on this. She was used to things being a certain way for many years. Her parents are her soft pillow to fall. YOU are changing all that. She is fearful because she does not know what these changes will bring. This is why she is confused. It's no longer just changing the marriage - its changing the her life. Do I make sense?

Gg

I suspect that, if I met your wife, I wouldn't assume she was 'sensitive' in the least. I would assume she was HARD.

She got her money. She's good.

RR, do NOT help your WW conduct her A! Do NOT roll over for her! And QUIT GIVING HER MONEY. If she needs marital money it needs to be for MARITAL THINGS.

Clark LOL, Thanks.

I know she has to come from Shutdown, to Conflict, to be lead back to intimicy. Its days like tody, i think, OH NO, if she had the money, she would go file. She was so pissed at me.

No, she has no jealous bones in her body. She didnt act jealous at all. Believe it or not, if 6 months down the road that friend and i started dating for some dumb reason. She would be the first to say congrats. (I know a little warped )

Clark what did you mean by this... (What is this? Maybe she has a right to be sensitive. Why do you think she is sensitive? IDK, only she does. Remember inquiry is a good conversation starter.) If I was to hazard a guess, it would be: HER FREAKIN' MARRIAGE IS OVER. (what are you saying? She is 100% completely done, and i should just throw in the towel, and quit going through this roller coaster ride?)

For what its worth, she says she has talked to know one, obviously when you dont tell your best friend anything, and wait to tell her 3 weeks later i moved right down the street... Thoughts?
Thanks RR

GG,
i think i get what your saying,but am still confused some. I am trying hard not to look into it. She is living in a camper in back of Moms, no money, no car, no Job, and somehow that is better than trying to work on our marriage with me, or at least give me some time to show her as i have asked. I am doing my best to be a her LIGHTHOUSE right now.

Trying to look at it through your eyes as you viewed it, do you really think if she was thinking that way, that she would keep telling me at least once every time we talk that its over. Or that we are finished, or i am a private person its my business, and when we finish this divorce maybey i will talk about it? ( I am not sure i get really confused myself sometimes ) She filled out the LB and EN questionaire, only on the terms that it was helping me help myself, so my next relationship was Healthy. (she is that kind of woman and one who still believes after all this, we could be friends and would want it that way) Its the no conflict, everyone happy, no sadness personality.

Any more thoughts...Today i am at peace and calmness but definately feeling like she has 100% made up her mind.

Thanks
RR

MaritalBliss,
Thank you for the insight..Couple of questions. You would love her as everyone else who meets her does. Warm, friendly, dependable and Attractive. Everyone loves her for sure. She just never ever shares her private feelings at all. THis has been one of our challenges.

I am trying to be tough, she doesnt ask for the money, i offer it. What is conduct her A?(sorry no idea) I feel like if i give her the NC, or in the past few weeks do not initiate contact, she has no opportunity to see the improvements with MB. (I am scared for sure without the contact she cant see it, words with her will not work only action. In the past its always been words) Today friend, noticed immediate difference within 4 minutes of me being there and commented.

Looking for more input now...I guess i keep feeling that if i lose Contact, she cant see the action, therefore she is done. (keep in mind, her first divorce, we were together for 5 years before i found out they were not legally divorced, so without the money, its not on her priorty list. Its almost like right now, its just a piece of paper, she has taken off her Ring.)

Thanks for your input...I am all ears.

RR

IMHO, she is trying to convince herself that her marriage with you is over. That in its self puts her on the roller-coaster. This would definitely fall into what @gg is saying. She's had this idea it is over with you and here you are talking to friends about how you're going to be "Fighting to save my Marriage". Then she is now seeing this new.

Keep up the Plan A, except I think @mb has a point about funding her waywardness.

MaritalBliss,
No evidence of A from RR wife.

RR,
I guess what I'm saying is she's probably dealing with things she's never had to deal with before - getting friend involved in your marriage (unintentionally) because you're trying to become great husband. This makes her look bad if she doesn't want to work on marriage. Although you may think she's 100% decided it may very well be because she's undecided that she is confused and angry. She's not going to admit to you she's undecided - she's to fearful of repeating past. She's dealing with alot right now - seeing a husband breakout of behavior patterns of the past - has to decide if she wants to invest in future - a future unknown to her - either with or without you. I think her confusion, anger is a good thing. Indifference would be bad.

Gg

A or no, I would not suggest that RR give his spouse money in order to conduct her independent behavior.

I suspect there is an affair.

Clark, Thank you very much i get it now. Total Sense... See below please.



GG, thank you so much, you explained it perfectly, and i was not even thinking down that perspective. I know we have to get to some kind of conflict in order to get back to intimacy. My biggest concern, was the NC, and her just locking me out, and with NC, she cant observe behavior. Friend saw it within 4 minutes.

GG, Clark and MaritalBliss, Just want all 3 of you to know how much your posts and support have meant to me over the last week. Your continued interaction and insight has kept me sane, on track, and given me incredible insight. Without you, MB and this forum, i would be the lost ship at sea in the bermuda triangle.

Just wanted you to know how much i appreciate you, your support and your time investment.

Thank you from the bottom of my Heart...

RR

Marital,
I agree he shouldn't enable her IB but his wife has left because of years of neglect - major LB from RR. He's walking a fine line with her right now and it can tilt either way. The wife is not ready to deal with her issues of independent behavior, at least not now. This is just my opinion of course

Gg

GG, and Marital,

I agree about enabling her IB. But totally agree, i have LB so bad for a very long time and feel like i am on a Tightrope daily. I did not get a strategy from Dr. Harley for this, so no idea how to handle it. She is not willing to discuss anything about IB, and is dredging up past anger from past instances (always while crying though hard) the crying causes an instant Migraine as well. (does this fall into LB? )

Some direction on this issue would be Fantastic...I am not giving her much money right now. Never more than $40 at any given time.

Ideas would be well recieved under the RR roof right now. I have done a ton of investigation last few days. No A going on that i can see.

Thanks
RR

What has been investigated?? Did I miss that part?

RR, have you been able to check her email/FB accounts? Have you checked her cell records? Have you placed a GPS or VAR in the car?

Susie,
Have checked out thoroughly. She is driving one of her parents cars no way to place on either. It would have been, and continues to be utterly impossible IMHO. Not being blinded in the Dark here, just 99% sure there is NO A going on. I currently have only Car. I know some here belive its A, under circumstances just have a hard time thinking that is even remotely possible.

Thanks RR

@marital -

Need your take on this. Should he expose to family and friends that he is separated from his wife and that he is fighting for his marriage?

I think this might do two things. One it might keep her from rewriting their breakup.

Two, if their is an OM somebody might know and be willing to clue him in. Also she wont be able to rewrite that he was willing to let her go and be with OM.

RR, this is VERY vague. What have you checked (email, phone, FB what?)? When did you check? Have you checked regularly? We need you to be specific.

DUDE. Be 197% sure. 99% ain't chit. Trust me, if she is cheating, it WILL be in this little pretend, fantasy, 1% gap of yours. Absolutely WILL.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand, then keep doing what you've been doing. And no, don't enable her IB. If she wants anything from you, she needs to commit to being with you.

You don't pay the checker girl at the grocery store to exist, do you?

Right, so why would you do that for her?

Susie,
i am very nervous about exposing methodolgy and details here, in case it is located by Wife. I will say, that i am 99% sure there is absolutely no OM at this time or A going on. The 1% is such a small window of opportunity, that its almost non existent. I hope you can appreciate, but i am a very very Savy Internet Marketing Consultant and know my way around the Internet way better than Most. Hope this helps, and please, if i offended you in any way, i am sorry, was not my intention.

Thanks for all your input, advice and Help
RR

Clark, this is some good insight, i have told 1 of my good friends, my parents, and the one friend today. They all know i am Using MB principals, changing behavior and wanting to save my marriage. I have not said a word to her parents at all. We are not close. As of today, she has not even told them i have a new house 7 blocks away from them and thats been 3 weeks. She is a very private person, and apparently is keeping it that way at this point.
I am so curious to see what MaritalBliss has to say on this.



HeadHeldHigh,
no i wouldnt pay the checker girl, she is not asking me for money at all. I have offered about $40 each week, nothing more, enough for smokes and whatever. Remember, she has no income (other than what parents are giving her)living in a Camp Trailer in back of parents for privacy, no car / unless she borrows parents, shes pretty much up the creek. Since i am on fine line. So figuring the 40 shows good faith, but not enough to enable her IB, i could easily be wrong though. She has so much pride, she wont ask for money no matter what, she even offered to give me back the 2 plus carat ring a few days ago.

Any more insight is good. Today i am at peace for the first time in 3 weeks. It feels pretty darn good.

Warmest Regards,
RR

No worries ~ you didn't offend me...

The only thing I can say is that the reason I am pushing to make sure you check everything out is...I was so completely close-minded to the possibility of an A that I missed the evidence that was right under my nose. Same thing happened to my sister. Same thing happens here on the boards all the time.

Anyway, one other thing, if she has a cell, I hope you are checking the records and blocking your phone and calling any unknown #s and investigating anything suspicious. We have had people here have FB affairs, text affairs, without even ever seeing the person, etc. It doesn't matter if she doesn't have a car. Good luck!

RR, there are common methods that can be used to confirm an A. And you don't have access to them! You say you can't do anything with her folks' car. You don't have access to her computer. You don't have access to her phone. You don't know where she goes when she's not behind her parents' house.

It would be difficult to confirm an A or lack of one since you have no access to your W.

No, I wouldn't do this just yet. At least not in the sense of "Exposure" as we define it here. He has no evidence of an A, but making a lot of exposure noise to the tune of fighting for his marriage will tip his hand that he's actively trying to save his M. If there is an A it may make it more difficult to uncover.

I hope you're right about the 'no-affair' thing, RR. Because you risk a lot if you haven't absolutely confirmed this 110%. We've had posters on this site who argued with us for months, and then finally tried one snooping thing we suggested - and busted their spouse's A. They wasted months arguing with us.

But sure, RR, talk with helpful family members for advice on how to work through hard times in a marriage. You may get some useful advice.
What have you read on this site?

Is there an opportunity to turn this around to your benefit? Is this an oppty to improve relationship? Would her parents be open to hearing you out, just like you explained to the friend, about how you are working on yourself and have hope to save the marriage. Or are her parents closed minded? What type of relationship do her parents have as husband and wife? It would be great if you can get her parents on board to support you in saving the marriage. As a parent I would be worried if I had a 40 year old dauther who keeps returning and has no means of supporting herself. I would question what would happen when I'm not around anymore.

Something else to consider...
There was another guy who posted here about his walk out wife - no matter what he tried, the wife always had a reason for not returning and she would always go back to past incidents even from 10 years prior. It ended up the wife was in a depression and needed medical help. Your wife is 40 - has she been to a doctor and had physical - 40 and beyond bring a lot of hormonal changes to females.

Gg

@Maritalbliss-Talking to family members is a bust. I have one close friend that is very aware whats going on, and is my backend support. He knows i am committed. My parents, are just like well, i guess thats what happens, Very passive.

Based on conversations with Wife, her parents really know nothing at this point since she moved in with them. She hides outback most of the day in camper working on Internet Blog Business. Rarely leaves the house, they still dont know i have moved, and the 2 kids do not know i have moved or that she wants a divorce. All they know she has taken off her ring. She claims she is a private person, and does not want people knowing her business. (I think this is an excuse to push most of the blame on me and Validate her Walk Out, and her IB)

I have read, EN and LB Needs and Questionaires, MB Concepts, Book his needs her needs, Can one spouse save marriage, have read these ones about 8 times each. I am now reading them all every other day, as part of my 3 hours of studying and practicing. Also i had Appt with Dr. Harley on wednesday this week. Also read Divorce Remedey, and Dr. Phil Relationship rescue, did not like either one, the MB principals solid all the way around. I went through all the documentation i could find, on MB homepage, each letter, all of DR. Harleys writings..



Her parents are pretty old fashioned and close minded. They know i have used manipulation and verbal nice guy in the past. I think they would just see it as talk and hollow words. It could go either way (my guess they would love to see me gone, they blame me for the financial problems, yet loved me when we were making 300k a year Five Years ago.) I would run the risk of probably blowing her right out of the water now for talking to them IMHO.

