The comments about attitude are huge. I was pushing and pulling recovery and H was along for the ride - not totally committed.

If you are a BS who had a FALSE RECOVERY
I am requesting you share about your FR

1. WHAT did you do that you wish you'd done differently?

2. WHAT clues did you miss (or ignore) that your WS was not ready for recovery?

3. WHAT lessons did you learn that you'd like to pay forward to others, so that they might avoid a FR?

Thanks!

Excellent question !

FR = affair never ended or restarted during recovery

I am the self proclaimed QUEEN of FR's.

What would I do differently? I would have done a better plan A in the beginning without the LB's and AO's AND I would have taken the advice given here repeatedly to go to a very dark plan B.

1. WHAT did you do that you wish you'd done differently?
see above post

2. WHAT clues did you miss (or ignore) that your WS was not ready for recovery?

hmmm, leaving earlier for work so he could call the OW. Coming home later so he could call the OW.
Believing him when he said he didn't "hear" the phone ring when I called when in fact he was talking to the OW.
Not realizing that the end of phone calls showing up on the bill meant he had a secret affair phone with OW.
Not picking up on him asking me exactly WHEN I was going to call home when I went to a weekend retreat with DD.
Not questioning WHY DS's stroller had been in the car.
Accepting blame for his anger instead of realizing it was deflection so I wouldn't question what he was doing.
Thinking him spending all his time in the bedroom instead of with the family was part of some "depression".

3. WHAT lessons did you learn that you'd like to pay forward to others, so that they might avoid a FR?

Listen to your gut.
Do a solid plan A and then go to a dark plan B!!!
Don't accept blame for the affair.
Stop believing the wayward babble.

1. Define your minimum requirements for recovery and a time frame.

I leapt on any possibility to recover with my ex on the barest efforts on his part - mostly talk.

I'll never forget the Sunday that we went to church together, and he stood up in church and asked for prayers for our marriage and recovery.

That same Sunday night, I caught him and the OW in bed together.

If I could do it over, I would INSIST that he have no contact with the OW before I even entertained the idea of recovering the marriage.

My memory gets a bit fuzzy as the years go by, which is a blessing since those days tended to be rather dark in retrospect. I may have mixed up some of the details.

I had at least two or three (or 4) false recoveries. Each time I let him back too soon. The first one was around the holidays. That 'recovery' lasted until mid to late January...or sooner.

I let him back too soon without safeguards in place. He didn't get boundaries. He still felt very entitled especially to privacy...etc. He moved into an apartment for 4 months after that. I exposed to OW husband. She told him she was 'in luv' with mine...and wanted a D. He didn't try to save the marriage but went directly to D. The D took a yr and a half or two. They had 3 kids as did we.

This was all pre-MB. I made lots of mistakes and did lots of stupid things. I confronted the other woman at her house and when she lied to my face I slapped her across hers...she could have had me arrested, I suppose. I used to obsessively drive by WH's apartment or her house always trying to catch them. Then I tried to 'move on'...made WH a bit jealous....he became quite a fence sitter. I had an A with my H at some point. He moved back home.

Their no contact may have lasted a few months.
I think they tried to cool it for her divorce but it wasn't real.
He started locking his truck, being late or unreachable on his cell phone...being distant, criticizing almost everything I did or didn't do...even stupid little things of no consequence.

His excuse...when I figured it out...was that he just wanted to call and see how she was doing. I found a secret affair cell phone (which she provided for him) hidden in his truck...I found it while he was napping or something and I had found the spare key to his truck. The phone was in a red leather case hidden behind the seat in the box where the jack was kept. Actually, there may have been other false recoveries because I recall another time seeing the secret cell phone on his truck seat once...as though he wanted to be found out ending another false recovery. So, I may have some of these details mixed up.

We seemed to be doing well for a few months....had a honeymoon time...but there was still something entitled...without remorse, about his attitude. Once it was clear that they were back on...he moved in with her after her D was final in March. The A lasted another month or two...REALITY had set in. He wanted to come home. He moved in with a friend for a couple of months. I wouldn't let him come right home that time. He needed to get counseling, we got some counseling together. That A was on and off for about 4 yrs.

I had read Love Must be Tough...and a shelf full of other book including HNHN... but thought we were ok enough not to push it on him. After all, people thought we were newlyweds we seemed to happy together. We even renewed our vows in church.

Again, it was great for a while. But, he still didn't understand boundaries and why he needed them. I still felt that I couldn't bring up uncomfortable subjects with him...the A.

So, he became acquainted with another needy married woman...this one was rather pretty, younger. They became friends....I don't know if anything happened between them then but I found him at her house and it took several minutes for him to come out....he was in the bathroom. He claimed they were just friends. I was outraged.

He didn't see her after that until she called our office about a yr and a half later and I gave him the message. I had never learned her name before. Her husband had just left her so another affair was on. That lasted 8 months. I didn't find out it was the same woman the he had said he was 'just friends' with...at first I thought it was the OW with whom he had the 4 yr affair.

