My wife and I were married for 12 years, together 6 before that. 2 kids, 6 and 2. We've had issues early in the marriage, infidelity on her part. We resolved and moved on. I kept my trust issues mostly under control with time. Recently, she's been texting guys she works with. She's in an education environment, well educated, and is around equals most of the day. 1 guy in particular, crossed the line. During a string of text messages, he replied, "You're a Milf." I held it in for a day or two, but finally blew my stack. I can't describe the insult I felt, both personally, and for my wife. She didn't seem to be offended by it, it was just said in playfulness.
I left for work feeling terrible, texted her to see if she could come home early so we could talk before the kids were home. Her reply stunned me, "Why, you want out?". I called her, and told her, No I don't want out.
We've been discussing things before bed, the only time we're alone from the kids. She says neither one of us is happy, something has to change. Granted, it's not always perfect, but i've got the perfect family. I asked if she really wants out, and her reply is "I don't know". She says she still loves me, but now it's more like a brother.
I love my wife, I think I always will, and want to work this out. It sounds like she won't tell me what her story is. Half of me doesn't want to hear it if it's divorce. The thought of not having my kids is torture to me.
She swears there is nothing going on with the guy she texts. I believe her on a physical level, but I really think there is something emotional going on. I started counseling last week, going again this week. I really want her to go with me, or alone with someone else, but she's resisting.
Can my marriage be saved?

I can't offer advice yet but brother, don't hit the panic button despite you being sick to your stomach man. I believe I'm the most emotional guy on this site, but I'll tell you what it helped nothing! Read, post, read, post. These Vets here might smack you around a lot but they know what the hell they are talking about ok?

Mr18708, I'm sorry you are here under these circumstances.

I am also sorry to say that your wife is having an affair. I do suspect it's physical, although at the very least it is emotional. (There is such a thing, and the hormone-driven "connection" and "high" your wife gets from that is what's eliciting her "I love you but I'm not in love with you" statements, actions, etc.)

Please click "notify" at the bottom of this post and ask the moderators to move your thread to the "Surviving an Affair" forum. You will get much more traffic and targeted help over there. (Weekends can be a bit slow across the boards, though, fyi.)

Should you want to fight for your marriage, you will learn how to do that most effectively. You will also have the tools at your disposal to RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE the RIGHT WAY this time, as, I'm sorry to say, you guys clearly didn't after her previous infidelity.

In the meantime, please spend some time reading the articles on this site. Start w/ the Basic Concepts and Dr. Harley's articles on infidelity.

Again, sorry you are here, but you're in the right place.

Oh, and the counseling is most likely just a waste of money. Many counselors are pro-individual, not pro-marriage, and there's some crazy high statistic (80%?) of traditional counseling failing in these circumstances.

Besides, with infidelity, the problem lies largely with your wayward wife. Sure, you have your side of the street to keep clean, but I'd say you're better off taking whatever money you're spending on counseling and funnel it towards MarriageBuilders books and, even better, counseling w/ the Harleys. They are pros at this.

The problem was that it actually WASN'T resolved. Your W's poor boundaries led to her infidelity...and upon discovery, it sounds as it was swept under the rug...and you were expected to blindly trust.

Dr Harley's plan of recovery after an affair requires Extraordinary Precautions be taken by the WS to prevent another affair from happening. Can you guess some of those would include? Yes, no opposite sex friendships, no texting/emailing male coworkers outside of work reasons.

Please read up on all of the basic concepts including the ones under "infidelity" because part of what it will take to save this M is for you two to follow the narrow path of recovery from affair. And no, you don't have "trust" issues that you need to keep "under control". You need to have access to her phone at all times and have the right to question her about any area of her life.

For now, QUIETLY snoop. Do you have access to her cell phone records, email, FB account? I would also recommend installing a keylogger...

She may be telling the truth about the physical part right now, but she is well on her way to a physical affair.

Please do some reading on this site. Have you read the Basic Concepts here? Do you understand them?

Start here: Basic Concepts Then go here: Emotional Needs

I would also suggest that you not tell your wife about this site right now. We have tools on here for killing affairs. You may need them, and you don't want her to know about them.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. We'll help you.

I would also suggest, as quick as you can, find childcare (you do it, don't ask her to) and ask her out to spend time with you.
Go listen to music, go to the movies, date like stuff.
You don't have to call them dates since she has semi-checked out of the romance but call them 'quality time together without the kids"

You have to spend time together without children to show her the possibilities of a strong connection to you.

When you mentioned that the only time to talk was before bed, this struck me as a number one approach to the crisis. She obviously spends a lot of quality time talking and whatever else with co worker guy.

Mr18708:
I am no expert. But you do know who it is (or so it appears). The comment you found, playful or not is inescapably way beyond any reasonable boundary. Tell you WW that you would like to try texting that phrase to any one of your WW's married girlfriends. Of course you will have an angry baseball wielding husband on your doorstep within minutes unless your WW's girlfriend and her husband are swingers.

Your wife is definitely capable of completely discounting your feelings right now (key words: "right now" - that can change, there is hope) and the fogbabble is on display for sure.

Read, read and listen here.
Of course if you know which man it is I would say you are ahead of this game and others will be better able to tell you where you can take this.

Please go see a doctor, get yourself some medical support for the illness you are feeling. In your situation any loving husband and father would.

Do Not succomb to an angry outburst. It sounds like you have avoided being provoked and you need to stay that way or you feed the problem with justification for your WW.