Her parents married 36 years. Relationship is one of existence, definately not healthy. Mom is constantly yipping and yipping at husband about every little thing. In 10 years i have rarely seen a few hours go by without her nagging.

The only problem I see is that you are filling your day up with Relationship. If all you do is Relationship, then all you will be able talk about is relationship. Include other things in your life so that you have other things to talk about.

Right now you are in Plan A. Cool it on the Relationship talk with wife. Talking the talk is great, but now you need to walk the walk. One way to work on the walk is to use MB on other people.

Clark,
thanks for the Input sir... Actually started that this morning believe it or not. Your re-enforcement just made it easier.

Wife started NC yesterday with me saying 1-8 weeks and she would call. I know under MB thats not good for me, as it allows for no Love Bank Deposits, however in the meantime, i am working on myself, and practicing MB principals with others. No texting, calls, email, or in person, or snail mail. I know i am suppose to respect her boundaries and wishes, this is going to be hard, as i know what damage its causing, not helping.

I am pleasntly surprised how easy some of it truly is once you understand. The hardest thing for me, is the Speculation, will she come to her senses or wont she.

Last night was the first night of Peace and Tranquility i have had in weeks, and it felt fantastic. Heart hurts for Marriage and Wife, but peace is pretty soothing. Finally able to quit playing the Coulda, Shouda, Woulda tapes in my head yesterday for the first time.

Thanks again Clark, for your kind words and insight...I am always listening. (This was a huge LB for me, Listening)

RR

Happy New Year to All, thanks for the support, kind words and help.

I just watched the Movie "FIREPROOF" at home by myself, probably the best thing i have done in Years. If you havent watched it yet. Uplifting, creates Hope, makes you think, and most importantly, Explains, "NEVER GIVE UP..." I loved this movie. I would normally never watch this kind of thing, now its so easy. THANK YOU MB and POSTERS

RR

That's not a 1% gap. That's the grand canyon.

HeadHeldHigh,
what are you saying? This case is Hopeless, and i should just let it go? Grand Canyon, what would you have me do, i know you are well aware of the situation from the beginning of thread.

The last time i spoke to her was yesterday at 4pm my time, she requested NO CONTACT. This has been a tough night, first New Years in 11 1/2 years without her. I am quite sad, and it took every ounce of my Being to Respect her, and not TEXT!!! 1 1/2 days of NC seems like at Eternity.

So many people, are just saying, Quit, throw in the Towel, Move on, shes left you. For me its not that easy.... I wish it were, i am just hoping for a flicker of light to come on in her head...that allows me a small window of opportunity to Prove my Love for her... I will Not Give up on her, til the last ounce of Fight is gone. Being apart, then NO CONTACT, My chances seem to keep shrinking. I dunno.. If i chase her, I will surely lose that way for sure, by not respecting her wishes.

The good things are, i have taken accoutability with my own actions and myself. I realize i made so many mistakes its a wonder she stayed around this long. I do believe everything happens for a reason. I have another Friend thats marriage is entering crisis mode, but both are willing to work on it. I have introduced them to MB, and they are both partaking after just one week. So even if i fail, due to my own behavior and actions in my Marraige. Something good always comes about, and right now, i am working my Butt off to become the very best Possible Husband I can. Thats what i look forward to every day, working on me, to save my marriage, and make me a better person.

If i don't, what little connection we have, that had a chance of Blossoming will Wilt away.

Tonight...I am in the Fight, but feeling Hopeless, even with a great Plan with Dr. Harley...

RR

I'm pretty sure that HHH is flagging what a lot of us have been telling you: these are very strong indicators of affairs.

What I am saying, is that you need to pull your head out of your butt, kick yourself out of this pity-party, and fully confirm to the nth degree that there is no affair.

Maybe you are thinking the wrong way about what an affair actually is.

Why do you avoid the prospect so profusely?

In all honesty, if you found out she was seeking the time and attention of another man, would it be over? Would you still want to recover? Is THAT why you keep denying it?

What the grand canyon is, is that she LIVES on the internet - which is open and rife with opportunity for an affair to develop.

LONG before social network sites blew up, affairs were blossoming over simple e-mail and chatrooms.

This "time to sort things out" crap, and the amount of time indicated, is probably the time needed for a face-to-face with an AP she has been interacting with online and/or otherwise.

She'll "sort it out" by getting a good boffing, and then comparing you and the OP.

The best support you have had that she isn't having an affair, came from a poster WHO HAD AN AFFAIR HERSELF YEARS AGO, AND HASN'T EVEN COME CLEAN WITH HER OWN HUSBAND.

Dude, wake up.

If you want to fight, KNOW what you are fighting.

@headheldhigh

I understand what your saying, I have no way at this point to run that down...an Affair. EA wouldnt surprise me right now, but for the most part, as i do know, She does not leave parents house, and has been gone very little since she left me.

I have no access to her phone or computer, so not sure what i should do. She has no car, but borrows parents on occassion.

This No Contact business at her request is tough. But apparently all the other programs besides MB suggest THE NO CONTACT BY ME. (i feel screwed) all i can do now is schedule another appt with Dr. Harley for Thurs this week, and see what he thinks about where we are at. It just blows my mind she can be at the new house with me, and still want out. Last time i saw her was on Tuesday Last week.

Looking for ideas...

Thanks

Man up! You know where she is, show up! With flowers!

Your every word and action must say; I WILL NOT LET THIS END THIS WAY, AND I WILL BE THE MAN YOU DREAM OF FROM THIS DAY FORWARD!

Arm yourself with the concepts here, and live them!

HeadHeldHigh,

I would love to show up with flowers, QUESTION, is that not a HUGE LB, when she has asked for NC from me for 1 to 2 weeks. So far just finishing up the 4th day today.

I need to show affection and build trust, but in the past, up until wed, all i did was discuss Relationship and MB. Next phase is work, kids, hobbies, and No Relationship Talk.

I know now from Dr. Harley the biggest challege is trust. For her, she has told no one really whats up.

I just dont want to do a Drive by, and have that fall into an LB, using Disrectful Judgements. She commented on teh LB questionaire and i QUOTE "He is a Master at all 4" and i have been working my butt off on getting MB education.

Thanks for your Insight
CherishHer

Could you have flowers delivered to her? Or leave a rose on her car seat? An affectionate gesture to show you're thinking of her.

If she contacts you upset, apologize and let her know you will wait until the time limit is up.


Hmmm I like the idea of a single rose, personally, romantic and simple- no pressure from dealing with a delivery man.

Thanks for the valuable input. I decided at this point, to respect her for her No Contact request. In the meantime i am scheduling another apptointment with Dr. Harley This week, and see what the next steps are.

Just finishing Day 5 No Contact, longest we have ever gone in 11 1/2 years without talking at least on the phone. Its tough, the will to go see her is strong. I just think if i do that, i LB with a Disrepectful Judgement.


Writing in my Journal off and on throught the day, every day, it helps, but its causing a lot of dreams about her at night. She has her ring off now, i dremed last night she had it on and was lying next to me. Emotions and Brain thoughts are wild, confusing, and crazy at times.

Thanks to everyone...your support is Amazing.

Cherish Her

You are in a dark crisis point in your life. Its a valley that can seem like a failure and scary. Dr Harley presents a path that helps us or assures us even in darkness growth can happen. Its like the path we were on had a tether and it was based on early learned behaviors no longer working for us. I know this may sound odd, but take these images/dreams and all the feelings you are feeling and take it all in. Try to notice everything or be very present. Its a great idea to write in a journal. Get a massage. Go exercise each day. Clear your mind. You may need to see a doctor if you get depressed or become overly anxious and sick.

Anyway, then pretty soon you might feel like you can see a new future and new ways to manage your relationship with your wife. You know you can't go back to participating in your relationship as before as it leads to a dead end and more darkness. At this point its hard to know if what folks here are saying to do is relevent or even realistic. It might also be your own view of the past that is restricting you. And you know your wifes viewpoint also might be restricting you and opening up other choices.

I found out we learn 50 % of our "patterns" in the first 8 years of life. Then we learn 45% more of our "patterns" by 18 years old. So that only leaves us 5% of our patterns to be learned the rest of our lives. Therefore we all have 8 year old in us often running our lives! I love that. But now we use the 5% we have to take in new very powerful stuff to override our 8 years old with Dr Harleys program. Ha.

Certainly you have made huge strides like so many of us who come here really annoyed with their 8 year old selves. (I hope you take this with the humor intended.) What a difference this program is making in my life. I seriously appreciated your encouragements and I am so sorry this past weekend was such a crush. I'm glad you enjoyed Fireproof Marriage, its a good visual affirmation. I'd watched it with my husband and at the time he was walled off, at least to me directly.

We did have a lovely New Years weekend with good conversation. I'm coming to terms with how the MB program causes my husbands status quo or familiar to be threatened and he then pulls back. He adds love bank deposits and quickly withdraws and shakes me up. Last night I threw out a concrete and I believe reasonable goal after reading a note from a member here (and after I've read this from Dr Harley several times here too) I suppose the whole New Years resolution thing gets to me.

Anyway, we both decided to enter the MB program to re-develop romantic love almost one year ago. But my husband resisted it overtly and covertly for several months. He would argue he's not resisting it these days but he's still passively resisting it. Its a control thing. Its keeping us stuck. We've got a couple of serious obstacles.

Here is a visual of these obstacles: We're on a river with a heavy current after a storm. My husband is trapped on a separate floatation device, a barge. So I have to float in circles near his "barge" while he tediously putters around. I can see from my view where he's stuck on this barge. I've suggested to him how he could get unstuck (and so have others) but that would require a new less familiar way or giving me a voice. Meanwhile my floating device is breaking down--- badly. I'm grabbing onto whatever I can to keep myself patiently floating around but adding to my device which seems frail in comparison to the barge. Others come on to the scene and only see whats going on at that moment and suggest I remain patient as my husband seems very professional and capable and he's deceptively helpful and charming to them. I get this feeling and fear for my own obliteration--- of my voice and my physical existance. I have a sense of urgency to get help and am not sure I should depend on my husband anymore. That's the result of independent behavior and indifference and the fears I developed. Still, I have come to understand this current we are in (MB) and the log jam is still breaking up and we'll soon be on our way.

Anyway, I have this goal that when we complete our construction later this month we surpass the 15 hours UA goal and up it to at least 25 hours as this is the amount of time to reach romantic love over a 5 to 8 weeks period. We have come along way in how we operate and I'd like to go to the next level. I'd like to be well on our way to reaching romantic love by the time we go on vacation in March. I'd like to eliminate the obstacles that don't make the best use of the time we do have together. I realize I'm only 50% of the equation and would need his cooperation and I asked for this. He agreed as this was our intention in the first place. I think its going to be like going on a diet. You can't eat the same way if your going to lose weight. Anyway, this is my new vision.

Graceful,
First off, Congrats on getting your H to engage in MB with you, and it sounds like your on a great path to Romance. Thank you for taking the time to share your story with me, and giving so much detail. It's inspiring to say the least. I am doing my best to hang in there based on the fact Dr. Harley says, Emotions are variables and can Change.

The biggest struggle, is knowing she is 7 blocks away, and i am so dialed in to my MB education, Just ordered the Home Study Course today, and am Determined to become the very best possible husband. She derserves that Love and Care. I can only hope at some point, she opens up the door just a little crack to let me start.

Right now, she has requested some time as you know, and asked for No Contact. Its impossible to make any kind of a Deposit with No Contact. Day 6 is coming to a close today, and I love the education i am getting, but am so Sad at my past behaviors. If i had only Known?

I continually hope each and every day, she will just give me a sliver of opportunity to show her. Eeryone around me is recognizing the Huge Changes, and they are consistent.

No angry outbursts for 7 weeks.
Only Cussed one time in 6 weeks.
And am so Cognicant of all my LBing behavior, that i am practicing it on everyone i talk to. I want these to become strong Long Term Habits and Behaviors.

Thanks again for sharing, that post, just allows me to keep hanging in there, and gives hope she will give me a Sliver of Chance.