All the same signs came back again...the distance, the disappearing, lame excuses for not being available by cell phone, the criticism etc. I busted him with his cell phone records again. Studid guy. He still claims they 'only' had sex 2 times and he couldn't perform the last time. Even though we've been through MB and he has agreed to RH...I still doubt that it was only 2x. I wish I would have insisted on a polygraph...he said he wouldn't take one. I also imagine he was unfaithful many more times in our marriage when thinking about his marital behavior on and off. At one point he said he did...because he could...he has always lied easily...unfortunately.

This time, I reacted without emotion, I was calm...felt like I was done...I had had it....he could leave, we'd separates all our stuff...lives and we'd D. Then we went to speak with our priest at the time and he recommended we speak with a rational emotive behavior therapist. We saw him several times. He read Surviving and affair and seemed to 'get it'.

My H decided he didn't want a D, he ended the A. A few months later we went to the MB weekend (March 2003) and did the follow up. He was completely different this time. Remorseful, repentant...did lots of the footwork/actions himself. He now understands what he needs to do to maintain he personal boundaries...that he can't have woman friends without me...and he can't have intimate personal conversation with women.

This last year he worked out of state for the better part of 6 months. Dr. Harley says we shouldn't be separated of even one night. We are separated lots more than that...well, so far so good....but I don't like the situation. It is the main way he is earning a living right now. H constantly reassures me of his boundaries and what he is doing. So far, so good...but time will tell how this works long term. It is hard to reconnect right away when he comes back after being gone so long.

Before MB, I tried following Love Must be Tough and followed advice in that book at different points...but not consistently enough. I wish I had MB sooner rather than later. I found MB website in Dec. '02 and read about plan A and plan B. A light went on. I found the forum when we were already starting recovery a few months later...maybe after our MB weekend. Unfortunately, through all the false recoveries I had a bad case of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome...and this whole subject has consumed way to much of my life. I can only hope that in the end I will be glad I chose to stay in this marriage. Our marriage is better than pre-A's but I sure wish I could have skipped this learning experience.

remorseful
repentant
boundaries
willing to walk the walk not TALK TALK TALK

Pep, I know your sending out a call for BS's so I hope you don't mind my intrusion.

N/C is a no brainer, but I negotiated my way around this during our FR. I told SMB it wasn't necessary, as I told her I had already taken care of that. I was not willing to be transparent on the N/C issue either.

In our FR, I also never told her 2 critical statements, "I was willing to do anything she asked", never agreed to, "do whatever it takes to recover our marriage".

During our FR, I also decided to keep my "Independent Behavior", "I needed my space". :RollieEyes:

During our FR, I also said I wanted to come home for the kids. In contrast to when I came home broken and repentant, I told SMB I wanted HER and then she knew I meant it.

You already know what I agreed to do when I asked SMB "to please have me back". SMB's list is in your notable posts thread. It would have been a mistake for SMB to take me back without my full agreement to her list of conditions.

SMB's requirements AFTER a FR



link

1. I wish I had made him wait longer to move back home. I made it way to easy. I wish I had made more of a song and dance about the NC Letter, about password access, and about spending time with me. I should have checked his cell phone after he told me he had deleted her number - he didnt, he just listed it under her middle name. Should have looked more carefully at his FB account, although there wasnt alot there it did show ongoing contact.

2. His going away to his house in Wellington all the time (at least once a week for 2-4 days each time). Crying and anger that i had assumed was withdrawl. His telling me he wasnt interested in my "12 step programme". lack of care and concern for my feelings. The way he would gleefully give me details fo the A - I realise now it wasnt for RH, it was to re-live it. Very thick, constant fogbabble. Refusal to get STD test.
Actions not words. His words were good, even Believer thought so

3. Get a NC letter before letting them move back home and take custody of it once it is written. Ditto for passwords, and a signed agreement for either cell phone swapping (which we did) or a new number. Shut down all social networking sites. become joined at the hip for at least the first few weeks even if you don't like each other very much. "personal space time" for the WS to be done at home, in a room without contact capability like cell, internet etc. STD test or no nookie.

Thats just my starting point really.

Exactly the same with Flick.
They were the first 2 messages he gave me in the 'real' one.

Another mistake was allowing him to breakup with OW in person. He said he met her at the mall...but still....totally unnecessary.

I should have been less patient.


That she was only "on board" with parts of recovery. I ignored this, thinking that she would come around to the rest of things. The reality is she was "on board" with none of it.


Ignore meaningless "progress." The big things matter, NC, O&H, time together, committing to recovery, and action. If those aren't happening, then the "good talk" last night, and the WS said "ILY", etc. are just a smoke screen.

I put too much faith in my then WW too early. I began to trust her when she did not yet deserve it.

When I became frustrated that she wasn't on board for any ACTIONs that would contribute to recovery, I would commit LB's and she would call OM for whatever reason, solace or vengence?

D-day for me was months before I found MB, and my biggest regret to this day is that I didn't EXPOSE. By the time I found out that exposure was a great tactic, I guessed it was SO late that it would be more of a revenge tactic than one to stop the A. Even after 2-3 false "recoveries", I did not expose and still have a great deal of regret.

