Just checking in. Things are going ok. There was some difficulty at first getting used to being together and trying to figure out how to live in the same house. I have never lived with anyone before I married him, and he has never really been around so it was strange to me. Things like having him in the bathroom when I am brushing my teeth seem uncomfortably intimate and sort of invasive, but we are working through it.

The kids both had the flu when he got here, and he got sick in the first few days, then DS had 2 weeks of snow days and we got snowed in for almost 2 weeks, so that just added to the stress. Getting better now though, and we are getting in a schedule and relaxing somewhat.

Triggers were hard at first, just having him here was enough to set me off, but now I am trying to intiate some type of affection when the bad thoughts start, a hug or just holding him hand. It helps to keep my mind focused on the present and makes me feel a bit more connected to him.

Keep working this through.
Be open to these changes.
You will be required to make adjustments that, at first, feel weird.



As recent retirees, H & I are getting used to spending SO MUCH time together.
That change, although positive, was also stressful.

My very sincere advice:

Bring your sense of humor to every new & weird situation.
Laugh at yourself a lot.
Smile a lot.
Ask "What is the lesson here?", a lot.

Thanks Pep, its reassuring to know that it's normal to have an adjustment period that can be stressful. We went from him never being here to him being here all day every day so it was a major change for us. We still have some things that we need more work on but I really think we have handled it so much better than we would have done without MB.

Valentine's Day has been nice for us so far, I bought him a new big flatscreen TV, so he seems pretty happy. I got a pretty new necklace, roses, and a new vacuum cleaner which was actually pretty nice of him since he knows that I hate my old one.

We were talking last night and we have a question that we were wondering about. We have been spending a lot of time together, UA time is 3 or 4 hours a day, and we were wondering what sort of results we should be expecting? If we keep following the program I know the goal should be romantic love, but is it going to be similar to the feeling we had when we got married or does it feel different somehow?

We both feel in love but it is not as strong as when we got married. Does using MB give you back the feeling that you have when you first fall in love? After everything we have been through I dont think either of us knows quite what to expect.

Awesome!!!!


I want to hear your answer in... hmmm.... 3 months time. IF you maintain that level of UA time.

I bet you knew the answer to this question before you hit "Submit".

Relationships change over time. The salient point of the MB program is that by working the program a couple can actively foment changes in a positive direction. You actually, given your relative youth, have an advantage that us "oldsters" never had - you can start NOW to ensure that you (or your husband) will not be here in twenty-five years, starting off a thread:

I could have written that, and probably 80% of the posters here could have as well.

What I'd like to read from you in twenty-five years is:

How about we make a bet? I'll bet you that I'm still kicking in 25 years, and your bet is that you can write that thread. You should take that bet in a heartbeat. In 25 years I'll be pushing 84 and much of the factors that would interfere are largely out of my hands. You have a much greater degree of control over ensuring that you can hold up your end of the bet.

Do we have a bet? Name your stakes!

I do know that it wont be the same, I guess maybe I meant more if it would be similar or if it would always feel less...broken...damaged.

It's going decent here. We took a trip out of state to visit his parents, which was nice since it gave us a little vacation.

Life seems to be handing us a new start. I lost my wedding ring a few days after he got home, it's been too big for me for two years and it has never come off and that day we were out shopping and the next thing I know it was just gone. We looked forever but couldnt find it so I got a new one. The old one was a painful reminder of broken promises.

We move into a new apartment the first of next month, this one has too many triggers for both of us.

We started going to church, and now our priest wants us remarried in the church as soon as possible...

I guess I am ok wih everything moving on and starting to get normal except that last one. I know that the church sees us as living in sin because we didnt get married in the church, but I dont know if I am ready for that. I dont think I am prepared to make that kind of commitment. I dont trust him, and I wasnt planning on doing that until we were fully recovered.

We have the date for the church wedding as sometime in May. Hopefully that will give us enough time for me to feel more secure with it. Started my classes tonight and I will get to be a confirmed Catholic in a little over a year. It's a necessary step in that process, but it's scary.

Hoping to start the MB online program soon, maybe next month if everything falls into place with the finances.

Surely between God and Dr Harley I can get past the bitterness...

The most freeing thing you can do with the bitterness at this time is just to accept that you are bitter, that you have a right to be bitter, and that you will continue to be so until you see marked improvement consistently over time.

It's not about getting past it, it's about getting the things needed to eventually just let it go - forgiveness and just compensation.

GET THAT UA TIME IN!!!