By the way, Please keep working hard on your MB with H, you guys are going to be in a pattern of Loveful Bliss i have no doubt before your Vacation. Then Hit the Romantic stage and off you go. Best Wishes...

Warmest Regards,
Cherish Her

Hi Cheri,
I think you did the right thing respecting her wishes, showing her you can control yourself. You have to show her you can be different than before - that is what will help her start to build her trust over time. I would not go two weeks without contact. I don't see a problem with you making contact, either sending a card, flowers or something to show you're thinking of her. When you first dated what were some of the things you did that she enjoyed?

gg

Miss GG,
thanks for the support. Its not easy to control, but getting easier, and i know its about enforcing habitual behavior on MB principals.

She loves Flowers an in years gone by i would bring some home every couple of weeks, Hand Made Cards, Good Wine,she loves the little magazines like Star,Enquire <--- the junk ones for entertainment, Chocolate, Snack Candy and Art. She also loves the casino's for gambling nights, but that is 2 1/2 hours away and require overnight committment on her part.

I actually sent a text 2nite in regards to Cell Phone bills, and got a response, and we had a text conversation. I kept it all about Business, and was able to plug in Financial Accoutability and Stability, which is all part of MB for me. Got an intersting response, that alluded too, i cant do that, but if you pay the bill i will be grateful, if not i will Try to Understand. And as we work through everything well just wait and see what happens. (this was in regards to her keeping the account in her name for now, and not giving me the password to pay the bill online) It was like she was saying, perhaps we can work these things out, and then you can have it.


The way that came out, it was like either, i have been thinking about working things out with you and see what happens, or as we work things out and go our separte ways. It was almost like a PooP test, to see if i was going to use DISREPECTFUL JUDGEMENTS by telling her exactly why i needed the password, and if she wouldnt give it to me, she could pay the bill herself. That would have been my old behavior and it was nice at how easy it was.

Very confused after the Text Conversation. No more than 2 weeks, so now that i texted, am i in another 2 week holding pattern?

Thanx Cherish Her

@CherishHer -

Remember no relationship talk.

I think it might be okay to start romancing. But let's let others give their input.

You gave me a cool idea.

1. Flowers
2. Wine
3. Magazines
4. Chocolate
5. Snack Candy
6. Art
7. Casino

Now you text her "Pick a number between 1-5" this week. Whatever number she texts back you get for her.

After you've Plan Aed enough. Then add six and seven.

Clark,
now your awesome, brother that is a great Idea, and Once a week is enough you think for now? That would give me something too look forward too each week as well.

She actually saw me driving down the road early this morning, i didnt see her at all. I get a text 2 mins later.

Text says - Your up Early (From Wife)

all i responded with was (Good Morning, How do u know i am Up?)

Wife Text back -(You passed me going down ***** rd)

Next text from Wife - i didnt respond (Anyway, didnt mean to bother you, just surprised to see you up and at it this early)

Me Text- Sorry I missed you, been up this early every day. Hows work going and D1/D2 doing?

That was extenet of it, couple more chit chat exchanges, thats the first contact in 6 days with her in any way, shape or form. Trying to Respect the No Contact.

Clark, i love your idea, i want to put some more thought into it, and try to come up with a few ideas to implement with that.
1 or 2 times a week would be my Question...

Kindest Regards,
Cherish Her

Sounds like withdrawal. She texted to get her "fix."

She's insisting no contact from YOU, leaving you hurting and writhing, but - well, hey, if she feels like it, it's totally ok.

Or maybe she WANTS you to fight for contact.

Maybe if you don't respond the way she wants when she initiates contact, then she'll hold it against you.

Chin up, smile, live your life. Be pleasant when she breaks her own no contact rule, but don't be clingy or desperate. You did that well bud.

Head Held High,
thank you for the support and kind words. It felt right, and i am discussing nothing on Relationship.

Totally agree, if i fight for contact i think i LB Badly.

If i dont respond, she is definately going to hold it against me. Either way, makes for tough choices.

Thanks, definately keeping chin up tody, happy to be alive, and no way i am going down clingy or Desperate. Great input, btw, i did text her pick a # between 1 and 7, just dropped off a very small package, all fun, No Romantic anything in it, with a Card, congrats on her Work Achievement,she just hit a Career Milestone.

Warmest Regards,
Cherish Her

Today has been pretty cool, for the first time in years, over the last 2 weeks, have really refrained from putting expectations on anyone. I realize now how much i did it before, and the more i release this, the easier things get.

Wife has texted me a bunch today, i sent the last text hours ago, she didnt respond at all. At first i was aggravated, then realized i am putting expectations on her behavior rather than not worrying about it. As soon as i realized this, i was off to make dinner, had a great meal, relaxing now in front of the T.V. and studying the MB concepts and Program.

Days like today, make all the hard work so worth it. Thanks to MB Concepts , Dr. Harley and all the Posters, very much appreciated today. And i am exercising big big patience, which is really nice.

Cherish Her

There's a saying (I don't remember who said it) "you don't know better until you know better" or something to that effect.

Self awareness is a wonderful thing friend, it makes our life journey so much more interesting.

Gg

Awesome.

I know you read my little language breakdown on "expectations."

To be honest, I can't exactly say that it's by-the-book - but I really do believe that expectations lead us down a path to LB's.

Goals give us something to strive for in ourselves. Versus an unmet expectation, when we don't meet a goal, we can take that failure as a lesson, adjust, and further strive toward our goals.

How do we meet goals?

Update: Thursday.... ***** HELP HELP NOW WHAT *****

Wife texted me yesterday, we chatted off and on all day via text. She is avoiding any real In depth personal questions, like what did D1 decide to do, move,switch jobs, switch colleges. I am ok with this at this point, she intitated all.

I asked her out for tonight early yestready around 11am. She never replyied to the question, rather answers a lot of my questions with questions. At 10:30 she says we can Talk about when we get together 2morrow night. I am like OH... she is suppose to call me today.

DO you have any Ideas...?

Thanks
Cherish Her

Have a romantic, pleasant evening, and avoid relationship talk?

If she brings it up, state "I really do want to talk about this, but how about tonight we just enjoy each others company, and have a good time?"

Good luck Cherish. I think just be happy and upbeat when you two are together. Try and talk a lot about her and what interests her. Steer clear of seeking answers. She may not be ready to tell you anything positive. My H does not ask about me either but engages in good conversation if I talk about him, his interests, job, etc...The person who left is trying to separate emotionally and we are the ones trying to reconnect so make as much conversation about her as you can.

I see my H all the time even though we are separated because we have 2 kids. We get along great but find it blows up in my face if I ask him to try or to talk. Once together we are good and can play board games or go to a restaurant. So please don't make that mistake. People who leave need the control. It is part of why they left....boy, I wish I was better at doing what I say.

Again, good luck!

Lost, thank you so much for the input, i re-read yours and Hold Hands suggestions, am going to do my very best to apply both. Thanks for the input.

Cherish Her

Date Night Recapy *** Help Please ***

Had date night, dinner at her favorite restaurant was great, and we talked about her. I was able to show some physical affection without her pulling away. No Kissing or hand holding, but rubbed her legs all through dinner, and while driving.

Got roped into Relationship talk 2 hrs into our date, and ended up going back and forth.

She says and i Quote " There are days your all i think about and I Miss you terribly. I dont want to do counseling because i would give it 1000% and in 3 Months when we are back together, its going to fall right back into that trap, and 6 months or a year later, I am going to hate myself."
She Says, " You are giving me everything on a Silver Platter just like i have always wanted it. It's only because your focused on our Marriage, and when you Hyper Focus you do good. If we were together, you would stop as soon as we move back together"

I did take her out to go Underwear and Bra shopping as she has needed some for awhile. You told me i Feel Guilty letting you do this.

Kissed her a couple of times when she left, first 2 ok, she pulled away on the 3rd and i stopped. We had to make a deal no Relationship talk when she comes around.

I just schedule an Appt with DR. Harley for her Next Tuesday, and she is doing it only to Help me, and to Get some inforation for herself. She would only Committ to the First APPOINTMENT.

Not sure where i am at, I feel like she is on Fence and have my fingers crossed about Dr. Harley appointment. At this stage, i know she is talking to 2 men once or twice a week, that she said Make Her Feel Good.Thanks...Ideas or Thoughts Anyone?

Cherish Her

This is a great start, Cherish. Just get her in the door. Let the Harleys take it from there.

Cherish,
You did great.



Ugh - this is not good - she is vulnerable - of course other men are going to make her feel good. I hope she's honest with Harley and tells him she's talking to other men. At least she was honest and told you - this is good.

Your taking baby steps and getting results. I think speaking to Harley will be very good for your W.

Good going Cheris!

Gg

Random thought; did you thank her for her honesty on this? You want to encourage her openness with you so that it will keep flowing.

On a side note, She flat refuses to give me the password to the Phone Account, She claims her phone and bank acct are the only accounts left in good standing, and its important to her to keep them that way. I tried, but had to go ahead and pay the Cell Bill Today and it was really tough to do so. Espcially since i feel like i am financing her Joyful conversations with other men 4 times a week to meet her emotional needs. She did comment about me rubbing her leg while driving and at dinner, and said, thats all i ever wanted and now your doing it... URRGGGGGGGGG...Frustrating... and Emotional Roller Coaster DAY


Thanks, I have my fingers crossed, it was a weird night all the way around. I know she would love to come home, because of the Hell she is living in now..Camper, Mama's, No income... But she is Adamant nothing will change long term. But did say, i was serving up everything she wanted on a silver platter. Hoping Dr. Steve Harley can do something. She did say, she didnt want to do counseling for fear it would work and things would be the same... Another Day of Emotional Roller Coaster...


GG, i know this is not good, at least they are Very Long Distance via the phone, She is a Fly FIshing Junkie, and her Outdoor website is blowing up huge, she just got a call this morning from Outdoor Channel. I know these men are telling her exactly what she wants to hear, i Hope Dr. Harley Brings this Up. Any more thoughts? It feels like a call with Dr. Harley is my Last Shot....

Thanks, Yes, i did thank her, and sent a thank you text again this morning...Like i stated above, the door is there, but she is on the fence, and could fall off either way...I hope Dr. Harley is the Magic Pill for lack of a better word to at least get her looking in the right direction... She said, i would give a 1000% on this, but i think nothing will change, and i will be in the same boat a year from now.
*SIGH* i am Having a Very Tough Day Emotionally...

Let me get this right. Her cell phone bill is in HER name and YOU'RE paying the bill to keep HER in good standing??? What am I missing, here?

Marital,
I'm in agreement he should not be paying her bill since she is using it to carry conversations with other men.

Cherish,
You can respectfully tell her you are not going to support her having emotional affairs with other men on the phone. This is very disrespectful to you. She will have to find other means to pay her own phone bill. Do not agree to anything that support her choice to have emotional affairs.

Gg

Trickle-truth alert; who says these phone conversations with other men have began just since she left?



You now have an idea of what you have actually been up against, and the real question is for how long?

Continue Plan A - and GATHER EVIDENCE. Denying what a threat this is to your marriage DOES YOU NO SERVICE, NOR HER, NOR YOUR MARRIAGE.

@marital - My phone is also on that PHone Acct, and our 18 Year old daughters, which is her girl from First Marriage.



I could not agree more, but it was due today, and i already had paid it. I really felt like if i didnt pay it, She would avoid the Call with Dr. Harley on Tuesday. After that call with him, i should have a better understanding what i am up against. I am definately not paying it next month if nothing has changed.

My phone is on that Cell Bill, and i would have to dump that phone on her with 8 months left on contract get a new # and such. So i probably made a bad choice.

I quit giving her any money, and i know shes broke....

How do i continue Plan A under these circumstances.. I have no way to SNOOP, cell phone, email, or computer...??? Any ideas?

Do i confront her more about this Emotional Stuff with 2 other Men, her only comment was they make me feel good. Or do i let it go til after Dr. Harleys Appointment...and what do i do between now and then? Continue on PLAN A?

Thanks
CHERISH

Who is your carrier?

I know with AT&T I simply go into my account management online, and I can review all calls/texts for the month.

AT&T also has a "phonebook" feature, so that you can save names to the numbers.