I caved in to her threats of leaving if I did expose, and acted more out of fear than as a responsible, independent thinking adult.

Lack of exposure made FR much easier for her, as the only scrutiny she faced was from me. That's one of the many things I did wrong!

Think about your boundary before you allow WS back home
link to a definition of boundary

I've been thinking about this.
What I think happens is that the BS UNDERESTIMATES how difficult recovery is.

Recovery is difficult even when the WS is cooperative and ready !!!

BOUNDARIES, BOUNDARIES, BOUNDARIES.

Did I say that emphatically enough?

I wish I had had a better understanding of what boundaries WERE.

And I wish I had made a LIST of them.

Man, this is gonna be a long list.

~kept saying that he wanted to recover "his way", which only meant spending time together, mostly partying and having fun.

~like FF's H, spent most of his time in our room, being "depressed". I think our bed is permanenty indented where he planted his b*tt for 10 months, glued to his laptop.

~refused to take me on business trips to the OW's hometown (or any business trip, for that matter). HUGE RED FLAG, duh!!!

~freaked out whenever I checked his laptop.

~refused to use any of the MB concepts...POJA, PORH, giving up IBs, etc.

~hated, I mean REALLY HATED any questions about the A. [not that any FWS LIKES these questions, but it's sure different now.]

~moped around for months, blaming me because he had to give up some IBs...when it was really the A and stress he was putting himself under that was making him so miserable.

~was MAD when I threw the clothes away that I knew he wore to see OW. I could hardly touch them and he was MAD!

~flipped out when I wanted to get rid of triggers [Plan B is great for this, I CLEANED HOUSE in regards to the A. No mercy whatsoever.]

~continually blamed me for his A because I wouldn't support his IBs!!

~MAJOR mid-life crisis things...bought a Harley, more tattoos, re-pierced his ears. [He has toned this down majorly now.] He was the MLC Poster Boy and I'm not kidding.

Don't accept crumbs. I have raised the bar high and I continue to do so.

I have never backed down on any of my boundaries though it's been d*mn hard sometimes. He has pushed me almost to my breaking point but I held my ground because I KNOW this is our only hope.

We have had some knock-down, drag-out fights, with one of us leaving in the middle of the night; smashing the house up; a second, pseudo "Plan B" because boundaries were not respected. But I have held firm to my boundaries, both to protect myself and our M.

Don't be afraid of their anger. It is VERY TRUE that your M can survive their ANGER.

<Cont'd.>


Don't allow the WS to come home too early. I probably did this after Plan B and while it did not lead to a second FR (thank the good Lord), it made recovery harder.

I think this is a GOLDEN observation. Pep is absolutely right here.

Recovery is a b*tch, and there's no way to pretty that up. It is really, excruciatingly, painfully hard. It will bring you to your knees many times. Be prepared.

Or allow them to USE your anger against you by blameshifting. Waywards are expert at blameshifting and shifting topics during discussions. I call my H on that every single time now.

Another mistake:

I allowed FEAR to be my guide.

I also let my own guilt over what I had done previously (my A) that I gave a huge amount of latitude and credit where none were earned.

Another point -

If we divorce, that's it.

I will not remain your best friend, fix your car, do your errands, or serve Thanksgiving dinner to you and the OP singing happy songs around the holiday table even for the sake of the children. Once you're gone, you are out of my life entirely except on a "need to know" basis about the kids' schedule, and preferably that can be done by e-mail.

If you walk out, then you you need to get a place for kids to visit you, since you will not be hanging around this house evenings and weekends, pretending to yourself that hanging around on a Saturday afternoon and mowing the lawn makes up for the fact you looked for a replacement for your spouse and found one.

You are either with her or you are not. There is no in-between: no e-mails, calls, lunches, dinners, coffee or kiss and grope sessions in parks or hotels or anyplace else with the OP.

A BS incredibly, mind-boggling callous that they actually believe a BS will step aside gracefully, will screw him occasionally for old times sakes (or to the female OW, she will expect to keep getting money and having car or household repairs done by BS.

The reason to say this stuff early is that most have the idea of going underground and keeping both.

Exactly, Believer. I told my FWH exactly that...He would have loved to have kept me as a friend if we would have D'd and he was with OW...he whined, "We can still be friends, can't we?"
Absolutely NOT. I wasn't about to make that an option or easy for him at all.

This is a really good point...make it CLEAR that if you D you will have NOTHING to do with WS.

I vividly remember sitting in a restaurant having a few beers with (then) WH during our FR, and him kind of joking that if we didn't make it, we'd probably still hang out and have sex...because we always have fun together and SF has always been great...I was a little loopy so I remember laughing about it at the time, and not DISagreeing with him.

Then later on I thought "WTF is wrong with me?!?!? No way in HAYUL would I have anything to do with him if we don't make it!!!".

I didn't know he was still having an A, and if I'd known that, I would have slapped him for being so egotistical.

I wish I had known that waywards ask to come home before they are ready to come home.