Been awhile since I posted, and H suggested that I post an update on our progress

He has finished CDL school and has truck driving job that is strictly local with no overnights away from home, which is a huge relief for me. He is able to meet my need for financial support and still keep up what I feel is the most vital of our EPs. We are trying our best to get our UA time in every day, and most days we are pretty successful though there is a day now and then that the kids are cranky or sick, we just make up for it later if that happens. We spend almost all of our free time together and are very rarely away from each other unless he is at work and then he calls me on his breaks and sends me texts as he has time during the day. He drives a set route for his job so I can check the GPS on his phone at any time and see if he is where is supposed to be and that is so reassuring to me.

We are doing a pretty good job of meeting EN's and most of the time we do well at avoiding LB's, when they start creeping in we try to sit down down together and evaluate to figure out what is going wrong and get back on track. We are finding that the LB's can be very sneaky and subtle and leave you feeling bad without really knowing why so that is still a work in progress for us. I guess it always will be, with LB's and everything else MB, things change and life throws new stuff at you and the best you can do is just be honest and keep working together. We have been working on our intimacy and have come up with several things that seem to work extra well at keeping us feeling close, and working as a team so thanks to all of you who suggested that I look up intimacy building exercises because doing those regularly really helps make it easier to focus on caring for and protecting your spouse.

Something else that really helped us is that between our tax return and his severance pay from the military we have gotten quite a bit of extra money since he got back and spent very little of it in ways that were really financially wise, instead we spent it on fun UA activities, doing family outings and trying to make happy memories. We decided that after going through so many bad and painful things that fixing our M and refilling each others LB$ was more important in the long run than filling up our savings account. It made such a huge difference in the way I feel about him, and sometimes I catch him looking at me with this silly happy look on his face. He was laying in bed with me a few nights ago and he told me that he is just happy that he has such an amazing wife when he knows he does not deserve me. In the long run I think it was money well spent.

We used part of the money and got things for our vow renewal in the church in June. We were trying to schedule it for when his family is coming here to visit, and June 4th was the only day that the priest had available. I realized after we left his office that June 4th was the one year anniversary of the big DDay when he revealed the four other ONS that I had not caught him at yet. So we decided to reclaim the day in a big way and have the ceremony we didnt get to have with our wedding. The priest gave us permission to make it as big and fancy as we wanted to so he got a nice suit and I got the big white dress and we are going to take that day back and make it ours like it should be.

It's still a roller coaster, and we both still slip and make mistakes and have bad days, but its getting very much better. The last bad day I had I ended up in the bathtub crying, nothing he did wrong just a bad trigger day, and he came and got in the bath with me with all his clothes on and just held me while I cried. Not perfect yet, but still trying and getting better.

Hi Ashes,

I am glad things are going pretty well. Thanks for checking in and updating your thread. It sounds as if you will have a pretty good party the beginning of June.

When my H and I were attending our pre-marital counseling 29 years ago, the Chaplain had us complete an exercise. He had us write down a list of 25 things to do for less than $25. Of course, with a current understanding of MB concepts, I realize that what we were doing was coming up with ways to meet UA time with RC without breaking the bank and creating financial issues. Just a suggestion for later when the tax return and severance pay $$ are unavailable.

Keep up the good work on your marriage.

AM

That's excellent advice AM, he had to change jobs to one that doesnt pay as well because he was working 17 hour days and drving an hour each way for work. The new job has better hours and we do get family and UA time now but we have to cut some expenses to do it.

Things are still going pretty well but I am not healing as quickly as I would like and my H is getting frustrated with me. There are things that trigger me that I used to do for him and can't do anymore without resenting him, and he has started to complain about it. I don't know what to do, I want him to be happy and to meet his needs but I can't do these things without suffering through vivid and painful thoughts of the OW's.

He seems to be getting more impatient with me, wanting his pre-A W back, and I don't know if that is possible. I can heal, but I don't know that I will ever be the same exactly. I am more cautious and guarded, and I look at things with more cynicism. I don't want to be his pre-A wife, I was naive and foolish. I can be a good wife, but not the same, wounds like these leave scars.

Just feeling frustrated today.

So we decided to reclaim the day in a big way and have the ceremony we didnt get to have with our wedding. The priest gave us permission to make it as big and fancy as we wanted to so he got a nice suit and I got the big white dress and we are going to take that day back and make it ours like it should be.

Way cool!

The last bad day I had I ended up in the bathtub crying, and he came and got in the bath with me with all his clothes on and just held me while I cried.

Even cooler! The man shows potential RFA!