You could simply set your phone to "private" and start calling unfamiliar numbers. Ask "I'm sorry, who's speaking?" "This is Frank." "Frank who?" "Frank Darabont." "I love your work on television, Mr. Darabont, but I have the wrong number."

Then you have a name to put to numbers.

You could also request a few months of records by calling the company directly.

Are you the actual account holder, or is she? Have either one of you used the online account management features? If not, then you, holding the necessary info, can set it up and start gathering!

If you've been paying the account have the name switched to you and have your wife get her own phone to pay.

As long as your W is getting her needs met by other men you have no chance. Tell her she is vulnerable and the time now to get involved with another man reduces any chance of her having a successful relationship and isn't that her goal - not to repeat (her perception) of mistakes of past. You have to start a serious Plan A. Let her talk to Harley first but go full swing afterwards.

Gg

Click on Nofity moderator and have them move your thread to "Surviving Affair" forum.

Gg

[/quote]

Who is your carrier?

I know with AT&T I simply go into my account management online, and I can review all calls/texts for the month.

SPRINT is the Carrier
AT&T also has a "phonebook" feature, so that you can save names to the numbers.

You could simply set your phone to "private" and start calling unfamiliar numbers. Ask "I'm sorry, who's speaking?" "This is Frank." "Frank who?" "Frank Darabont." "I love your work on television, Mr. Darabont, but I have the wrong number."

Then you have a name to put to numbers.

You could also request a few months of records by calling the company directly.

Are you the actual account holder, or is she? Have either one of you used the online account management features? If not, then you, holding the necessary info, can set it up and start gathering!

She is the Account holder, i tried everything i could to get the password from her, even as Hey I need to pay the Bill online, and she has her new adress on there...So now what..?
[/quote]




GG,
so your saying do nothing til After DR. Harley, It will be a stretch to do another call with him the following week. Then i am in the Dark to what happend on the Private Call between them til i schedule another call. IDEAS?

Let your W talk to Harley - in the mean time find out what you can do with phone.

please read this article - the example used in Harley's response is similar to what's happening with your wife.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

I know this is difficult for you to face. Do you understand now why it was so easy for her to tell you she was okay with you meeting OW? She wanted permission to pursue her emotional affairs with other men.

There's hope for your M - her talking to Harley is great start.

Gg

Plan A Carrot & Stick

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458276&page=1

@CherishHer -

Don't Panic!

For a BH you are way ahead of most BS.

You are in Plan A. To be most effective WS should be in home. This should be your priority.

Concerning Affair:

"I do not care for you, a married women, letting other men meet your emotional needs. This is what is called an emotional affair."

"I feel that you are using the phone to carry on your Affair, I will not be part of it. I'm trying to save our marriage. So I am going to get my own phone and the responsibility for paying for your affair phone is yours."

STICKS

Be Open and Honest about your feelings concerning her A. Do it without LB.

Do not let your W know how concerned you are with OM or else seh will take this further underground. PLEASE don't try to get her to reveal who OM is.

Listen to the others about the phone records. It is vital you get OMs name now.

Men - wife has a couple of men she is communicating with via phone.

@GG Thank you for the links, i have already read those numerous times, and just read them again thanks. I am at a loss here..All i can do is wait on Dr. Harley i am speculating.

@clarkkent- Clark, i would love to get my hands on the phone records, but have Zero Access, her name is on the Account, and she would not give up password no matter what i tried, is there another way? I am not in Panic Mode, but very Upset, and Emotionally Torn in every direction...and i paid the phone today without posting up, thinking Get her to Dr. Harley, and let Steve work his Magic...(I tried to get a 5 minute call with him yesterday and today to no avail)

@suzie - I have no idea how i can do that, she has locked down, phones and her computer...IDeas?

Am wondering, am i putting way to much Stock in the Call with DR. Harley, she said last night, i am scared to do any counseling because i know its going to work, and i dont want to live like we have been ever again. (this was the reason for not going to counseling, but Dr. Harley call, almost feels like to get me off her back about it) She is talking to No one for the most part about Moving Out, even her best friend is still in the Dark a Lot.

Thanks Cherish

cherished, has she set up the online account yet? If she hasn't, if you have the phone number, you may be able to set it up yourself to see the records. What is the phone company?

The phone company is Sprint... I tried to set it up, and it sent her a TEXT with the Password, which i shrugged off, and told her a few days ago, i was trying to pay the bill online. I have tried many things to get into that account..All to no avail..

I am all ears...

Thank You
Cherish

Have you tried hacking into her email/FB accounts?

At the time of my husband's EA I didn't know about this site - never did phone consult. I've read many times here from spouses (who did call) on how Harley knows the right words to say to spouses. Hopefully this will be the case with your wife. You're doing the right things. Continue Plan A, especially the stick part where you can. Do you ever get inside the camper where she's staying?

Were you ever dishonest in your M? Did you ever leave your wife for a period of time?

Gg

GG,
I cant get in the camper, and would not be comfortable at all trying that. I had lying issues from Childhood til 2005, where W and I worked on it together, and by 2008 i am 100% Honest all the Time.

I have never left or walked out on her in 11 1/2 years, I have been very selfish, missed all her emotional needs over the last 2 years, and Realize that now in a big way. I am studying like crazy for 3 hours a day right now. I also just ordered the MB Home study course.

Gave wife a copy of his needs her needs and 57 page Word Doc Print out of Dr. Harleys MB CONCEPTS last Friday. She told me last night she has not read any of it. ( I did have her sit down and read the First 10 Pages out loud to her last night of the MB concepts) She didnt comment, and was worn out at that point. (which is a typical excuse when she wants to quit engaging or listening) Its always been that way.


My Concern, is She said last night, Everything i ever wanted you are serving on a Silver Platter Right now. I dont buy it, and i would give 1000% if we were trying to save our marriage.I just think your going to get me back, then 6 months or a year from now its going to be the same, and i wont be able to forgive myself. She also said, when i see something i want, I Hyper Focus on it, and when accomplished move on, she thinks this will be no Different working on our Marriage.

Turning up my BIG DUMBO EARS to LISTEN...
Thanks
Cherish Her

Sounds like you have tried everything. Next thing would be PI. Yes, the Harleys are good at getting waywards on board, but it's still going to be difficult whilst she is involved in an A/s. In order to fight the A, you need to find out who what where...

Oh, I second the recommendation you move this to SAA.

Hang in there!

One more thing...Don't take what she says about the M too seriously. Sounds like fogbabble to me.

Try to avoid R/M talk and instead try to talk to her about anything that she would enjoy talking about, the family, movies, any of her interests, etc. Keep it light and chatty.

I'm glad you had a chance to at least be with your wife. In a sense, it was like a thermometor reading of your marriage. At least you are in motion and finding out you are still in the process of discovery. Still, it hurts a lot.

Your wife is hiding behind her words about you and your marriage. It can get to you. Its a long dark journey.

Our circumstances did not allow me to use technology like others here suggest either.

Cherish,
I agree with everyone else about staying away from relationship talk. I would never suggest you break into the camper. I was curious if you have visited her in the camper - does she let you? The reason I ask about honesty and leaving the marriage is because you beat yourself up about not being a good husband in not meeting her needs BUT you were honorable and respected her and the marriage. You did not choose to go outside the marriage and you did not choose to be deceitful and lie. You are here trying to work on yourself and the marriage. Your wife, on the other hand, has chosen to lie to you and is not being totally honest with you. If she's not living with you, what difference would it make her being honest with you? Unless she has something to hide. Stick to Plan A Carrot & Stick for now and stay away from relationship talk. Keep trying to snoop.

Gg

GG,
awesome, thank you so much. Emotions are such a weird thing, and i am struggling at times to keep them Grounded and my Eye on the Prize (Happy Blissful Marraige) Wife shows lots of IB that has never been around before, Driving me Crazy.

I havent talked to her since 2pm, i go dark all night, then i get a Warm and Fuzzy Text from her, i wait 15 minutes respond, with something EN like, and a question about her... (Nothing, or at least 1/2 hr to 3 hrs to respond, then she will be texting texting texting back and forth and ***POOFFF*** shes gone for 2 hrs... Sorry i shouldnt be whinning, that IB drives me crazy, cause she has never done that in all the time we been together..

However, i have decided to stay somewhat Dark between now and Tuesday til her Appt with Dr. Harley, and see where i am at after that. Being in the Dark is tough, but each day it gets a little easier for sure.

The support here has been amazing, i want to someday be a MB success story, and more importantly get so well versed to MB, that i can continue to help others around me at home, and on the Boards.

Thanks again, i am hanging in there Tough...Tuesday cant get here fast enough.. HA HA HA

Thanks again

Cherish Her

I wouldn't say avoid it completely, however.

A little bit of stick now and then - draw her back into the home if you can.

Just try to balance it, and don't ambush her.

Read up on some wayward speak, fogbabble, and the reverse fogbabble thread.

CH, time to face it, you ARE dealing with a WW, bud.

Just my opinion, but those of us that are still in the fight have a fresh perspective on our successes and failures.

Just as the things a WS will utter under the fog, as we progress, some of what we said, saw, and felt will fade with time and recovery.

That is, of course, if you believe that memory is reconstructed with current information, and not recorded like a tape. All I can say is; good luck finding a cassette.

Do not go dark. Gotta meet those needs of conversation and affection. Just not a freakin' million of them.

I have made a few attempts to draw her back into the home, each has been met with Huge Resistance, so for now i have backed off some and am continuing to focus on me, and trying to meet EN's though it is hard being apart. I am studying up on the Stick now. I know she has no cash and has mentioned it several times, the last money i gave her was 8 days ago. I am avoiding that completely.


I totally believe this philosophy, being patient is the hardest part, i see little flickers with her now and then, nothing hugely positive, but feels like little steps in the right direction. Then she will make a statement like, when i get a house and a car, and who knows when that will be, things will be a lot better. (Those Comments are the ones that i really struggle with)



The conversation needs are tough, she is caught up in a whole different world today than 3 short months ago.She has become somewhat of a celebrity in the Outdoor arena. Her Website is blowing up huge, she is getting onto the radio all over, and Now Outdoor Channel wants to Interview her (They are HUGE) and she is starting her own Radio Show. She is getting many of her EN's Met left and right by men and women. They all love her, and tell her daily what a Super Star and how wonderful she is. (Thats very tough to compete against) I can try to meet those affection needs, and have doing a good job with that as i get the chances. (Plus i slip little thoughtful, or well thought out cards/notes/gifts/ into her P.O. Box as a surprise.)

Just feeling a little lost, waiting on the Appt with Dr. Harley. Honestly, i am scared of the outcome, as i dont think she will read any of the material i gave her, and she would not committ past one appointment, because right now she is afraid it is going to work.

Thought i would share these with everyone, it has really let me keep my head in the game, and though my spouse is not here at this time, and may never come home, i am committed to myself and my Marriage. I have 4 copies of this up in my House now. Would love any feedback from anyone who has comments good or bad. Thanks again for all the support. I even thought about EMailing this too WIFE, not sure, any thoughts? or just keep taking Consistent Action and Forget about the Words.

I can only hope my wife comes home at some point,
MY TARGET DATE TO HAVE HER HOME IS MARCH 27th, 2011
OUR WEDDING ANNIVERSARY.


Cherish Her's Top 10 Commitments for 2011

1. Committed to a Happy Blissful Marriage with my Amazing Wife.

2. Committed to the Marriage Builders Concepts, and most importantly, Treating my Marriage and Spouse with Care, Protection, Honesty and Time�, this includes focusing on meeting all my Wife�s Emotional Needs Consistently. Learning how to give Affection in the way my spouse would like it.

3. Committed to my Family, making them the #1 Priority at all times. This means, Family comes first above and beyond all others, and all things.

4. Committed to Keeping our Daughter in the same High High School until she graduates no matter what. This means providing a warm loving home within that school district. This includes setting up a college plan for our youngest daughter, and making commitments for our oldest daughter to finish college. Helping them as much as we possibly can. (daughters are from Wifes First Marriage, i have been around since they were 4 and 7, and now they are almost 16 and 19..WOW)

5. Committed to building a very Family Oriented Nest within our home. A sanctuary where all who live here feel comfortable, safe and secure. Getting into a big enough home that lets our oldest Daughter move in and out as needed.

