Ah AGG, you have cracked the nucleus of my idea of a plan..

To explain, lets just say that many times lack of discipline, (myself included), leads to a place where we just look up and say, "What happened?", and we talk about how it was out of our control, but when we get honest, we must admit we had everything to do with it.

Of course, money is also a great equalizer, the things of this world, from the nesessities of life, to the frivolous, which can be purchased, also reflect your real values. If one member of a partership such as marriage causes total devestation and loss, and the other must make up for it, the bank doesn't care as an institution. It can't, if it is to retain objectivity in a world full of people making mistakes. It doesn't come easily, and its why you earn it as much or more than why, and how you use it that counts. Talk about "multiplying the loaves". " Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers" as Christ said.


So basically, creating a plan to get out of debt, and implementing it, will also mean we all must face ourselves, and our weak spots in finances. Its just money and it was invented and/or created to serve us. Having a surplus means very little exept that we don't have to worry about it. The real quality of life comes from within.

If while creating a plan, and implementing it, you discover problems with perception and personal weaknesses, you have the time to work them out, and with that willingness and humility you can learn so much together about yourselves and your ability to change and grow. The real value and the stewardship of money, and the value of the person or persons you are serving with it.

Because NG was involved with a real POS of a guy, and she was willing to work long hours to help her family is a good sign of her character, I can understand what she went through, as I am financially in quite a mess because of my own problems at home, and the mixing up of emotions and money and survival. Now she has a chance to work and live for what she wants in the future, and put those painful wastes of money and resources in the past.

I would encourage her to do just that, and to put them in the past where they belong, and help her to overcome any intenal struggles she might have in that also as she removes emotion from money. They really don't belong together, although we are forced to deal with finances in almost every aspect of a capitalistic society. Money is just paper and what it says it is, "Legal tender for debts both public, and private" emphasis on Private.

You and her POJA and enthusiastic agreement privately on the value of money and where it fits in your relationship is the challange now before you both, work on it and give it time, thats what love is right? Thats what we do with things we find important, we work on them, give our time, and even spend our money on them.

Great post SW.. ITA

Anyway, I still remember when you started posting here, opt. I haven't read this thread but I have seen little updates from you here and there and I am happy to hear that things are going well for you

Opt, you ask "Where am I going wrong?" but I don't see anything in your description of NGs financial woes that has anything to do with you...? My take on it is, just keep spending time getting to know her and monitor how she does.

This is a bit selfish of me to recommend, I admit, because it's the approach I'd want someone to take with me. While I didn't hit the point of bankruptcy, I came close when I couldn't pay the bills and my renters didn't pay rent for a couple months. Eviction aint always cheap. Note: I have renters because I can't afford to live in the house me and my ex bought but it's 150K upside down so I can't sell it either. It will take me about 3-4 years if I'm super-disciplined, but more like 4-5 years to pay that debt off, and that's with me currently living on about 1/3 of my salary. The rest goes towards debts. If I don't need to replace my 8-yr old car before then. If I keep my son in the not-so-great-but-free public schools. You get the picture.

It's gotten awkward with some guys I've dated because I barely have money for babysitting let alone money for eating out at the kinds of places they're accustomed to. So I never offer to treat, unless it's something I make at home or I can get free tickets for something.

But, on the other hand, you make an EXCELLENT point that at 45 one should be better with the budget. I am a fairly frugal person and anyone who goes shopping with me knows that my good looks do not come with premium price tag. Anyone who looks at my budget can see that I am really working toward this debt and am paying it off. I'm not being irresponsible. And I'm thinking only by lengthy observation will you know if her money habits are irresponsible or just circumstantial.

If I had a third hand, lol, I would mention that two of my friends are ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE with money/budgets/debts but their husbands absolutely love, adore, cherish them. They gripe about working hard to pay their bills but you can see a twinkle in their eye that whatever else those ladies are bringing to the table their men think it's worth it.

Yup what she said..

Well money is an issue because it's one of the leading causes of divorce. People view money differently, so it's important for the two of you to learn how you view money because it'll help you understand each other and how to deal with the money issue. Some view it as power, some as security, some as just a commodity, some it burns a hole in their pocket, others hang on to it as tightly as they can, you get the picture.
With any couple, it's good for them to discuss money, and to together set a budget and live within their means. There needs to be money set aside for a rainy day, a future planned for, and current bills paid on time. Both also need their own personal spending money and one person should not have complete control of the money. It is good that NG is not obsessed with money and can enjoy the simple things in life that don't cost much. It could be that some mistakes led to her situation but she's learned from them...at any rate, it's a good thing to discuss. If a person can't discuss money, they're almost sure to have problems later on down the road. Simply put, just because a person has had a bankruptcy in their past would not rule out having a relationship with them, but would be cause for discussion.

I just wanted to thank all of you for your words of encouragement and thoughtful commentary. I have plenty to think about and you folks have helped define some of the edges that were fuzzy for me in all of this with NG's financial situation.

We talked in some detail yesterday. She knew something was bothering me and told me later that she fully expected me to let her know it was all too much and that I couldn't go out with her anymore. She says she would have been deeply disappointed but would have understood; that everyone has things that are important to them. At heart, she continues to look at this relationship in a healthy way, I feel. She's enjoying me (as I do her) but understands we are dating and that comes with certain conditions (including possible temporariness).