He does, in a lot of ways. I'm not saying there aren't still things we need to work on because we do, but we are trying and things are getting better. I am just so frustrated with how slowly healing is going. I want to be able to be with him and not have thoughts of the past in my way.

I guess the only thing to do is just take those things back too. Take them and make them mine. It might suck the first time, or even the first several times but if I put enough memories of us in my head then it will cover up the skanks that are in there now.

No sense in letting the past ruin any part of my future I guess.

Ash, I am glad to hear a positive update! Can't wait to hear how things go in June (wow - just a couple weeks away!)


I don't think anyone who has been through infidelity can ever expect to be the same. I think no matter what side of the equation you are on, you will always have scars. Depending on both parties' committment to R, some scars may heal pretty good...you may only see them when the light hits them in a certain way, or if you rub your hand over them just right.

Others may heal, but they're always there. You may be able to cover them with a bandage, or makeup, or hide them under your clothes, but the job of your spouse - particularly if they are the one responsible for those scars - is to be extra tender with those scars. They should ensure that they don't do anything to aggravate old injuries. They should give physical therapy when needed, because they should render care to the person they hurt.

And despite the scars we may have, and those that we may give, we continue to see our spouse as the most beautiful human being alive.

Taking stuff back and making things yours...Ash, I think you are gonna be A-OK.

I am ok, and it took me a long time to get to being ok. I am just not moving past that. I would like to be great, or even good, but I'm not. Just ok.

I dont cry everyday, and I am not suicidal. I dont hate my H and I dont sit awake at night contemplating smothering him with his pillow. I dont give too much time to wishing pain and humiliation on the OW's.

If H wants to talk I talk, if he wants a hug I give him one, if he holds my hand I let him, if he wants SF I try to always respond lovingly and enthusiastically. I do the best I can to meet his needs, make him happy.

But that's where it stops.

If I take something back in my mind it means it has become something I can do or somewhere I can go, or even a date on the calendar I can live through without crying and feeling sick. The things he did with them are things I dont feel I will ever be able to compete with. He told me they were better at it and thats how I feel. They dont become mine really, just things that I can live through. Maybe that's not such a triumph, but it's better than avoiding them forever. I think he said too much to me for me to ever feel like those things could ever be unblemished. They have nasty OW prints all over them.

Kind of like if they had spilled ink on my favorite dress, I might be able to scrub at the stain enough that I could wear it again and no one else would know, but because I knew where the stain used to be I still notice the last little bit of discoloration that wont go away. It would be mine enough for me to wear it, but it would never be free completely of the stain they put on it.

I have written many posts and even emailed with Dr. Harley trying to get past the things he said, and believe they were just fog talk. Nothing worked. Not completely.

I still feel second best to them, but I am not hurt by that much anymore. I still believe that even if loves and desires me that I am just not going to be as good as they were, but I have accepted that. It's just part of life now.

He tries to help me get past that, and maybe if he continues to try for a long time then things might change. I dont know if they will or not. He lied about so much for so long that I dont know if I will ever trust it.

If I dont it's ok, I know I am doing the right thing for my kids. I hope that one day I will, but I dont know how much of what I feel is permanent scars and how much will change with time and care from him.

I spent a long time hating him so much I honestly wished he would meet with some horrible accident and die slowly and painfully so where I am now is a lot better than where I was then.

It would be nice if I healed more, but if this is as recovered as I ever get it's better than I expected it to be.

Take that, and flip it. Subtract any knowledge of infidelity.

I've been there.

I'm kind of in the same place. It's weird.

I had meant to post to you earlier about what you said about your H climbing into the bathtub with you fully clothed while you cried.

This was a moment in your life, and yet, I couldn't help to picture a moment in a chick-flick which would make a lot of women tear up and say "I want a man like that."

Our moment was when FWW was in labor with DD11, and they put her in the whirlpool at the hospital. This was long before I had any aspirations at being a nurse myself. I went down with her to the whirlpool room, and without hesitation or worry, I stripped down and joined her. Apparently this isn't a common thing, as my sister heard the nurses commenting positively on it in the hallway.


Don't get stuck on those things that "you can't give him." He is there because of the untold, innumerable things that they could never be - his wife, the mother of his children, his life-long companion.

I think you have more to offer than you give yourself credit for.