6. Committed to establishing Financial Stability and Accountability. This includes maintaining a budget that was established January 1, 2011. Modifying this budget as needed, and creating a savings plan. Both me and my wife should having Equal say, Equal access, and Equal responsibility to our finances and household. Establishing Financial stability within the household, including paying all bills on time, making savings deposits, and maintaining financial security for our family.

7. Committed to avoiding all Love Busters at all times. While working hard to consistently meet my wife�s emotional needs. Not being the cause of her Unhappiness in any way shape or form.

8. Committed to purchasing a Home within the Next 18 months, using the MB Poja Concept with my spouse to negotiate together on it, and coming to a Happy Agreement between us Both, that makes both of us Happy and Fulfilled.

9. Committed to living a Healthy Lifestyle free of as much stress as possible, while maintaining Regular Exercise, No Smoking, and eating healthy.

10. Committed studying the Marriage Builder Concepts on a Daily basis. This means at least a 30 minute daily commitment.

It's a good action plan. How are you going to be accountable if you don't do one of the actions?

My example: I'm trying to exercise more but I know myself and that I will slack off. I've asked a coworker everyday to ask me if I did my exercise machine routine. I'm not going to want to face my coworker as a failure. By knowing she is going to ask me, I'm going to be motivated to stick to the routine.

I don't think your wife is ready to see this list. She'll just say it proves your hyper-focused right now. Focus on having conversations with her, trying to be her best friend until you know what your dealing with and know the results of her conversation with Harley (all while continueing PLan A).

Gg

Thank you GG, i have enlisted a Friend as my outside coach and accountability person 5 weeks ago. Hes loyal, i respect him, and keeps me accountable.

Just found my Wifes Arcticle in a National Online VERY LARGE MAGAZINE... I am sick.. THE TITLE? Just published 2 days ago.

How to *** **** ***** it reads almost like an invite, as she dispels her tips on catching Females.
I went from Emotional high an hour ago, to just being Kicked right square in the GUT so hard, i am actually nautious right now. Ready to go throw up i feel so bad.

Cherish HER

Cherish- I know you're freakin' right now, but I would recommend you remove the title of the article. If she wrote it, and it is a national online fishing magazine, anyone can find it and find out who she is, and find out who you are.

You need to be careful to preserve your anonymity here.

There is one thing missing off your list that is important to your wife - if you return to old behavior, how are you going to stop yourself?

I agree with Vib on anonymity.

Don't read into it - you're only going to make yourself troubled over something you don't know for sure.

Click on notify moderator and have your thread moved to surviving affair forum.

You being in marketing - did you help her with her business?

Stay calm so you can think clearly.


Gg

Desperate for some Help and Input or Insight here....I am Exercising Kindness and Patience no matter what.

I had asked W to go to a very romantic christmas light tour yesterday, for the date to be tonight. We agreed that she would let me know by 3pm. I am been in the dumps for hours, at 2:59 i get a text. You around? So i called her.

She agreed to go tonight, her only comment, That seems awfully Romantic, and i am not sure how comfortable i am with that, but i will go.

I am excited as i can work on meeting her EN's some more, and avoiding LB's and Relationship talk. I was actually shocked and felt like i would be going by myself. Hence why i was so down and depressed again.

I am trying really hard to Exercise Patience and Kindness with everyone and everything daily. Had i just been more patient, i wouldnt have been worrying all afternoon.

UPDATE: 4:27pm Got a TEXT from Wife that SAID - Ok, this is why I'm worried about going tonight. It seems like a "DATE" is it?

I asked for permission to call her, she agreed, i called, and told her it was nothing more than her and i being able so spend some time together. (Not sure what else i could say here, or whats going on in her head, Would love some thoughts or INPUT) She has agreed to go, but would not give me a definate time, so i didnt push it, i told her i would eat and shower, and to call me. (Still wondering if she is going to back out at the very last minute...Now i am very very Nervous) What else could i have done here BETTER? I did ask her if there was something else she would like to do, she said not really. I may have pushed a little bit at the end, i think this UA time is very very important right now.

So 2nite we will see how this goes if she keeps the date, and she does have an appt with DR. Harley on Tuesday, and i have not brought the appt up at all. I know she got the email from Dr.H office. Exercising Patience and Kindness.
Cherish Her

I wouldn't bring up the magazine article.

@maritalbliss, good idea, figured i would let that arcticle slide. Also do you have any ideas as to what i should do, am i trying to get to Much UA time with her at twice a week right now?

Your thoughts, on my last post above..

At times i feel like i am so close to her coming around, then others, a mile away.

Thank you for your insight..

Cherish Her

My thoughts? No relationship talk. Don't bring up the magazine - don't even 'fish' about it, like "So, read any good magazine articles lately?" KWIM?

Your goal is to engage her in an enjoyable evening. You want her to leave you after the (non)date with a warm feeling toward you.

Don't get all sugary, though. She'll be looking for you to be over the top with your niceness and will mentally use it against you.

GG,
wow i had not even considered what to do if the old Behavior started to rear its head. (Perhaps, give her the ability to say its time to Get an Appt with steve, or dang it..i am at a loss for ideas. I will have to think on that one..)it never occured to me.

She always helped me in business, when she started this website dedicated to the outdoors, i knew it was going to be big, and wanted to give her space, and not take over like i normally would. Since its inception 3 months ago, i have done one thing right. I never took over, and only offered insight to it when she asked.

Trying to stay calm is so much easier said than done. I am trying to hard to Exercise Kindness and Patience with her, and with everyone around me.

If you have ideas that i could place on the Sheet in regards to behavioral patter change, i would love to hear them.

Thanks
Cherish Her

Does this also mean, no rubbing her leg, or giving her massage, or any kind of Physical affection to fill her LOVE BANK WITH? Affection was her #1 EN..

Thanks again, i feel like a School Boy all over again, in regards to whats acceptable and whats not.

I am not even sure she is going to follow through with it at this point... sounds like she would rather go buy a movie and watch it here...or something that does not feel Romantic in any way like a beautiful lights.

Thank you so much

Cherish Her

My wife and I agreed on a code word for her to say that would snap me out of my old rotten behavior - "Pscyho Steve". My name is not Steve.

Psycho Steve is the abusive OCD husband of one of my wifes best friends. I never ever want to be like him and don't want to be compared to him.

We started this last summer when I was still becoming aware of how I had been treating my wife for the last few years. She keeps it in reserve and let's it fly when I'm being an [censored]. It grabs my attention and then I go for a walk to think about my actions and clear my head. Then when I get back we discuss calmly.

It's a long road to recovery. Stay focused without being hyper focused. Keep busy and do stuff for you too. It's hard to stay away.

Take your cue from her on affectionate gestures.

Don't short-sell an evening at home with a movie All kinds of good things can come from that.

Monday update, trying weekend. W is suppose to have Appt with Dr. Harley, 2morrow, when she went to look at follow up email last night, she wants to cancel because of the cost, and shes broke. She claims i am broke, yet you can spend 200.00 on a measly 50 minute phone call. (Does not see the Value)

I have maintained calm voice, kindness and paitence for weeks, without anything negative and no AO for 8 weeks. I simply told her...

That i trust you to make the best decision for you, if you feel there is something in our marriage worth salvaging i would say keep appt, if your doing it out of Guilt or to appease me, then dont do it, ultimately the decision and choice is yours, and i trust you to make the right choice for you.

She told me over weekend, that her parents and family dislike me, and she has told them all weeks ago, its over and we are naver working it out. At this point, she does tell me, if we did get through things for some reason, they would respect her decision to work it out. But family and friends are really killing the Opportunity.

They are all reminding her to stay away from me for fear i will suck her right back in. So for now, she is sneaking around seeing me and stopping by, taking no calls where others can hear her, and deleting all my texts as they come in. (my observations)
Lastly, she is wanting to move into the house she always wanted this week, and bring D1 which is staying with her at her parents, and D2 whos in college who is living with Boy Friends Parents and family. She wants them both to move in with her and not me.

Today, i feel really beat down, tired, and worn out. I am getting very little EN's met for myself, and continue to give non stop with Kindness and Patience. Not a meeting goes by, that she does not point out shes broke and homeless (living in camper at parents)and no income. In addition, that i hear about every negative thing that ever happend in our Marriage, and how this or that wasnt right.

She has made no effort to read, his needs her needs, or any of the MB Concepts i printed out for her. She talks on occassion in 3rd person about "as we work through things" but never, hey, lets try, i don't want to give up. She is hinting at needing space again... and exercising Massive IB.

I feel at times i see her taking baby steps, but then days like today, i feel completely HOPELESS and Question my RESOLVE.
Not wearing her ring around me really hurts.

Today i am at a crossroads... She is living in a Camper,Her situation with family is Highly Negative about our marraige, She has D1 living inside parents house in a room with boxs, and D2 living with Boyfriend and his Family.(She beats herself up constantly about being Homeless and not taking care of D1 and D2. So the question is, do i leave her in this Contaminated enviorment, or Choice #2 Deal with the IB, and move her into a house with D1 and D2, where they are happy, and at least i can visit or come by, without her having to Sneak around familys back to see me. I feel like i have to make a Choice on Which is the Lesser of 2 Evils. Family and situation or IB in her own home.

Not expecting her to keep Dr. Harley appt at this point, and if she does, i think it will be all based on Guilt, very doubtful she will do a second appointment due to cost.

Thanks...
CHERISH HER

You are feeling part of the intended effect of the Plan A --> Plan B scenario.

While you are doing double time trying to rebuild your LB$ account with her, hers is being whittled away. This is why Plan A needs to have a definitive time line, so that you aren't completely empty should you move in to Plan B. If she won't participate, it still may be a good idea for you to make the call, just so you can set your length for your Plan A.

Some men can endure a Plan A for up to 6 months - this may not work well for you.

All that dredging up the past is fogbabble - she is having her needs met by other men and you are being weighed and measured by your flaws, while they are being weighed and measured with only their strengths.

It may not just be the family she is hiding her interaction with you from, but also from the other men.

However, if you are doing well enough that she is putting this work in, then keep it up. You want to be as pleasant and attractive as you can possibly muster before you pull the rug out (if you decide to follow the Plan A --> Plan B course of action).

Again, do some searching and reading on fogbabble, it will really help you be able to dismiss the nonsense she is spouting.

*edit*

Forgot to expand on the intended effect comment.

The "upshot" to the Plan A/Plan B scenario, is that if followed properly, if it fails, you will no longer be in love with her - you can have a pretty clean break when it's time to walk away.

Sherlock Holmes said (paraphrased), "When you know you have listed all possible solutions to a problem, and eliminate all but one, that one, NO MATTER HOW UNLIKELY, is your solution."

You had a marriage that was troubled, and you admit that you were not a superior supplier of your wife's EN's.
You say your wife is, and/or claims to be a verey private person.
Your wife evidently is not highly motivated by sexual touch (her bed attire, your sleeping position).
She leaves you and talks of divorce. (Leaves you WHY? If your communication was that faulty, you could just have easily ignored each other from the next room.)
She jealously guards her cell phone access and has become accustomed to quickly eliminating received texts. (Uhhh, do you really think it's only YOURS she got so protective about?)
You have done a great deal to show her that you will be there to supply the EN's she was missing from you all those years, but her reaction is to say, "I wish you a nice life, and hope you find somebody else." (She wasn't getting the EN's filled from you before, and declines to let you try to supply them now. So her needs are being filled by........?)
She tells you now that she is talking to other men who make her "feel good." You don't know who "they" are (and it's probably only a question of who "he" is.)
She is well familiar with e-based communication and interaction. Not that she'd have to be; my mother could have set up an alternate e-address in about 30 seconds.
Now she decides that speaking to the one person who might facilitate the repair of your marriage is "too expensive".

Move this thread (you've heard this before) to the "Surviving an Affair" board. Your wife is actively conducting an (at least) Emotional Affair.

