No, it doesn't, but if you'd like to see more of it, it never hurts to provide incentives.

She said she was feeling unvalued BEFORE she started looking for a babysitter.

Removing the babysitter is the right thing to do but what about the issue that was there before she hired her?

I think it very likely that her withdrawing and turning down his attempts to reconnect feels to him like a punishment. I don't remember reading where she said "wow, it must have been difficult for you to admit that. I bet you feared I would react harshly. Thank you for being brave and trusting in my love. You have reaffirmed my belief that I married the right guy." After she says something like that, I predict he would be more amendable to POJAing refraining from masturbation.


Yes, of course honesty requires a reward, or at least refraining from punishment. That is one of the central tenets of MB. Love is not unconditional. Trust must be earned. "Honesty is its own reward" is aspirational but not practical. If someone wants their spouse to be Radically Honest, even when the truth is likely to be hurtful to the listener, then I suggest the listener heartily reward the honesty. Like I said, feed the dog you want to win the fight. Many people find it unpleasant to deliver hurtful truths. There may be shame in admitting to having done a love buster. Anxiety about how the spouse will react. If the listener wants the speaker's experience, on balance, to be positive, then they should provide a reward that outweighs the shame / anxiety.

The truth is that lots of people in satisfying relationships have affairs, so I imagine that it is pretty likely that someone in a satisfying relationship might do this. There are two issues at play here; the first is constructing a satisfying relationship, which is important. But the other is taking precautions to avoid threats to the marriage.

Don't chase down the trail of thinking that she can get him to stop this behavior by better satisfying him. It is not her fault that he is doing this. It's a simple matter of independent behavior: what he is doing offends her, and if they are to have a satisfying relationship, then he will need to stop it for that reason, if for no other.

Speed reading sometimes destroys comprehension. I'll restate - you aren't dealing with the criminal, you are dealing with the victim - the approach should take it as such.

When it is communicated through either an angry outburst, selfish demand, or disrespectful judgment, it is most certainly a love buster...


Totally agree it's not rocket science. That statement is well weighted.

The fantasy is fodder to the masturbation, the masturbation is occurring because a need is not being met, these two things are symptoms of the underlying cause which is just as much a threat to the M as the symptoms.


Agreed.


Can you "agree" on this; he is looking outside his M to have a need met?

Can you "agree on this;


That the OP was not meeting her H's needs, and admits to it?

Can you "agree" that unmet emotional needs are a threat to marriage?

The "problem" you like to focus on is a symptom - no it does not excuse his actions just as much as it doesn't excuse an affair, but unmet needs - LIKELY ON BOTH SIDES - is what is going on.


You continue to take me out of context to bolster your opinion, and adding ad hominem to it isn't necessary or justified.

In the OP she states that they weren't having SF, and he began to masturbate. Is that justifiable in an MB frame? No. However, she knew he was masturbating, and "allowed" it because she felt she was unable to meet his need for SF.

None of this is a dismissal as the babysitter and his fantasies of her being a threat, however, what is stated is that there is a need being unmet.

Your solution of "fire the babysitter and slap his hand for touching himself" avoids and denies the problem of an unmet need. Yes, it addresses a threat. Yes, it addresses a problem, yet with the problem right in front of you, you are ignoring the problem of an unmet need... why? Is being "right" that important?

So, not disagreeing with ML's assessment, but adding to it, Jamie, I suggest you read here and the following articles.

What about it?

Just think how valued she would feel if her husband took this important step to protect their marriage!

its a feeling that is still standing in the way of a happy marriage for the both of them. Unless the assumption is that her feeling unvalued is what makes the two of them happy.

This is where your reasoning is going wrong. This is incorrect. Your statement here makes HER responsible for HIS deeds.

If she disapproves, the masturbation is occurring because he is not aware of or not respectful of his wife's feelings on the matter.

What you are saying is akin to saying that affairs happen because needs are not met. What do you believe the cause of affairs is?

I think they should definitely do that. But if the feeling existed before the babysitter, it doesn't seem that getting rid of the babysitter is the only thing needed.