I wish I had required more and not felt so afraid that doing so would "chase him away". The wayward wasn't worth keeping and needed chased away.

I wish I had looked for the heart change before I opened my heart back up. Sooooooo much damage was done during the FR....so so much....




I didn't ignore or miss the clues once he was home. I just didn't know what to do about it because I had already allowed him back home.

IB was much WORSE.

Hurtful words and actions from a man who had never said or done a hurtful thing to me pre-A.

Basically, he kept his entire wayward personality. I only saw a glimpse or two of my husband...the night I let him come home, and a few other times after that. Then...the alien completely consumed him.





The rules need to change after a FR.

I was "in it" the first two times around (2 FRs). I was willing to keep Plan Aing and help him through withdrawal . But those days were long gone when he approached me again about reconciliation.

It's time to up the bar and NOT LOWER IT when real hubby makes a brief appearance.

WAIT.

There's too much pain in a FR to risk it.

Vittoria,

Never let your guard down.

When I began to feel comfortable that I was NOT in FR was when I discovered D-Days #2, 3, & 4. You'd think I'd have learned, eh?

My major mistakes (too many minor ones to count):

1) Trying to be OW's friend, hoping she would NOT betray me with WH. (She thought it was OK to reconnect secretly b/c they quit having phone sex.)

2) Forgiving both WH and OW too soon, thinking it was the good Christian thing to do (and having no clue about just compensation).

3) Listening to the clueless MC who said "let God take care of convicting OW and confessing to her BH when she's ready."

4) Not seeking info on the internet.....read books instead but got no feedback except from our first MC who we fired after finding MB books and later this web site and subsequently these forums and eventually a tough MC who agrees with MB.

5) Not snooping.....I trusted and did not "trust, but verify"....and all my D-Days were accidental coincidences (or brought on by little angels).

ETA #6 (should have been #1) Thinking that WH could NOT have been cheating because he acted like the man of my dreams after D-Day #1.

We've come a long way but I still am aware that we could have another false recovery. I am, however, enjoying the present fruits of our labors, realizing that my perspective is very different from most on these forums. (I was looking for a way out of our M for decades, but when I finally got it, I changed my mind.)

If it happens, the next FR will become an immediate Plan D. If it happens tomorrow and I never marry again, I will treasure the memories of the past couple years. Now, I snoop, even though it's been nearly 3 years......Dr. Harley speaks about FR after 5-6 years of seemingly marital bliss. That convinced me that I'll never be able to let my guard down....ever.

But that's just me.

Fortunately, every poster here has the advantage of these forums so hopefully none will have to take my idiot route.

Ace

Well, as usual, I'm late to the party. Here's my take.


My husband DID say the words, "I'll do whatever it takes" while he was laying in the hospital bed. I BELIEVED him. I wish I hadn't. I wish I hadn't been so eager for recovery that I let him him come home with NO conditions. I wish I hadn't mistaken WH for DH.


I didn't understand there were clues to miss at the time. He was distant, did NOT want to talk about anything that had happened, wanted to go see her "for closure" and to tell her it was over. He was more concerned about himself and having a pity party than any pain that he had caused me. I was not allowed to get next to him. These were HUGE clues that I was ignorant about. I just thought he wasn't himself because he was healing from the accident.


Don't jump into recovery until you know in your knower that your spouse (the one who cares/cared for you) is back. Make it PLAIN that you don't need to be married to him/her, that life WILL go on without him/her.

Understand that you are worth having a spouse who loves and cares for you, day in and day out.

Take it very very slow. Do not trust anything right away and then only trust but verify.

D Day 1 2003:

My H's affair was first discovered by me after about six weeks of its starting in 2003. I found condoms in a drawer. They had been bought abroad; there was no English writing on the box. We live in London. My H travelled to Europe roughly twice a month for one or two nights at a time.

We had a horrible marriage at the time, but after much fighting and mutual blame we admitted that we did not want to divorce. We gave our marriage another try, and the results seemed spectacular for most of the first year of false recovery.

I thought that our near break-up had shaken H to the core, and that, since he wanted to stay with me, he would stop his affair - of course! It never occurred to me that he would not. I could see that he had chosen an affair when our marriage was terrible and our sex life non-existent. I took responsibility for the state of the marriage and was thankful to have been forgiven my errors. I never imagined that a human being with a mind and a conscience could misuse another human being's love without a second's thought, as he went on to do for two years.

During the second year, from my point of view things went downhill rapidly. My H seemed increasingly angry and bored with me, He left for work early and came in late, except for one night per week when he made the effort to come home early and was horrible to me and the children.

My BIG mistake after D Day 1 was not to ask who OW was, inform her H and insist on a job change as a recovery condition.

I worked out that OW lived abroad and therefore must be connected through his job. He laughed in my face when I suggested that he was in love and would leave us for her they had only been together 3 or 4 times. He made it clear that affair was a convenient arrangement for sex and a bit of attention, on both their parts; she was married too and like him, had no intention of leaving. That was all I found out about the affair, and since I reasoned that my problem was with him, not her, I did not feel the need to know more.