Wifey (hereinafter referred to as "WW") had her Love Bank go empty - continued LB's, no refilling EN supply.
Her "privacy" manifested iteslf as not being able to address this with you.
It wasn't SF that she was missing, it was the softer aspects of a relationship, those that can be supplied without necessary proximity.
She left your home so as to reduce your opportunity to detect her affair - either through careless web access exposure, or continuous (or regularly scheduled) phone conversations/texts.
She is getting her EN's met. She doesn't need your participation at this time. She doesn't know how (or have the courage) to tell you that when she says she wants you to find a better person for yourself, what's left unsaid is "because I already have."
She prefers not to speak to anyone here because at this time she would rather continue getting her EN's supplied by AP, than take a risk, and attempt to have them filled by you.

I would urge you to consider this in your future dealings with your WW. She's not "lost", or "confused", or "unsure". She's emotional cheating on you and your marriage.

CherishHer,
I am doubtful helping your wife into the home of her dreams will help protect your marriage. IMHO it would help her IB and help her close you out. You likely read Dr Harleys chapter in HNHN on IB. Overtime she has closed you out of her various "rooms" and figuratively and literally created a separate house so she can live like a single and treat you like you do not exist. Think about what your marriage room looks like right now and what hers might look like at present. Think about what your/hers marriage rooms would look like if she were to move into this other home with more exclusive rein over her rooms? Would she find reason to integrate with you? I've found it helpful to view our marriage like a third person in terms of how to best take care of it and protect it? Your wife's foggy notions and museings are not about caring for you and protecting your marriage. And if you do go ahead and support her IB under her guise to help her love you again you will have less leverage if you have to move to plan B. Your not LB her you are protecting your marriage. It can be confusing.

Graceful,
i think i am getting it, Plan A is about making behavior changes and drawing the spouse back in with the Carrot. So heres what i am thinking, Why wouldnt I move into the House of her Dreams, Since it is my Connection, Give up my current house, and let that provide some more Carrot? ( I know this would be a Huge Kick in the GUT TO HER ) She made a comment about it a few days ago. Would that make her so angry she would never consider coming home? or does that make her really think about giving us and this a Try? D1 living with BF and his family, D2 living in Grand Parents House with Room full of Boxes, and W living in Camper. I am guessing since she talks all the time about being, Broke, No income, No car, and Homeless, each time she had those thoughts she would realize that coming Home is an Option, and solves all those challenges? She does have a Reluctant Appt with DR. Harley 2morrow....

Am i now looking at this the right way? Vs Helping her IB?

Thanks Cherish

Plan A is not about giving your spouse everything they ask for. Meet their needs, yes. Avoid love busters, yes. But do not do things that will harm the marriage.

Your overall message is that you love your spouse, you want to have a happy marriage with them. A marriage filled with romantic love. But you will not support behaviors by either of you that harm the marriage.

So you validate that you heard what the other person asked for. Then you calmly and respectfully apologize for not being able to enthusiastically support your spouse's IB.

And you really should head over the SAA where the experts at fighting fog speak hang out.

@CherishHer -

You do realize that your wife is a WS? That she is using OM to get her ENS met?

Can you admit this?

If you can't it will be really tough for you to save this, if near impossible.

You, sir, are a helpless doormat and need to wake up.

Who cares what her dreams are right now? She's wayward. Her dreams probably include nights in Paris with a 20-year-old John Travolta - you gonna give her that, too?

Cherish,
Valid points made here by everyone. Plan A is to get your wife to stop all contact with other men. Her emotional needs are being filled by other men, not you. She needs to commit to ending all contact with other men. Remember what I posted earlier, you are in the marriage fighting to make it the best marriage. Your wife has chosen to leave you and have contact other men. She's blaming you and using the excuse her family doesn't like you as ammunition to support her decisions. Don't buy into it. You shouldn't help her with the mess she's created until she commits to end all contact with other men and wants to work on marriage.

How old are your DDs and what do they think about you and what's happened?

Cherish,
You never told us how the date went on Sturday night

Gg,
thank you for your reply, i am getting a better understanding of Plan A. I decided to move into the House Myself Friday. Have not told W yet, she is going to be Mad as **** its her dream house, we almost bought it 4 ys ago.

She had her APPT with DR. Harley today, to be honest, he didnt sound very positive, or perhaps thats what i read into it. Once bit Twice Shy, she does not believe that the Belief system will change. Yet, she keeps drawing in a little bit each day. This house deal will proably push her over the top. D1 and D2 are hers from First Marriage, she has cut me off all contact for 5 weeks. She asked me again today about the House, and Said D1 desperately needs somewhere too live. So i am going to offer the new house as the solution, and see what happens.

I scheduled another appt with Dr. Harley next week, and will continue to work on myself. The Only comment W made about todays call was "It made me somewhat Sad.." whatever that means? No idea. At this point i still dont think she has told the D1 D2 anything, but she took her Ring off 3 weeks ago, and its pretty tough to miss 2.5 carats by Kids.

Thanks for reposting...PLAN A, i am starting to get it, and think i will toss the Gauntlet Down Friday, about Ceasing all contact and giving me access to Phone Acct, and then work on us. Otherwise, i cant continue to support the Adultry in our Marriage.

Dr. Harely did say, this is a very tough one, and my best choice is to continue to Work on My personal Belief System.



The date went good, we actually had a great time and ended up Road triping to a Casino, and
stayed in the Same Room together same bed. We did have a good time, and its the first time
we have ever gambled next too each other, little lown all night. I am dosing out tons of
Affection, she is receptive, but does not reciprocate, other than Kissing me on occassion
when i lean in some, i am still initiator. All in all date went well, but after todays call
with Dr. Harely, i have no idea where i am going to stand, and after i Announce that i am moving
into the House and She is welcome to come home, Who knows what, that might push her over the edge.

Thanks for all the support and Help.

Cherish Her

Moderators, i cant find the Moderator button, please move this thread to Surviving an Affair. Apparently thats where i belong. Could you please move this for me.
Thanks Cherish Her

You wrote you adore the daughters and I'm assuming the feeling is mutual. The 18 year old must have lived with you for the 11 years of M before going to college. What do the DDs think about separation or are you saying wife cut you off from contact with daughters - why would she do that? Your wife leaves you and now wants to live with you in house so her daughter has somewhere to live? Getting wife back into the home improves the chances of recovering your marriage. My fear for you is that your wife will not end EA with men she is in contact with which means she will become a cakeater - have a home with you and get her emotional needs met elsewhere. Continue Plan A, especially stick part.

Gg

GG,
at this point i am out of options, She talked to Dr.Harley today, she wants the house i told her take it. I insisted on The immediate No Contact with the EA-OM and complete transparencey. Dr. Harley stated i am in a very tough situation. So for me, if the No Contact becomes an issue, then she is free to go, just not with me or any of my support.

She did ask to get on a call with me next week and Dr. Harley so she could ask a couple of questions...Which shocked the **** out of me as you can imagine. Tonight for the first time, she is actually reading the MB concepts, i told her do 5 pages call it a night, but do it every night.

At this point, due to the uniqueness of the Situation, i made a judgement call. If i move into the house, we are for sure done 100%. So she can have it, i am about emotionally drained on Plan A, as my love bank is getting very very Low.

Will keep you updated...
Cherish Her

Shouldn't you be asking or suggesting and not telling her? Seems a bit controlling to me.

That is good news, I think, about her wanting to talk with Dr. H.

This is great - Harley did make a difference compared to where she was prior to the call. While she's in conflict-withdarawl she won't make deposits - you're going to hoave to have lots o f patience. How long do you think you can take Plan A? Harley says typically six month for men.

Gg

Wait?? Why should YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE??

I would NOT MOVE OUT!!!

The would be the worst mistake you can possibly do.

CherishHer,

Just thought I would check in and see if you are taking care of yourself through all of this. You've been working extremely hard at this for less than a month -- very, very commendable. You are an inspirations for men that need to do hard work on their relationship.

But are you coping well? Will you burn out? Dr Harley suggests in one of his articles that almost all his patients get an anti-axiety or anti-depressive prescription during marital realignment. This is going to be a long road. You have made a lot of progress since your Christmas post. Sounds as if your wife might have a glimmer of a chance to join you on the journey.

But are you prepared for burn out? Will you hit the wall some day? Consider asking Dr Harley if you should visit your physician or a good Psychiatrist that can explore the medical options.

Good luck ! Keep it up !

Powerbane, i agree, i have been working really hard at phrasing everything as a request. I thought back about it, i think i phrased more like, i would like you to cease all contact in your Emotional affair, it is hurting me deeply, and until your ready to do that, we have no chance. (something close too that) Thanks for the input...


GG, thank you so much. Dr. Harley did make a difference, she is considering ending EA and getting transparent. As for me, i probably have 3 more months left in me Via Plan A. I have been at it for over A month now, and was doing similar things prior to finding MB. The patience part is actually getting really easy. She did tell me last night, she puts her ring on once in awhile when no one is around, and misses wearing it. Last night was the first real Positive Feedback i have had as to where her mind is at. I am in a tough spot, but i believe the Road to Recovery for Me and Our Marriage continues to lie with me as i continue on Plan A. I was excited that she finally read a little bit of MB, Huge Step for her. At this time, i am getting exactly Zero of my EN'S met, and dumping large amounts into her Love Bank, While avoiding Love Busters. Thanks for the support.



Sapphire, She already moved into her parents 6 weeks ago. I am in a new house myself, and have an opportunity to move into a house she always wanted. The ice here is very very thin, and Dr.Harley talked to me about the Options. At this point, the only sensible one, is to let her have that House, me to stay where i am out, and get her out of the Negative Family enviorment. My only request, was i wanted to know if she was going to Continue her EA, or Cease it, so that i knew what i should do. The has made huge strides in the last week, she even told D1 that there was a strong Possibility that i would be Moving back in down the Road, and how did she feel about that, and she was good with it. She would never even consider having that discussion, if she was not thinking about it, that is a Glimmer of Hope that what i am doing is working. Its a very very Fine Line. Thanks for the input though, i appreciate it.



Stretch,
thank you so very much. With the MB Concepts, once you understand them, its like WOW, heres what the possiblity can be in my marriage, and that is Like Fuel for the Fire. Its all i ever wanted, but i was not a good husband, thank goodnes for the wake up call. We are seeing glimmers of hope, like i said above, She actually discussed with D1 who is 18 years old, the possiblity that i could be moving in with them in the future. (THATS A HUGE FLICKER FOR ME) I am working hard across all boards, Health, Work, MB Concepts, Its like i know i want to get a PHD in MB and my Marriage. It will take time, but well worth all the effort. I am not worried about burning out, as much as i am cocerned about my Love Bank Going compeltely Dry. She read MB stuff last night for the first time with no prompting, had a call with DR. Harley yesterday, and is considering a Joint call with Both of us in 2 weeks. I cant ask for any more than that, during this stage. She is like a very Spring Loaded Wild animal, that could Run like crazy. But she definately is liking what she is seeing. (Very scared that the old guy, who we have nick named the DICTATOR will show back up, i continue to remind her that guy is Dead) Thanks for the Wonderful Feedback and compliments, you made my day. Thank You

Cherish Her

Sorry CH!

I know that writing does not convey all of the emotion of the moment and it wasn't meant as a bash at you!

I'm still recovering as well - my wife almost walked out for some of the same reasons as yours did. I find myself slipping into bad habits sometimes.

Take care of yourself too, ok?

Good luck!!!

Powerbane,
no worries at all, i love having these forums for support, answers, and feedback, as well as accountability. Best thing i can say, your W almost walked out, Do everything in your power to meet EN's and avoid LBing at all costs. The MB principals are amazing, and i am starting to see some results after a Month, when she was Adament about Divorce.

I know what you mean about the Habits, i study for 2 hours every day off and on, to constantly be working on me. Hang in their my Friend, Cherish your wife, Give it all you can, Be her Lighthouse.

You might try this...
I have an affirmation card on me at all times, it says...
I have a High School Education in Marriage, i want a PHD in Meeting my
Wifes Needs, My Daughters Needs, and Our Marriage Needs...

And i love that phrase, i might have to borrow it..

Woke up 12/2009 and realized i was an Idiot for Neglecting my Wife... (ITS FABULOUS)

Have a fantastic week, if i can do anything at all please ask or let me know.