I have lots of those moments, my H is just that kind of guy. He was a soldier and has a black belt in a field of martial arts I can't even spell, MVP any time he plays a sport...but he remembers birthdays and anniversaries, buys flowers and presents for no reason, is a wonderful and attentive father (we stole the idea for Daddy Dates from the Men's Recovery thread), he helps to clean and loves to cook, is a good dancer, and so much more. It's a good balance, still masculine but excellent at the softer more sensitive things as well. Romantic I guess would be the right word for it, and he helps and supports me. He just has a lot of positive qualities.

He would be a very nearly perfect spouse if it wasnt for the cheating and the addictions and the lying. I was the proudest wife imaginable when I married him, now I am ashamed. Not really of him, but that I wasn't good enough for him and now the whole world knows it.

And yeah I know, he is still here, so I must be doing something right...but I have to confess that out of curiosity I clicked on the link in your sig line, the one about resilience and iceburg beliefs...and I think that's just one of mine. If he loved me, if he desired me, he would have been faithful to me no matter what. The article was written for men, but I think that principle applies for women too, those strongly held beliefs.

Didnt realize it till I was typing this but maybe that's why I cant get past the thought that they are better than me and that he doesnt really love me. No matter how many times I hear everyone explain about fog babble and rewritting history, or the contrast effect, or just flat out trying to lessen the guilt, those contradict my deeply rooted belief that people who are in love with and desire their spouses dont cheat.

Sorry I poked my nose in the "No Gurls Allowed" area, but it was some good information and thanks for sharing it.

Something else for me to think through anyway.


Oh and about getting into the tub with your wife when she was in labor. Thats a very sweet story, and definately a chick-flick moment.

Lol. When I started the "No Gurls" thread, the title was a ploy. It's been awesome for me, and hopefully some other men here.

I get you, RFA. I pretty much got tossed for what amounts to a 4-peat ONS. It sucks, and it hurts.

I do think that there are some things in the Men's thread that could be helpful to ANYONE, and not just the men.

Iceberg beliefs is one, and catastrophizing is another, FEEL FREE to poke around. My only intention is that we men hold each other accountable for being men, as the women here do already naturally.

>.<

It's been an unpleasant few days. H came home from work the other day and I did a random check of his phone. Still not seeing any evidence of an A, but I checked his browser history for his internet and found an online porn site. I check his phone every couple of days and I have never seen anything like that on there before.

He says that he didnt do it, that he let some guy from work looked at his phone because the guy was wanting to check out what it was capable of because he was considering buying one. The guy supposedly asked H if the phone was able to be used for looking at porn and H told him that he didnt know. The conversation moved on to other things and he was showing the guy some different applications that he has and he got called away for a few minutes and left the phone there. He said he was gone maybe five minutes and since the conversation had already moved on past the porn question he didnt think anything about it until I showed him that the site had been looked at. He supposedly didnt think that someone would look at something like that without asking for permission. I dont believe it either, why would anyone be looking at that with a phone that didnt belong to them? Then again I cant see my H watching porn at work either, that doesnt make any sense, and he is with me every minute that he is not at work...

I know I have seen H do stuff like that before, he's really into computers and technology and he likes showing off his phone but... I was so angry and hurt, I know I was everywhere with the LB's. I cant figure out why he would do this, we have SF at least once a day unless he says he is tired and that doesnt happen very often. I try to keep a lot of variety so it's interesting for him. I just dont understand it.

He told me that it wasn't even the porn site he used to use, and he told me which one he used to look at. Supposedly so that I would know what to watch for and I would be able to check and make sure that he wasnt looking at it. I got on the computer and looked it up. It's disgusting, all these sickly thin anorexic women with fake DD's....I guess that's what he likes but it's just awful. I would never in a million years want to look like that, it's not natural. It's absolutely disgusting to me that he was ever looking at that, makes me sick. I can fully understand now why he was never satisfied with me. I cant compete with that, and I dont want to. I dont want to look like that, or act like that.

This is happening right on top of the 1 year anniversary of my last DDay with him coming up in less than a week, and the renewal ceremony...we already have people coming in from out of the country for this and all I want to do is RUN.

I'm sick and disgusted and confused, I dont know what to believe or what to do about it. He offered to have the internet on his phone turned off and told me that he would not let anyone else look at his phone again, he apologized for this happening and upsetting me. Reassured me that he is happy and fully satisfied with me and the SF...I just dont know. I'm in full blown pain/panic mode. If he did do it then it is a major violation of his EP's and that's very scary for me.

Rising,

I am sorry for this bump in the road. Definitely eliminate the internet from his phone. Dr. Harley always advises to eliminate the conditions that allow an affair. If necessary, get a different phone that does not access internet.

AM