I think that a lot of people would have made the same mistake as I did after the first D Day, which was not to seek changes to H's job (or to move house if OP lives locally). As Dr Harley says, we must find out the circumstances of the affair and change our living or working arrangements to make a restarting of the affair very difficult. Many people would also not have exposed to either OPS or the employers. I think many people would have done what I did and trust that, since my H was very keen to stay with me and the children he would not risk our happiness again.

We are wrong, but rather normal. However, I cannot get over how silly I was after that.

D Day 2:

Exactly 2 years after D Day 1 2003 I walked in on H texting on a mobile phone that he had been lent by his company on strict instruction that there was to be no personal use, so he said. Although he had it at home every evening, it had been lent only so that he could be reached when he was abroad. The very second I saw him look round nervously and try to hide the phone I knew that he was back in the affair. For a few days I thought that it must have restarted when we became unhappy again. It was only on a drive to the supermarket about 4 days later that I worked out that he had probably never ended it. I then worked out that he had been really happy during our first year because he had two women adoring him and having sex with him.

What I did correctly after D Day 2 2005 was to not say a word about what I had seen, and to take the phone when he was asleep. I confirmed that the affair was indeed active. Because we were on holiday at the time and I did not want to upset the children, I said nothing for several days. My being unable to confront him allowed me to keep spying and, as luck would have it, I discovered OW's full name when she sent a text message over the internet rather than from her phone. Her phone messages had only her phone number on them, but her internet messages had her name.

Also fortunate for me: Because I could not find a moment to talk to him without the children around once we got home (it was the school holidays and they stayed up later than her did; he would come in, eat, grump at us all and go to bed early, from where he texted OW before turning out the light), I was able to keep spying. I Googled her name and discovered within 5 minutes where she lived, that she was married, had children and was connected to my H through his job. She was a volunteer on a committee that he dealt with. I found the committee minutes online and these had her name and address.

I made a serious mistake when I revealed what I knew to my H, six days after the discovery. H wrong-footed me and said that he did not want to leave; I had been expecting the opposite. I had read the text messages talking of how he loved her, wanted to make love only to her, and was "lacking in commitment here" and wanting to be with her all the time. I did not reveal what I had read, but when he asked me how I had found out I blurted out "I saw you texting!"

He thereafter left the phone at work and I was cut off from information. I only saw it thereafter about every six weeks, when he was forced to bring it home after a trip abroad. He was stupid enough to think that I would never spy on him, so he left his text messages backed up on the phone. It took weeks at a time, but I was able to see that the affair was continuing.

(H was really indignant when I confessed my spying many months later. He said that that I had invaded his privacy.)

I wish that I had not said a word about the phone. I was lucky enough to have gathered a lot of useful information, but I should have kept silent about the phone.

After D Day 2 I had so much more information about the affair than after D Day 1. However, my ignorance about how to use my knowledge allowed him to continue seeing OW yet again, for over a year more.

If I had gone straight to her husband with my proof of the affair it would have ended that day. Her H is a street fighter where his wife is concerned and after he had rearranged my H's face he would have reported him to his employers.

If I myself had reported the affair to my H's employers they would have taken him off that job, if not sacked him outright. He was in charge of the budget for her committee, as well as others; there was a clear conflict of interest. He was also using the office landline and mobile phone to make international calls to her that sometimes lasted two hours. This had been going on for two years; he must owe his company many thousand of pounds.

If I had had MB to guide me, I would have accepted that he might be sacked, and exposed anyway. I earn more than enough to keep the family on my own, and no price would have been too much to save my marriage.

If exposure had thrown them together, I would have let him go and not looked back. I wanted him back only if he wanted to be with me; if he wanted to be with someone else I could not wait to get rid of him. I told him that, and offered to buy him out of the house, and suggested that he lived a mile or two away; close enough to see the kids often but far enough away that I would not bump into him at the corner shop. He would not hear of leaving.

I had nothing to fear about any possible consequences of exposure and yet I would not use it. I really really wanted to hurt OW, but I did not want to hurt her H or family, and I reasoned that exposure would hurt innocent people. Of course, I know now that it is the affair that hurts those people. So far, remember, I was without MB.

Also, I would have died rather than let anyone say that I was a jealous, bitter woman, as I knew many would after exposure, so I hung on to my false dignity and let the affair continue. I was ineffectively trying to out-love OW and make H see how much the affair was hurting me. He did see that, and slowly withdrew from the affair, but not completely for over another year.

D Day 3:

This came about 6 weeks after D Day 2, in May 2005 when she came to London and he said he was working abroad but stayed with her in her hotel for 2 nights. He did this when our marriage was at its most precarious, leaving on a Sunday afternoon when he would normally have been at home with the children whom he hardly ever saw. Since I had not done anything about exposing him to his employers, it was easy for him and OW to speak on the phone at work, as they had always done; no calls had ever been made to or from my house. All he had to do was tell me he had dumped her and I could not prove otherwise, although I was ill with worry. I knew that since he had been capable of continuing the affair for two years from my first discovery, he was capable of doing so again, but I felt unable to make him stop. I thought that the only thing I could do was separate from him, and I was unwilling to do that because of the children.