Regards,
Cherish Her

I was so hoping you would say something like this to your W - I'm glad you did.

Gg

Hello Fellow Friends,

Today has been tough, first time that i am feeling emotionally Exhausted, and actually questioned my decision to save my marriage. I know its the right choice, and MB has been priceless to me.

Its tough to realize when you get the wake up call, and understand you have neglected your Wife, childeren and family.

Wife asked me to try and get a specific house for her, she had a call with Dr. Harely yesterday. I chose to tell her i was going to move in there from my current home and she was welcome to come. (BLEW A FUSE is not even CLOSE) Keep in mind she is living in Camper, D1 is in House with Grand Parents, D2 is living with BF right now, but deserpately needs a place.

Well, after an emotional breakdown last night, we agreed she could take the house, and i would stay here, and she would CEASE EA. Today, the guilt hits her, and she calls and says you take the house, i will keep living homeless in the Camper.

I expressed to her, getting her and both our children into a home was #1 priorty for me. Well, i get everything finalized today, she was at my home, (Gave her Foot massage, and back massage, then snuggled on bed for 1 hour watching her favorite Movie) She says ok, its done. An hour later, i get a text, you take the house, i talked to my parents they dont want you helping me at all, they said they would.

So now, after all the emotional ups and downs for 2 days, i am Exhausted, i had a Chance to be her HERO, and parents ripped that away, so i see where we had an opportunity to really pick up some steam in our Marriage slip away almost instantly.

Just curious, how others deal with this, and am i Just going Crazy???? The Taker almost jumped out tonight, in the meantime i am working like Mad to Fill LB and Avoid LB as much as possible. Right now we are at about 7-10 hrs a week of UA, but i am getting NOTHING IN RETURN, ZERO DEPOSITS.

Thanks
CHERISH HER

Have you talked to her parents about this? Can you make them understand that you are trying to pull your family back together?

I would suggest that you go to them and sit down with them to explain your goal to recover your M and need their help. They are enabling the destruction of your M.

Would they be willing to listen to you in order to understand that they would not only be helping their D, but their grandchildren as well?

Maritalbliss,
at this point all they see is the old Me, The one W and I have now named the DICTATOR. They have no care for me whatsoever, and would prefer i fell off the face of the earth. We have had financial difficaulty the last 2 years, but everyone loved me 5 ys ago when we were making 300k a year. I fear if i went to them, They would slam the door in my face so fast, and they are no help... Do you have another idea or Plan? I am all ears Ma'am. Thank you for your response.


They would be very sad to see us work it out...and they feel i am the Toxic Spouse. If they knew how much time she had been spending with me lately, they would Freak Out.

Cherish Her

This would make me even more inclined to suggest you go to them, hat in hand and bowing a bit in humility, to ask them for their help.

You won't know about the door slam until you try. I suspect they will let you in the house and will listen to you.

I'm a girl.
Although I just took one of those 'for-fun' online quizzes yesterday that said I'm in touch with my 'masculine side,' whatever that means, LOL!

I didn't even think of this. I guess cause I'm a guy.

You take the house, if this is the one she wants. This would be another thing to entice her into coming back.

I bet you could talk her into helping you decorating it.

I'm a girl.
Although I just took one of those 'for-fun' online quizzes yesterday that said I'm in touch with my 'masculine side,' whatever that means, LOL! [/quote]
Thank you so much MaritalBliss, that is a good concept that i am stashing in My arsenal for 2morrow if needed i will pull it out. I have no issues with humility at this stage, it was humbling enough realizing the Dictator was in fact a Dictator who neglected his wife and Family.


Clark,
LOL, i was thinking the same thing, i wouldnt have thought of that cause i am a guy.
I believe worst case, if she doesnt take the house, i will, then Turn that thing into
her dream home. That should help and over time she can get past the fact i moved there.

If that happens, i will definately get her to come decorate it for sure, that i know
she would be inclined to do.

Thanks for your Input, been a long Emotional Day.

Cherish Her

@Cherish -

You mentioned something about your needs not being met. What are your top 5 ENs?

I know how it feels, I definitely have that T-shirt, but don't you think that you're in a better place than you were, say, two weeks ago? Keep plugging at it. It sounds as though you're seeing progress.


Both of you being involved with decorating would be a great opportunity for $LB deposits and UA. Don't pass that up!

Clark,
my top 5 ENs

Admiration
Sexual Fulfullment
Financial Security
Family Committment
Affection

I know, not your typical mans EN's, The hard part for me, as i am making deposits. I may tell Wife i really enjoyed hanging out with her massaging feet and watchig movie together..

No affirmation, just on to something she wants to Conversation about. I am really enjoying talking to her as of late, as she is talking so much more about herself than she ever has and feelings. (Now that i am a better Listener)

I know because of MB, we are making leaps and bounds. Its emotionally exhausting to Give so much, and keep getting my Love Bank Depleted.

Thank you
Cherish Her

Northwood,
thanks, yes we are in a completely different place than 2 weeks ago, i know we are making progress. I am doing my best to continue to stay on track and be her Light House.

I am going to try to get us together to decorate, and make it fun, with no challenges.

Any other ideas, i would appreciate it. Thank you for your input and insight.

Cherish Her

CH... YOU are the bargaining chip for her to end her A activity, not a house. NOT A HOUSE.

Update: Please give me some Input
Ok, wife has decided financially she cant take her dream house, which is perfect, now i can move in and make it what she always wanted, MORE CARROT.

She Continues to kiss me, lounge on my lap, just like she did tonight, then BAMMO. Out of the blue, she will say, you know if we work things out, but i am having a hard time being around you, i get mad at myself every time for breaking my own promise.

I promised myself, in fact i made a Committment, I would never ever go back to you...How am i suppose to break a Promise like that To myself. (I had no answer) She even asked me to ask Dr.Harley next week, and i replied, why dont you get on the call with me. (I will think about it, which implies i am not going to do it, because that would mean we are working things out.) I know in her heart, she would love to try, however friends, family...and her EA are not helping at all.

Please give me some insight how i can combat this...

She is constantly right the edge of the fence every day, should she try, not try, should she try, not try.

Is it normal, for a spouse to have her EN's Met, and enjoy it, act like your moving forward, then Bam, its like the
logical side takes over, and they start 2nd Guessing what they are doing, and start to withdraw. My wife, has severe issues with feeling gulity about all kinds of things, and is SO CONCERED about what HER FAMILY and FRIENDS will think, if we patch things up...I have no idea how to help her here, as they think i am the Bad Guy.
Thanks CHERISH HER

Dude, your answer should have been the one that you've been giving US for weeks now. I will now model it for you (ahem):

Dear, I fully understand why you would have promised yourself not to return to me, as I was. That "me" is dead. You'll never have occasion to meet, detect, see, or talk to that SOB again. Consider joining the new "me", the one I have promised to remain. We have the chance to build a wonderful new marriage and life together. I know you'll need time to believe in my new persona, so just commit to give us that time.

(This answer came so quickly to me, because it's what I did to facilitate our recovery after my WW's EA. I considered that marriage dead, and decided that the best candidate to start on another relationship with was the now fWW.)

I agree with NG, however, there may be other times that you take a differing approach (as you can't keep repeating the above every time she ways something like this).

You may act like:

"Yeah, you are very bad for breaking that promise to yourself...do you need me to punish you" (with an evil playful grin).

"Don't blame me...can I help it I'm irresistible????"

"It is a burden being cute and cuddly"

"That's how I roll, beeches be breaking all sort of promises to get with this"


The point is...be fun, flirty and CONFIDENT. She's conflicted about some stupid promise she made to herself while she is sitting in your lap. It's like the college/high school girl who isn't quite sure she wants to hook up with you. You don't use logic to seduce your wife...you use your male charm and confidence that attracted her to you in the first place.

That's PLAN A too.

Mr. Wondering

Remember Withdrawal, Conflict, Intimacy.


She is testing to see if this is the real deal.

BTW, if she is sitting in your lap, I would say that you are starting to become irresistible. She how meeting ENs work?

You could say, "I don't know. But we can work on it together. I do know that right now I want to tickle you."

Uhhh, CH is trying to tempt a skittish white-tail dear to eat from his hand, and you want him to suggest a nice venison dinner followed by watching Disney's Bambi ?

Baby steps first would be my suggestion. (And I would think that Plan A can be fully satisfied by a less risky approach than by channelling a sophomore-fraternity-wiseguy.)

ITA with Neverguessed. EXACTLY RIGHT. You wife wants consistency from you and needs to know it can be timebound at her choice.

It's great that she is now allowing you to meet some ENs but as long as she is getting some emotional needs elsewhere (her EA/s) then she will continue to waffle and it will be like banging your head against a brick wall trying to make real progress in your M.

Have you thought at all about hiring a PI? One of your top priorities here is finding out details of her A/s...

I would not try to discuss this any more with her until you have gotten the goods on what is going on & with who because she will just take it further underground.

To paraphrase MelodyLane:

"Dear, the bad thing about making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise."

Ok Gramps...I realize you are quite a bit older and don't understand infidelity on the same level as many of us here but this guys wife was very recently in an EA and may still be in one. Her on-going complaints about her husband are quite likely being blown out of proportion by her (and by this BH in order to save his marriage) in order to rationalize and justify such emotional affair. She pulls bh near and then pushes him away constantly and if he acts like some needy desperate tape recording about how he's changed and she just needs to give him a chance all the time...every time, then THAT TOO is just going to feed her rationalizations and justifications for leaving him and/or continuing/reigniting her emotional affair. It's wimpish.

At this point...his words mean very little. If her complaints are 90-100% legitimate...he can address them SOMETIMES by statements indicating his willingness to meet her needs...however it matters much more, to the extent she lets him, DEMONSTRATING his ability and willingness to meet her needs.

Thus...in the process of Plan A you have to realize there is a woman inside that wayward head that is acting and thinking like a teenage hormone driven women that wants to be seduced and wants a confident strong man to gather her up in his arms and tell her everything is going to be all right. Included in her list of emotional needs is a need for a strong, attractive and confident man. Mostly neglected wives simply want your undivided attention and conversation about anything (i.e.-except constant whining about the relationship and getting another chance). Plan A is about meeting that need so SOMETIMES you've got to be fun, confident and juvenile to attract back a wayward thinking wife. Which is my point...DEMONSTRATE meeting needs is MORE IMPORTANT THAN talking about it.

Just the way it is for us young guys.

Mr. W

Really? I'm glad (surprised, but glad) that evidently basing your actions on this construct works so well for you.

So your examples of adolescent posturing and verbal preening you would envision demonstrating meeting which of her needs, exactly? Because as I read CH's note, the need his wife wants most desperately to have met is to know that CH loves her, and is willing to make the changes he has admitted are necessary to improve their marriage. Acting like "the Fonz" from Happy Days (oh, that's right, that's before your time, Junior!) seems a strange approach.

But, CH is free to read all submissions and choose his path. How about it CH - would your wife likely be amenable to being grouped with all the "beeches" that want to "get wit you"?

Thank you So much Everyone

Wife took the house, and is really waffling between Going another round with US as she puts it and trying -vs- as she put it "Believeing in my new Persona" right now.

She keeps bouncing between, No Contact at all, as she says, part of her wants to keep her promise, and just SHOVE ME OUT THE DOOR. The other part of her, misses me, wants the new "ME" but refuses to Committ to anything at this point. Including giving me TIME. She has used the word No Contact about 8 times in the last 2 days.

I just got my Gut Feeling, that I am going to GET BOOTED as SOON AS SHE MOVES SUNDAY. We will only be 8 blocks away, we will have to share the Car, and I know, she is going to need my Financial Help.

Do i just CONTINUE PLAN A and forget about everything else all together...However being in her new house will allow me to probably Key Logger Computer. We she starts talking crazy like above, i just try to Reassure her, THAT THE OLD DICTATOR IS DEAD and LONG GONE, and he will never come back.

Shes having a very hard time believeing right now he wont re appear at some stage.

Thanks for any more advice...This is the worst i have felt emotionally in 3 weeks.Cherish Her

Well...one problem I foresee is..

IF she boots you
and you keylog her and discover she's continuing her affair

you'll be in a position where you'll NEED to be dictatorish by DEMANDING, again, she end contact with the OM.

