I would ask you to reconsider this.

First of all, Dr Harley himself has stated numerously that whenever one spouse wants to move out or just doesn't want to work on the M anymore, you should always look for an affair.

This does not mean to ask the suspected WS if they are having an affair. Why not? Because waywards deny deny deny sometimes even when confronted with evidence. This is well documented.

Next, a LB$ is not "closed" to third parties. In fact, the romantic threshold is very low ~ one of the major MB principles is to constantly be protecting boundaries because Dr Harley emphasizes that affairs are so tempting and we are all wired to have them.

The only way to know if there is no affair is to snoop and then snoop some more. Check the cell phone records and email/FB accounts. If none of that pans out, GPS/VAR in the car or PI.

Sorry to be harsh, but it is ridiculous to rule an A out based on what your wife has told you.

click the following links to the right and print them out:
Dr. Harleys Basic Concepts
Love Busters
Emotional Needs Questionaire

Explain to her that you understand that you have been a horrible husband and you understand that you have invalidated her feelings and needs in the marriage. Let her know that you have found a program that has saved thousands of marriages that have resulted from neglect. Ask her to take a look at what you have printed out and ask her to fill out the questionaires when she has time.

Then let her know when she is done, you will read and listen without interrupting and without being judgemental and that all you want is to make sure you are being the best husband you can from here on out.

Hi Kilted,
I don't have a good feeling about him doing what you've suggested because his wife has already shot down the idea of pursuing advice to fix marriage. I'd rather he introduce MB when he has a better chance of the introduction being successful. She's in withdrawal from the M, has moved out and wants little contact with RR. Personally I think he's better off putting focus on him - for example - him saying to wife "this is what I learned about myself today from the MB principles." I bet she'd rather hear that than have him sell her on a marriage program which she already made clear she is against.


Gg

I have been accused of being overly-sensitive by men (usually boyfriend or husband) over the years. Usually that accusation occurred when I tried to express my hurt at an action the other person had taken. For example, when I was yelled at for some infraction or when I was belittled for some effort.

Many of the actions described by the OP are border-line abusive. Women are taught now that no one needs to endure abuse. But further, we are told by society that to be taken advantage of by abusive behavior is the fault of the female. So the person feels abused AND embarrassed as if it were their fault.

I think you can let your wife know that you have come to a realization of your faults, have found a program to address them, and will be working on it whether she comes back or not. Acknowledge and accept her right to doubts as to whether you can change.

Ok here is the Update...not sure where to go from here, or what to make of it.

Just spent 1 1/2 hours on the phone with my wife. Thank goodness for MB, i did exactly what i was told, i just listend as she shared her horror stories about me and us. Offered up little opionions, just practiced being a good listener. She brought up lots of things about us where i went wrong. Each instance she brought up, i validated and apologized for my horrible behavior. (It felt Good to get it off my chest and talk about it.)

At 1 hour, i shared with her i had found a Program MB , that would teach me how to be a great Husband, but more importantly how my behaviors destroyed our marriage, and eroded our love. I did not ask her to participate in any way, the timing is not right, remember she flat refuses to engage in MC.

Wife went so far to say, if the divorce papers were filed yesterday i am ok with that, in fact, i am ready to start my life today. Are you ready to let me go... I validated her feelings for my behavior, expressed how bad i felt for doing the things to her i had done, and told her i was going to work on myself over the next few months.

Wife is very sensitive and a giver, she said, if you found a woman 2morrow that you knew would make you happy, you know, i only want you to be happy, i would be ok with that, and would honestly be happy for you. ( She appears on the outside very disconnected at times...i think the confusion is causing this )

I expressed to her, that staying at her parents was the best thing for her right now, she needed time to heal, to find her personal Dignity <---she said she had lost it, and to really find herself. I told her i would make no more requests for MC or apply any pressure on her to do anything.

She made it very Clear she is not willing to put her life on hold for anything...not me, not us, not our marriage.

I then asked her if she would grant me one simple request or favor, i told her i was starting a program on monday called MB and at times, there would be questionaires and documents, and would she be willing to help me out by filling them out.

She said she would be happy to do it, if it would help me to help myself. She said, if that helps you become a better husband for the next woman in your life, one you can and should treat like a princess, i am happy to do that for you.
I told great thank you so much, and that there would proably be a few of them to fill out.

Now, heres my question, obviously in her mind, it is completely done with and over, she is ready to move on. Based on what i have read here on MB i have to do the work, and let my actions speak, no words. She did agree i could call on occassion, and when i suggested perhaps coffee, hockey game, or movie, down the road...she didnt say yes to that, and didnt say no.

So now, i am at this point and crossroads, what do i do? Which questionaire do i give her to fill out, or do i give her none of them? (I am totally lost as to which direction to go in) She Leaves out of town 2morrow with family til monday, so i have plenty of time for preparation. Question is, Now what do i do?

Am i chasing something that has no Possibilty of working out? I want to win her back, and show her, not tell her, how great it can be.

Hoping one of the Board Experts can steer me in the right direction. Up to this point, the boards have been priceless.

Thanks again MB Boards and all who are responding.

RR

This is fog-speak. She is not being a sensitive giver. Don't fall for this.

The best place for her is NOT at her parents' right now. Don't express this to her again. She does NOT need time to heal - she is not a victim. Her personal dignity? She OWNS her own dignity. She doesn't need to 'find' herself. She's RIGHT WHERE SHE IS.