Can you agree that many people face unmet emotional needs without engaging in Independent Behavior such as infidelity, dishonesty, or sexual activity that the mate is not enthusiastic about? Unmet emotional needs do not grab a man (or woman) and MAKE him have an affair or masturbate.

I've met a lot of people with the idea that if a woman keeps her husband satisfied he won't stray, but that idea is not Marriage Builders.

Ok, just for the sake of argument.

He apologizes profusely.
They get another babysitter. (BTW, is this a part-time or full time sitter?)
He promises never again to masturbate.
Does she perhaps tell him the truth about why she is unhappy to be a SAHM?
What should his reply be if she says I'm leaving because I miss my job and don't want to stay here with you anymore?

For OP, are you overseas because your husband is in the military?

**edit**

What ARE you talking about? No one told her to communicate my message via lovebuster, so I have no idea what this has to do with the price of tea in China..



Of course.


Maybe. Maybe not. The attraction to the babysitter may or may not be a result of unmet needs. Who is to say he wouldn't be attracted regardless? And why would we quibble over that? The bottom line is that her H should have his needs met and any person of the opposite sex to whom there is an attraction should be avoided.


You continue to take me out of context to bolster your opinion, and adding ad hominem to it isn't necessary or justified.[/quote]

But you don't support that contention so I can't respond. If someone takes your comments out of context you need to show HOW. An assertion made without suppport can be dismissed on the same basis.


So? That doesn't mean it is good for her marriage.


Agree his needs to be met.


I have not addressed the unmet need. Just because I have said to fire the babysitter and stop masturbating does not mean the unmet need is not being addressed. There is nothing wrong with you bringing that up. Just becasue I address one aspect of the situation does not mean that you CAN'T address that aspect on your own.

I have no idea what "being right" has to do with this discussion. If you want to make a point about an unmet need, simply make it. That is all you have to do. You don't have to get defensive. Really!

Probably not, but this is the immediate threat to the marriage. When the house is burning down, you put out the fire, you save quibbling over what color replacement carpet and drapes to get until after the fire is out.

Rush, have you read the Basic Concepts here? How do you feel about the Policy of Joint Agreement? What do you think about Independent Behavior?

No, that is what is being assumed by ignoring MB 101 information.

There is an unmet need, he isn't being O&H or addressing it, he "handles" the meeting of his need in a taker fashion through masturbation.


I'd prefer the OP's word on this, because she states it as a problem when she asked if he "thought of anybody else" and when he admitted it was the babysitter. She was aware of it before the revelation and was either; a) ok with it prior to the revelation, or b) not okay with it, and not being honest about it until after the revelation.

It's also assuming that he would rather masturbate than make love to his wife, who has stated she has had a problem making herself available to him.

Is it possible he would rather? Maybe. I doubt it's the case.


Do you want what I've read in SAA and the Surviving Infidelity articles, or should I submit to ad populum and regurgitate the general consensus. Sorry, had fish for FWW's birthday last night, no red herring for me today.

Markos, what should one do when you've tried the POJA and your spouse is absolutely not interested in meeting your needs?

Pick any emotional need, and tell me what the unsatisfied spouse should do if his/her spouse is not interested or objects to meeting those needs?

Dr Harley goes on about the balance between one's giver and one's taker, seems almost like you are advocating being a giver regardless if one's needs are being met or not. What should one do when you realize that your spouse is just not willing to meet your needs but only too willing to say that as part of the POJA that they do not see it your way and that asking for your way is an LB?

Rush, you are essentially asking this woman to change how she feels about the situation. This approach is doomed to failure. It is much, much easier for her husband to change his behavior than for her to change her feelings, and his behavior directly impacts her feelings. Her emotions protect her by letting her know when, perhaps, her husband has not GONE FAR ENOUGH.

Yes, it's important to encourage honesty. But she should not be required to accept his efforts if she does not feel that they go far enough.


Important warning.

She does need to make sure to not react with Love Busters. Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgments, and Selfish Demands are abusive no matter what the provocation.

But this does not mean that she has to feel good about the situation.

This will be my last warning about sticking to Marriage Builders concepts and then this thread will be locked! Once again, this forum is for the discussion of Marriage Builders concepts. If you are going to post to newcomers stick to that or do not post!