So yes...you keep plan A'ing her and meeting the needs she'll allow you to meet but you can't appear to be a wimp either, especially if she's comparing you with someone else (that's what women in EA's do...they are comparison shopping and since they can't and won't decide TODAY which purchase (errr.man) they like or want more...they continue torturing you with complete indecision and gaslighting you about how it's ALL YOUR FAULT.

You'll get an added bonus of IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT if and when you attempt to interfere further with her affair and she'll throw all those promises you've made about changing and not being a dictator back in your face as you attempt to dictate that she give up OM.


I have no idea why NG has his lizard in a tizzie. I didn't say NG's advice was wrong...I SUPPLEMENTED it with things younger newly married guys like you need to do in Plan A to ATTRACT back these younger lost wayward wives. [I'm not Plan A'ing my wife anymore Chachi and I guess you are fortunate to have not experienced how truly cool, young and hip a full blown wayward spouse THINKS they are.]

Read up on Plan A. I have a do's and don'ts list I posted years ago on the "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread in the Notable Posts forum. It may be helpful. Unless I've missed something you don't appear to have young children of the marriage and the marriage is relatively short and drama filled. You are competing essentially to get back your wife's affections and get them away from any and all distractions such that you can implement a plan to restore or should I shall attain a marriage of extraordinary care and love.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

This point, along with the observation of what women need for protection from thier Husbands, without feeling suffocated, old, used up and worthless is why I am backing Mr W on his outlook.

I know it will be tough to both take control and at the same time show her that you respect her, but honestly, what do you have to do thats more important than that right now?

Plan A your butt off, and win back that flower, you know, the thing that attracted you to her in the first place? Her gentle nature? You are learning where you overstepped your boundaries, and imposed your rule on her. It does suck when you think you are doing it for thier protection doesn't it?

I haven't read the whole thread, so no detailed advice, but you are in good hands and the program works.

Believing the best for you both

And for good reason. You keep going completely flaccid. It's expected in an abusive cycle.

The dictator stomps, moans, berates, controls. When he is threatened, he goes flaccid, apologizes.

You let her walk on you with no demonstration that you can stand up for yourself without being a dictator, without being oppressive.

You shower her with gifts and attention, and shrink when she snubs you.

Yeah. It looks exactly like what it is; you are trying to win her back. She wonders where the dictator is, because this softy wooing her has only shown small glimpses of spine.

That is the real magic trick, CH. Maintaining your boundaries without resorting to LB's.

Yeah sounds like this is key for a lot of us guys who are used to being in control, whether we asked for it or not,(Damsel in distress response), or are put in the position to rule because we just can, and don't have any opposition that we are forced to respect.

Because she has in the past probably been wrong in some things, doesn't mean she was wrong in everything. This is what you are learning CH, along with valuing her opinion and input in every aspect of your lives together. I know you get this BTW.

Stay strong in your convictions that this can be worked out through MB and counselling with the good Dr.H. Someone told me long ago that in order to give orders, you first had to learn how to take them. That has been a gift to me in understanding how much I needed instruction and needed to trust authority, and understand why later if able to. Until I did it, the thing ordered to do might not make sense, but acting on my own would upset the whole applecart of authority and its travel down the ranks.

I think you can understand the authority of love outranks any dictatorship. Now you are getting your butt whipped. Welcome to the club. Time and patience, peace and understanding, you will get there.

HHH is right, not losing the things that keep you alright in the universe, when you think its your job to correct others, or your responsibility to, is a tough row to hoe. Work on your side of the fence right now and see when you are tempted to cross over and tend her garden. When she wants to partake in the same garden she will come back and work willingly with you, not for you. At least that is my hope for you also in your recovery. Just keep showing her the good produce and maybe she will partake.

(sorry for the metaphors)

Dude, you are a fixer, like so many other men. Women don't want to be fixed. I read your first post. You said you are ready to give the next 12 months to work on your marriage. What the hell does that mean? Your wife is not a problem that just needs to be fixed and put back on track. She is looking for a marriage, you are looking at her like she is a project. She is not your project. She wants to be part of you. She reaches out to you in the night and you reject her. I know about being hot at night. I have been married for 31 years. Because of that I hug my wife throughout the day or hold her hand at night.

She just wants to be the top of your list. Can you do that? Women will look over many shortcomings in their men. Because they are designed to be supportive. But they must be cherished. They must be made to feel that they are the hub of your world. She wants to know that you will sacrifice your own plans or goals in favor of your marriage or connection with her. She doesn't care if you take over the world. She wants a romance with you. It doesn't take much. Flowers, a poem or e-mail expressing your desire for her. Let me give you an example.

One day I e-mailed my wife at work, telling her how much I loved her, and how thankful I was for our years together. I said that her finger prints were all over the best days of my life. She came home crying. Women don't want to know what you do for them. They want to know that you can't live without them. It is not some wimpy, self depricating, weak needyness. Its where your focus is.

To lighten the situation, watch this clip from "The Coneheads"
Be patient. But listen to the wife's fears. And then listen to Beldar's response. Good luck.

Well said

OTH-

Women don't want to be fixed..... Your wife is not a problem that just needs to be fixed and put back on track...... She is not your project. She wants to be part of you. She reaches out to you in the night and you reject her....... She just wants to be the top of your list......Women will look over many shortcomings in their men...... But they must be cherished. They must be made to feel that they are the hub of your world. She wants to know that you will sacrifice your own plans or goals in favor of your marriage or connection with her. She doesn't care if you take over the world. She wants a romance with you. It doesn't take much......They want to know that you can't live without them...... Its where your focus is.


Brilliant!

Saturday UPDATE:

I am moving into the new house as we speak. It is Wifes Dream House and has been for Four Years. I decided to buy it. She cannot afford it. She was very sad and depressed last night as too be expected.

She continues to waffle back and forth between having NO CONTACT or Trying. In her mind she says, I made a PROMISE to myself to never return to you. ( I did tell her, that promise was to the Old Dictator, and invited her to join the new me)

How do i deal with WIFE, in regards to me moving into this home. Right now, she is so sad, she wants nothing to do with it, and now says, please do not invite me over, i am heartbroken, I will just re organize my Camper.She constantly brings up, she told her friends and more importantly her Parents, She would never return. She has always had issues with GUILT, its like if she could find a comfortable way to share with them it would be easier.

We did however have a 74 Text conversation last night, and she said her suggestiton "I will try to read the book you gave me and some of the material, this i can do safely..." She has the concepts and His Needs Her Needs Book. (It felt like mini headway) She is really battling with herself non stop about whether its ok to see me, talk to me, or be around me.

She continues to state, I feel like i am Falling back down the Rabbit Hole with you. (Meaning getting back together working things out)

Do you have ideas to help with the Parent Situation or? At this point i am going to work on the house very hard, to make it as presentable as possible along with myself. PLAN A.


Her heart is enjoying the time with me, its her mind that is telling her no way run. She lets me kiss and hold her every time we are together.
Thanks Cherish Her

I don't know if this means anything, but many people have asked me if I was a cop, military, or just a narc/snitch. I guess it the way I carried myself, was direct, and tended to take charge when I thought I needed to. Lol, I even installed something in a service-man capacity for a high official in the pentagon, and after a couple of hours of yakking, he told me I would have done well in the service. Something I missed out on because I wouldn't leave my preggoed 18 yr old wife at home, and my legs were messed up anyways. Then at 26 I was a diabetic, and they couldn't use me. Too Bad, the AF really wanted me at 18, I was off the charts technically.

There is a point I am getting too, and it has to do with personality, and the roles maybe we both tend to respect as men.

I have allways wanted to lead, help, guide, comfort, and protect people. Yes its a good thing to aspire to, but it is where it comes from that bothers me, and the failures in myself to be successful regaurdless of the actions I have taken.

I have allways been drawn to protect the innocent, another nice sentiment. It has also been what challanged me as what I believe a man should be in the areas of the "Damsel in Distress". When I have let the guilt get the best of me whenever a woman would weep and fall apart and she thought it was my fault she then owned me.

I want you to think about that a bit, if it applies to you. I know you said your wifes gentleness was what attracted you to her, me too with any woman I have ever loved. It was not thier looks, it was their heart. It was what made me want to protect them, or even save them from themselves if nessesary, but its not respect or trust, not really. That they have to earn, and they don't live by the same code, so we might not even see how far they have come, or what they have accomplished, unless we see it through thier eyes, and respect what thier eyes see.

This takes an active effort to know our place in a marriage to one of these strange creatures, and really listen. Its easy when us big strong men know what is important really, and we were put in charge right?, to disregaurd what they have to say as silly, emotional, and thier problem because of that.

But we are talking about the connection between two people of equal importance, to God. Check out how God uses women all through the bible to teach us deep truths, as men could not, didn't have to, listen. They were in charge.

I used to tell my kids, that Moms job was just as important, if not more, than mine. If she wasn't there to care for them, which I prized as a gift from God, all money made, had no value really. My family was my duty and honor to provide for, and I was lucky to have them. I praised my wife at every opportunity, and tried to stay sensitive to her needs, even the silly ones, and yes she was in need of saving from some nasty problems too.

Those I didn't negotiate well, or she would be alive today I believe. But in my case my ego dragged me into a place where I bit off more than I could chew, and I thought I could handle her addiction issues. But thats another story, and probablly doesn't apply to you.

But the base issue I am talking about, the need to protect and control situations, will not work in marriage for very long. I will use an example given once about how children view correction.

Suppose you are at a dinner party with your closest friends or colleeges<sp>, Now you spill a glass of wine on your shirt, and your wife says "You idiot!, now look what you've done!", and embarrasses you in front of all your peers. This example was to explain why children hide thier mistakes and the spiral down into deppresion it might cause, and the lonliness and frustration they might feel as they grow up.

But in the situations us in charge and agressive Husbands might find ourselves, steamrolling over our wifes, expecting them to submit to our authority, minimizing thier importance, will wear them down internally, and even the sweetest woman will run away, feeling abused and unloved.

I know you get this, and understand it also. You are here because you want to find out how you can change it, and recover your marriage, but do you have the patience to wait for her to find herself again, and encourage her in herself, whatever that might mean? You can be her rock, her place to come to for comfort, without being a rock that falls on her, crushing her gentle spirit and the flower you see her as.

Someone in the begining of this thread made a comment on how "Sweet does not mean un-manipulative" It also speaks of the fact that submissiveness does not mean weak. As a man who is in a position of authority, I know you submit to that authority. Do you feel that the rules are fair in its spirit, even if not allways in its application? Are they designed to protect the innocent or subjicate them?

My suggestion is submit to a higher authority of love, and all the tools are on this site, and if your like me at all, forgive yourself for trying to hard to think for her, and appreciate her every day. Even when she screws up, especially when she screws up. Maybe thats what is missing.

Keep posting and learning, Marrige is a marathon, not a race.

There is a beer commercial (Heineken) currently being aired that could conceptually guide you in the situation you want resolved in your favor. Guy at a wedding spots a hot chick sitting at a table with Granny. Approaches table with two beers, gets "Here comes another one", look from hot chick. Puts beers on table, holds out hand to GRANNY, and escorts her to dance floor, with hot chick gazing in appreciation at his thoughtfulness. (NO - I'm not suggesting you start dating your MIL! ) The moral to the ad is that some predators chase the prey; the successful predators get the prey to come willingly.

You should ignore the reflected assessment of you by your in-laws. That is NOT reality. What IS reality is the qualities and behaviors you have already recognized within yourself that you want to change.

CHANGE THEM.

Stop the rest of this "What to do, what to do?" nonsense. Make yourself the person that WW will want to be with. Do us all a favor - do something THIS WEEK that improves YOU in your WW's estimation. Tell us when you've completed that piece (however small) and then tell us that you're ready to take the next step.

Working on the house seems like a good start. What are you going to do tomorrow (I know it's Sunday. Who cares?) Do something that you KNOW would be something WW wants in her house.

How does the 'DICTATOR' express himself?

The reason I ask this is because, depersonalizing this aspect of your behavior may allow you not to work on changing this behavior.

I would also like to put the behaviors into MB framework.