Is the Other Man (OM) married? Where does he live? Can you find out?

I found out an awful lot by putting a tape recorder in my WW's car hidden under the steering wheel....

Please set up a good support system for yourself to lean on. People here will help but a trusted MALE friend or family member who can keep their mouth shut would be a good idea.

Prayers for you.
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)

Thank you everyone. I can expand a bit more now.
I have zero suspicions of a PA. I know her schedule, when she picks up and drops off our daughter, when she arrives and leaves work. I've checked with people she works with, close personal friends, and she's there. No leaving early, or coming in late. I think she's well withing the bounds of something happening, which is why I want the EA stopped immediately.
How can I say she can't have male friends, or limit it to work contact? I would come off like a control freak.
I'm insecure. I'll say it straight out. I'm 38, probably 30lbs heavier than when we married, high school educated and wear jeans and boots to work every day. She's beautiful, in every sense of the word, masters level grad, and works with men and women who can be much younger, college grads, and sharp dressers. I'm threatened by that, especially when I've still got trust issues from years ago.
I know many of her male friends, and i'm fine with most of them. Married or single, they need to respect my wife, me, and my relation to my wife. Some haven't.
I want my wife. I'll do what I need to do in order to keep my family. Not sure if it's nation wide, or just my area, but guys take the shaft when it comes to custody and support. Too many of my friends see their kids every other weekend, you may as well put me in prison if that's what I'll be able to get.
I'm asking for your prayers, and support. I know the OM by her fb page, which I have the pw for. Working on getting work emails.
Thank you all.

To help yourself implement a couple of actions:
Is the person who sent the text to your wife married, if so track his wife down and let her know it is wholly unacceptable that he sends such a text to your wife, if he is single call him make it very clear he is insulting your wife and he keeps away from her, then call his head (assuming he is in education as well) and/or parents and let them know . These actions are not controlling they are you standing up for inappropriate insulting behaviour, this makes it clear that your are not accepting this and are monitoring the conversations. If your wife finds out all your are doing is protecting her dignity as a mother, a wife and a woman.

Thereafter you snoop , keep an eye out for a second phone, you have passed the first warning if they carry on and you evidence it the next step is full exposure.

Access the OM's Facebook page and record all his friends and family onto a secure document , copy the link as well as the names . If you evidence further untoward contact you will need this information.

No you would not look like a control freak, you would look like a man who is safeguarding his marriage. There is no way on God's green earth she should stay in touch with a man who calls her a milf. Please do not worry about how "you will look". You may feel insecure inside, but you know what's right and what's not. Trust your instincts. She will not respect you otherwise.

Xau, I was full hot about calling the OM from my wife's phone. I was talked out of it by my counselor and a few family friends. he's already displayed classless behavior, so any reaction would be a raise for him. As I said, I'm very close with her superior. What angle would I pursue through that? It's not against the law, as far as I know.
Could you explain what to do with his fb page? Im assuming if I were to fully expose this, it would go to those people as well, correct?
Thanks again.

You use your wifes Facebook account and access his name , once on his page you review his friends list, pick family , married friends , coworkers , click on their names and it should open their page, copy the web link and record this against their names, do not worry if their pages are locked down it is the http link you are after. If you are to expose it is the Facebook messaging system you will use, the friend links will enable you to do this.

Once you have copied a few practice with your logon name and access their pages.

What do you know about his guy? is he in education as well, why would you get advice not to call him, who knows him other than your wife? I am asking as you are assuming he will get a rise out of you calling him.

This is what I was alluding to, you must act fast on, delaying it will cause you to miss an opportunity, the old saying " strike while the iron is hot", take the pain now and rattle his cage.

This woman already proved that she cannot handle having male friends when she had her first affair. You should have told her at that time that male friends were not allowed. If you had, maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now. Regardless, you are her husband and her lack of boundaries puts you in danger of being hurt again. You have every right to request that she fix her boundary issues.

I went through the same thing you did (read my thread - Betrayed Again). My H had an affair years ago. At the time, I was not aware of MB, so we did not fix his boundary issues. As a result, he had another affair. This time, we have fixed his boundary issues, so I am protected going forward. I only wish I had found Marriage Builders the first time around. I would have saved myself a world of pain.

Listen to the vets here...they know how to fix your marriage.

Hi mr18708, I would assert that it shows no class to NOT stand up for your marriage. I would get ahold of this jerk and explain to him that his contact with your wife is inappropriate and unacceptable. Tell him the "friendship" is ended. If this loser is married , then contact his wife and tell her about this communication too. But don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs when your marriage is at risk. Your complacency shows a lack of caring.a man who cares about his marriage, stands up for it.

And we all know why you are "insecure." your wife has poor boundaries around men. She has no business having friends of the opposite sex. Good grief, she has already had 1 affair, did y'all learn nothing from that? Saying you are insecure in your marriage is like saying you feel "insecure" playing chicken after you have been hit once. Want to stop feeling insecure? Then stop playing chicken, it's real simple.

Saying MILF to my wife would have him fired in a heart beat. How about you grab her phone and take it straight to her boss. This EA is as good as dead if you do this. I would change your number and delete his. If you want a real counselor pay for the Harleys. Ditch your "affair enabling" counselor.

P.s. Your counselor is going to destroy your marriage if you let him. He is giving you terrible advice. And so are your friends.