I discovered his scam by listening to his voicemail when he got home from his trip "abroad". I did not tell him what I had heard. I made up my mind that we would separate after my daughter finished her GCSE exams. By the time she had, it was summer and I extended that time to after the holidays.

D Day 4:

This came after the summer holidays and I was expecting it, since I knew and hadn't spoken about D Day 3. After D Day 4 (when I saw a text message from her celebrating their latest night of fabulous love-making) I told H to move out. I later went back on that decision.
My regrets are the same as for D Day 2.

H still travelled abroad, which I should have stopped. OWH still did not know of the affair, and if he had he would not have let his wife travel freely as she did.

D Day 5:

OW travelled to London yet again, in the autumn of 2005. That time H did not spend the night with her but took time off work to go and see her in her hotel. I knew she was coming because I had found details of her job on the internet. Her company travelled in Europe, and the London trip was advertised. She was a conference organiser and the conference was open to the public; there was a call for papers. I should have gone to it!

Instead I waited for about 3 hours outside the hotel where the conference was being held, convinced my H would meet her. He did, and yet I missed them. I got him to confess to meeting her but he told me it was to say goodbye, because she had never accepted the break up. I nearly hit him for going back on his word to me that he would never see or speak to her again, but I believed his excuse, I really did. He confessed to me months later than it had been another sex session - while I had been standing outside the hotel on a freezing November day waiting to confront them.
My regrets are the same as for D Day 2. Goodness, this is becoming repetitive.

D Day 5:

In the January 2006, I discovered a dialled call from his phone to her number. In my anger I told him what I had discovered. He told me that she was being persistent but he was turning her down. She rang when he was away to say "how are you?" and he kept the conversation light and friendly, he said. I insisted on NC (still without MB) and he promised to achieve that.
Take a wild guess.

D Day 6:

(I can't believe I am writing this. If you knew what a feisty, tongue-lashing witch I usually am you would never believe how I crumbled under this continuing affair and put up with it, trying to show love and patience. This was so unlike me!)

In March 2006 I found another dialled call and ask why he was still speaking to her. It was the same story; she would call to see how he was, and, he admitted, probably to try and re-start the affair, but not explicitly so. He could not be hard on her and tell her to leave him alone. He had told her how it was hurting me and that he himself wanted the calls to stop, but she would insist that she was only being friendly and every few weeks would call again. He was always light and would end the calls quickly, he said.

I'm going to skip the regrets part from now on.

D Day 7:

In May 2006 just over a year from D Day 2 OW started sending sexy text messages to his phone again. These had ended many months earlier. They seemed curiously designed for me to see. After one in July 2006 I told him to move out. He swore up and down that he had never seen the texts himself, because I had discovered and deleted them (true). He had not seen her since the last time I knew about (November 2005, to say goodbye, in London). There was no affair and had not been since the previous September.

I withdrew my demand for him to leave and we went on holiday. I told him to take his phone this time and that I would check it. The day he was due back in the office after the holiday there was another text about her "missing his kisses" and I told him to get out. That's when he confessed that the affair had never stopped (yet again; first 6 weeks, then two years, then 5 months, then 9 months, with major D Days at these points and minor ones in between). They had only met about 3 times during the final 9 months (utter rubbish, I found out later via her husband) but yes, it had continued.

He got on his knees and begged me to stay, but it was only his going in to work, off his own bat, next day and refusing to travel ever again, that made me stay with him. He was the head of his team and would be leaving them in the lurch, but junior members could do the travelling and he would stay in post (not travelling) until they replaced him. They did after about 9 months, and he took a small pay cut and a much less interesting job. However, he seems to feel himself lucky to have a job at all, and even more so to have me, and has never complained or try to make me feel bad for "making" him make that choice.
His leaving the phone at the office, once I had told him that I had seen him using it, and the messages still appearing on it when I did see it. I let him talk me into believing that the contact was one-way, was from her to him, was entirely unwanted and was not physical.
I should have discovered the identity of OW; I should have exposed to OWH and my H's employers; I should not have revealed my clue to affair (the phone).

I can forgive myself the first false recovery, because I don't think that It Is normal to assume that absolutely every WS will do what my H did and continue the affair for 2 years. My H did not even tell his OW of my discovery at first. He pretended that it had not happened, I think so that she would not ask questions about why he hadn't left.

However, I am angry at myself for letting the other D Days happen. I knew from the second one on what a liar and despicable cheat my H was, and yet I struggled on in the marriage trying to believe that he would change because of "our love", my distress, and because he did not want to lose the family.

I was staggered when I later discovered the circumstances of H's lies, but I have read even more staggering things here - such as Christian waywards lying with their hand on the Bible.

I would say to any BS who has already undergone one FR that they should not trust their spouses ever again. We should trust only what we can see. Words, tears and promises from our repeat offender spouses mean nothing at all. All waywards change their morals to fit their affair behaviour, but the BS's hurt means nothing to at all to the repeat offender, in my experience.