This is your sensitive, giving wife? Think about that.

Marital Bliss,
thank you for pointing out direct information. I am looking at everything. now i need a plan...

Thanks
RR

Just saying...

I'm sorry that you find yourself having to be on MB, but good for you on seeking help on improving your marriage.
It seems to me, after reading all the replies that you're getting a better sense of what needs to be changed for the sake of your marriage and that you already had a sense of what you were doing wrong.

You are on the right path, I am sure of it. We must be strong and carry on even when the light of hope is very dim.

Good luck, my friend!
I look forward to keeping up with your posts.

HeadHeldHigh,
could you please elaborate on the Red Flag,
i know your meaning its some kind of a Red flag that
i should be aware of or watching for i am just not
sure what that Red Flag is?
Thanks for your input
RR

Mcat,
thank you for the words of Encouragement,
i know the path that i am choosing to save
my marriage right now is tough. However in
the end by bettering myself, i come out
a winner no matter what happens. I am looking
forward to the Journey with open Eyes and an
open heart.

Thanks again for your Words, i very much appreciate them.

Warmest Reagards,
RR

RR

The red flag means the writer thinks your wife's remarks are indicative she is having an affair.

I'm not convinced. I felt very much as your wife does and said similar things the first time I left and I was not having an A.

My H was controlling and verbally abusive, and I was hurt and confused by his behaviour. And I wanted out, pure and simple.

You need to keep doing the MB stuff, irregardless of whether your wife comes back. You can't have a healthy happy relationship with anyone without doing the work.

Keep us posted.

I don't think any of the posters here are necessarily "convinced" either ~ what we are saying is that it bears further investigation...

Skyblue,
thank you for your insight, at this point, you seem to be very aligned with how my wife is from personal experiece. I had a discussion with her yesterday as i posted up. Not sure what to make of it. I am having a hard time getting a definative answer from the boards here. Do i shut off all contact as some experts say...I.E, chasing, pursuing, contacting her, and wait for her to come to me as time permits or do i walk that thin line between sparing contact with her that i initiate and let her see the good in me as i work on myself. I know i am getting one shot at this...Nothing more, please advise?
Thanks
RR

SusieQ,
Thank you, i am not convinced, am doing a little snooping, i think its way more in line with SkyBlues previous situation. They are similar, the circumstances would have been almost Impossible to have an Affair, before she left, we worked from home together, and have one car. She was not a drinker/Partier or go out with the girls kind of Gal. I just feel it would have been almost Impossible, but am diggin a little. At this point i posted the last conversation with her above, and as i mentioned to SKy, i am just a loss for how i go about this...Over the last 3 weeks i have taken personal inventory, and am starting to work on myself and Journey, as far as interaction with my wife...now what?

Regards,
RR

because you need to know what you're dealing with. How do you know she's not on Facebook communicating to old flame? Just something to consider.

I'm in agreement with Sky's post. The good thing is your wife is open to working with you. Although she's claiming she's 100% emotionally detached, I don't buy it. If she was she wouldn't offer to do anything for you. She would shut you out. I believe Harley when he writes about one spouse bringing other out of withdrawal. In his five steps he writes you need to know your the lovebusters and then the top emotional needs. Ask her if she'll take the Lovebuster's questionnaire and if she'll spend some time with you to discuss it after she's filled it out. Then do the same with the Emotional Needs questionnaire but not in the same week.

I don't know if telling your W she needs to find herself was a good thing. The reality is she owns 50% of the marriage and although she's nice and sweet - she will most likely encounter the same problems with the next guy because instead of working at the M she would rather walk away - that is her solution. Eventualy you'll need to point this out to her. A call to Haley will help you what words to say to your wife.

Gg

GG,
Thank you, your posts are keeping me sane, and my head in the game. She already said she would fill out questionaires as i needed them, to help me help myself... She thinks she is doing me a favor, she does not think she is working on our marriage. I am speculating, if i can at least get her to fill out the love busters, thats a start to help me know how to deal with her.

Where i get confused, i have the book " THe Divorce Remedy" and Dr Phil "Relationship Rescue", the divorce remedy calls it Walking out syndrome, and says...The only chance i have to is shut off all communication and let her miss and perhaps come back too me. The author also claims that it is so sad for women who do this, because this is the time when the man will do cartwheels,and is open to becoming a Phenomenal Husband.

This seems to go against what Dr. Harley suggests with the information i can find here. So this is where i get Stymied. Do you have any thoughts or Input... I want to call Dr. Harley so bad, but my funds are serverly tight. I moved 2 weeks ago, and need to rebuild my cashflow. Thanks again, yours and Skyblues insight are helping tremendously...

Thanks Again for all Input..
Regards,
RR

In your wife's case I think no communication will be very bad. I think it will guarantee 100% emotional disconnect and once she reaches 100%, it will be that much harder to get her back. You need to be a presence in her life, especially since you guys are separated.

Gg

GG,
thank you for your quick response. I tend to agree with you completely. Its trying to sort out what steps to take in my plan right now to make this happen, or make the best effort possible..Confused where to start.

Regards,
RR

RR, there are a lot of programs and philosophies out there. I would suggest you disregard those programs and work a solid MB plan using the concepts found on this site. That is your best plan of attack. The owner of this website has saved thousands of marriages using these tools, and the couples have gone on to not just save their M, but to rebuild a much better one.