I explained that it wasn't her financial situation per se that concerned me, but how it came to be and what steps she was taking to not re-live the experience. She has made a lot of forward steps and I really like how she admits to her failures, and takes responsibility for herself. To the point of being remorseful at times; I encourage her - we all make mistakes and it's what you do with them that counts.

I could go on but I really have to say I was overwhelmed with the support on this and I really appreciate all of your time and effort to help me out with this matter. Your guidance is as always well taken.

Suzie!! I want you to know that you helped guide me through one of the darkest times of my life. If there is ever any doubt of how you've affected the world in a positive way, please put it to rest. Not only am I personally in a better place due to your heartfelt (and direct...) input, but two young children have benefitted indirectly. Things could have been so much worse for them; the only way I can think of to thank you would be to attempt to help others as you have me. A tall order, but I will try.

opt

opt, that was so kind and I appreciate it so much You are definitely an asset to the forum and I am so glad you have stuck around to "pay it forward"!! Hoping it works out with NG ~ I smiled when I read about your story about the date and the pedicure LOL. Thanks again

I guess we've reached a new plateu. D9's dance recital is tonight and tomorrow night [hip-hop, so cute, lol]. I will attend tomorrow night with NG (tonight with S15). There will be MANY folks from the community of this small town present. I am very excited. I've never gotten into the PeytonPlace chit-chat, but I know we'll be noticed. I'm proud to be with NG. She was at the rehearsal with me and I introduced her to several friends. D9 is excited too, she loves NG.

Wxw will be there - not sure with whom (possibly her Dad). I don't anticipate any issues.

Any advice from my good friends here? Anything to watch out for? I know NG might be a little nervous, but I will reassure her.
opt

So NG has not met XW before? I'm a little surprised actually. I usually introduced to my XW anyone whom I was dating seriously enough to meet the kids on a regular basis - I think the X's deserve to know who comes in regular contact with the kids. This also avoids the first-time introduction in an awkward situation, like you are perhaps about to experience .

I think the best thing to do is when/if you come close to the XW, is to be proactive and come up to her and introduce NG. I would avoid showing NG off or being too affectionate with her around your XW, as to me that would appear a bit "in your face" and childish. Be sure to focus on NG so she does not feel left out, but also on your daughter since this is her event.

Don't know much about your XW, but unless she's a psycho, I wouldn't expect any issues .

AGG

Thanks AGG for the quick response. I was hoping to hear from you as I know you've had some experience in these areas. thanks for your view.

Actually NG and wxw have had their "hi how-do-you-do"s a couple of months ago. A chance meeting that worked out well, so that's done. Also, I still don't have NG around the kids all that much. Just once in a while at this point and for short periods - informal like.

Wxw is not physcho, lol. And I am not compelled to make her feel uncomfortable. I will make a point to be extra classy.

opt

That was a great idea AGG, about introducing significant other to ex prior to bringing around the kids. I would like to do that if the need should arise and would hope my ex would do the same courtesy.

Of course, I would have to find somebody first, but that's another issue!

Opt, you seem to be doing everything right. You are a class act my friend so I'm sure you will not have any issues at the event.

Yeah I don't know her either, but unless she is hell bent on looking innocent, or competitive, I wouldn't let it cramp my style or ruin you evening.

I like AGGs approaoch also, make the first move and introduce all around. Your DD will have a better time if you all seem able to handle things publicly well. At that age they are so self-conciuos.

Have a great time with NG and your kids

Thanks CP. NG's daughter was in the dance recitals several years ago, so she's really looking forward to reliving it a little. Last night was the first performance. An adorably excruciating 3 hours it was. ...I literally didn't even see wxw, so I have no worries.

The night will be significant mostly in that it will be the first time being out in public with NG in my home community on this scale. The significance will not be lost on NG; I believe it demonstrates another level of commitment.


Limb, I appreciate your sentiment and vote of confidence. I've certainly made mistakes. MB and this forum have helped me see things from another perspective so that "righting the course," not to mention anticipating what's ahead is much more possible.

opt

Sounds like everything went well, congrats .

AGG

Yup, thanks AGG. No problems at all. Didn't even see exww.
NG did her hair and makeup before the show. DS9 danced great and it was a really nice evening for her.

opt

You know, if you just remove one letter from your acronym, you'd have eww.

I wonder if that would start a trend...

Funny, Fred. I had a meeting wth my IC yesterday. She's coming along but I have a lot of work to do with her.

Anyway, she asked how me and exww were managing our "co-parenting" -- speaking of "eww."
-------------------------------------------------
Last ball I bought a small sailboat for my Daughter. (VERY small). Wexw wanted to go halves. I thought better of owning property with my STBXww at the time, so I bought it outright and ripped up the check she had given me. Today, having forgotten the accompanying phone conversation we had last fall, she asked if I wanted her help restoring the boat (it needs a lot of work). She felt some obligation since she was thinking it was half hers. I said "no thankyou, and by the way the boat is mine"
point: boy am I glad I did that. The thought of my Wexw lurking around here with paint brush in her hand..... no, I don't think so. D9 and I will be just fine stripping paint and making it pretty.


opt

Nicely done Opt. Sounds like a fun project for you guys.

Amazing, their mindsets! I'm glad you stuck to it!