Repeat WSs probably love their children, yet their children's futures mean nothing to them. I think that Plan A is a good thing to do with a first offender, but it will not change the behaviour of the repeat offender wayward.

Some BSs seem able to cope with continued contact, but some, like me, suffer mental health problems as a result of it. I wish I could make WSs insist on verifiable action before they allow the marriage to continue. I don't understand why a repeatedly betrayed BS who Is familiar with MB does not do this.

My marriage is very badly damaged as a result of repeated FR, not the affair per se.

Probably the most important thing I learned from false recovery was that it isn't simply actions that define waywardness. Not actively engaged in an active affair is not the same thing as being a FORMER wayward spouse. Just like an alcoholic who has not had a drink in 6 months does not indicate that they are "recovered."

Real recovery requires true repentance and true repentance is not merely a change in actions but a change in thinking that results in a change in action.

It is all too possible to have NC, change your actions and interactions and still be wayward in thinking. This can lead to a restarting of the affair or another new one with no real warning.

And it requires more than just a lifting of the fog of the affair to truly change from wayward to FORMER wayward status. As long as the phrase "I'm sorry, but..." still permeates conversations, the F has not yet been earned. In fact, it isn't even really pending. It indicates that the WS is still but a renter and has not yet become a buyer. It means a sense of GIVE and TAKE rather than GIVE and RECEIVE.

Mark

attitude adjustment required

Very well said!

Consider the character of a repentant heart. Then watch for the actions that demonstrate those character traits of a truly repentant person. Also, watch for actions that demonstrate an unrepentant heart.

A WS may be willing to do SOME actions that do look repentant. But there are some they will refuse (like not using an IM), that indicate unrepentance.

Mark, you have expressed very well something that I have established in my own mind.

I have realised for some time that there is a difference between a wayward who is no longer in the affair and a former wayward. The problem is that I don't know how a BS can ever really know the difference, or at least not after a FR.

My H has said many times that the affair is over, and has promised me that what happened will never happen again. And while he is not exactly contrite and horrified about what he has done, or disgusted at what he became, he is passionate and loving and caring to me, perhaps more than ever before. He does seem to be very sorry that he hurt me.

The problem for me is that I know how easily and convincingly he can lie, and so I have learned not to try and judge what his attitude or demeanour mean, or to rely on my instincts. My instincts have been as wrong as they could have been with regard to H's honesty in the past.

During FR, I watched him lie when I knew about some contact or other and when I confronted him, if I hadn't known already about the contact I would never have known he was lying. He never looked guilty while he lied, he never avoided my eyes, he never blushed or stumbled over his words or did anything else suspicious. He looked me in the eye and told me that he hadn't seen OW and but for the evidence contained on his phone I could not tell that he was lying.

During FR our sex lives improved; I suspect that he was highly turned on by my willingness to compete with OW and I was probably trying to bond with him to break the bond that he had with her. And so now I cannot look at how passionate our sex life is; it was more passionate than ever before during FR.

His desire to keep the marriage going - as well as the affair - at times when it seemed most likely to end, made him attentive, kinder, more passionate and, it seemed, just more loving to me than ever before, in and out of bed. That was partly why it came as such a shock to find out about the final 9 months of FR. My mental anxiety and fragility during those 9 months came from the fact that he still travelled in his job and he still went to work everyday and was at liberty to talk privately to her on the business phone from his (private, solo) office. It came from the fact that about 4 times I found her number in his dialled calls on the mobile. It did not come from his treatment of me.

The dialled calls are obvious clues to me now, but at that time I thought I could not divorce him over the record of dialled calls. I could not break up my children's home over that.

And so, because I have learned not to try and judge H's attitude or demeanour, I go forward on the basis of the provable changes in his actions. He has given up the travelling job, and since I contacted OWH, she has given up her job abroad and moved back into the marital home. She is not free to come to London any more. However, I feel that I can never be sure of complete NC; they can always use public phones and internet cafes at any time to contact each other.

And so, I have ended up with what you describe; at best, a husband who is no longer in the affair but not one that I can call a FWH. I am not unhappy with that limbo, but I would prefer to have the security and commitment that other BSs here feel. I just don't know how to get it, or what gives them their certainty.

I was somewhat reassured when the affair descended into acrimony in 2007, after OW heard from her H what my H had been saying about wanting rid of her for months. Her love turned to hate within days, and she told him "you're not dumping me; I'm dumping you!" However, I am aware how easily their mutual feelings of anger could soften and that they could reach out to each other again. If that happens, I don't know how I would be able to tell. I could not tell at all that the affair was continuing during the first year of FR.

I don't see myself as necessarily in real recovery now. I might be, and if I am, time will tell. If I'm not, again time will tell. I firmly believe that if he and OW are is some kind of contact will find out one day, and that if and when I do, I am incapable of being hurt as I once was.

That is because I don't believe in him any more. I don't really know how any BS who has suffered repeated betrayal can fully believe in their spouse ever again. I envy those that do, but I don't know how to achieve this myself.

Sometimes I hate myself for my own behavior during FR. I was so, so DUMB! That's a hard pill to swallow.

Like many of the other responses here, I would not have let him come home so early. I would not have put up with his relentless pouting for six months. I would not have allowed HIM to call all of the shots (a result of ME being run by my own FEARS).

I would have tracked his a$$ much more than I did instead of believing and TRUSTING him at his word (what a DUMMY I was!)

Oh, and I would have kept in contact with OW'H to compare notes. I big red flag for me should have been when he deleted OWH number on my phone and made ME feel guilty for ever having TALKED to him.

Basicaly, in all of his diabolical behavior during FR, I should have told him to go jump in a lake (I'm being nice here) and I would have put a DARK PLAN B in place.

Also, I would have watched the checkbook. A big one. I actually trusted him with it while he spent, spent, spent, siphoning money off of his paycheck every two weeks to finance his A.

This certainly seems to be the theme of this thread.

We often see this moment as our big shot at recovery. Fear takes over and we make poor choices and lay our heart out there yet again to the wayward.

I hope that through my mistakes and pain, others could avoid some. However, it may be like with your kids, one has to experience things in order to see the light...


1. WHAT did you do that you wish you'd done differently?
Kicked him out the first day, not allow fence sitting, not beg and cry, hmmm, not listen to what I wanted to hear but to really listen to what was being said...I saw some terrible divorces and didn't want that for my sons, what I did to avoid divorce was worse on me...I should have trusted that they would be okay as I would be there to help them vs. caught up in my pain.

I wish I had not stayed married at all costs because the costs financially, emotionally and the additional pain I caused to my kids for not protecting them wasn't worth it. I think that often the BS can be selfish too and hide under the umbrella that they don't want to D due to the kids where it is really the fear and insecurity keeping them there, not the kids (at least not entirely).

2. WHAT clues did you miss (or ignore) that your WS was not ready for recovery?
Mostly it was his attitude didn't change, he acted like he was doing me a favor. Wasn't open and honest, didn't read anything and went grudgingly to counseling. Fought/argued about A details, didn't want to discuss as he didn't "remember". I sensed the insincerity deep down, didn't want to face it.

3. WHAT lessons did you learn that you'd like to pay forward to others, so that they might avoid a FR?

Like others said, trust your gut, I sensed something wasn't right after d-day #2 and snooped and snooped, kept looking...it took me three years to find it. The pain and shame of my own stupidity is hard to bear, my biggest problem is forgiving myself.

In my sitch I was/am the breadwinner and supported WH's dream of owning his own business. The business tanked due to the economy, we are in major debt. Before we closed the biz, I workd FT+, did the books for WH, cleaned the store, grocery shopped, paid the bills, cleaned the house/laundry. WH was plotting how to get in touch with OW. I can't come up with the words of how I felt last year after finding out...shame, pain anger, beating myself up, wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Have boundaries, look at the attitude, trust yourself, and verify with every manner you have available. Avoid inflicting pain on yourself by being grateful he/she is there and not asking for the respect and a good relationship that you deserve.

Wow -- this is a great thread. Lots of beneficial information. And I can relate to most of what everyone is contributing as I've "been there, done that" multiple times this past year.

Red Flags:
1. Trust your kids' instincts.
I wanted to believe that each of WH's returns were real, as did my DDs. But DS17 knew all along that WH wasn't sincere. He could tell that Dad wasn't the same old Dad.

2. Beware if WH avoids family events.
My WH either did not attend (I'm "not ready") or drove his own car so he could leave early.

3. Beware of WH making promises -- even the ones he makes in writing.
Just because promises are in writing or spoken in front of a priest/parent/counselor/kids doesn't make it less likely he'll break them. I tried that.

4. WH underestimating how hard recovery would be. He repeated "It's not that hard. I never really tried before" to convince me to let him come home the last time. I've learned: IT IS THAT HARD AND TRYING IS NOT COMMITING.

5. Each False Recovery is worse than the previous one.
I should have been more forceful during FR #1 to prevent the rest. And the last FR was pretty much a joke. I did figure that he just wanted to be home for the holidays to "save face" with the kids AND to get his name included on our family Christmas card.

6. Beware if it's all about him and his pain and his depression and withdrawl. Too much space is not a good thing. And he should have been breaking his back to make it up to me. Instead I got ignored.

7. Don't negotiate.
Big lesson -- Do not negotiate with terrorists. Do not negotiate with waywards.

If he requires negotiating, he's not ready. You shouldn't have to convince him to come back. He should want it badly.

8. Don't be afraid to bring in others to make sure WH is ready to come back. Use SH or family members or friends. Not that it will happen again (since he's filed for D), but should he ever want to return, I'd convene a giant meeting and let them drill him on motives and let THEM vote as to whether he can rejoin the tribe -- er -- family or be voted off the island.

THIS IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT.

After the FR I have never negotiated recovery and I don't plan on starting.

I'VE done all of the reading, learning, understanding and with the help of MB and everyone here, I know pretty d*mn well what it takes to recover.

If a FWS does the same kind of learning that most BS's do, there wouldn't be a NEED for negotiating.

a big A M E N