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RisingFromAshes #2514466 05/30/11 10:06 PM
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I dont know what to believe or what to do about it.

Well, you certainly know what you SUSPECT, and as for what to do about it:

He offered to have the internet on his phone turned off and told me that he would not let anyone else look at his phone again, he apologized for this happening and upsetting me. Reassured me that he is happy and fully satisfied with me and the SF

Yep, all of that is good. Add to it checking his phone records periodically, and overseeing his internet browsing, and you and he will be putting in place some better EP's.

Now, how seriously do you want to twist his sack on this? You can insist on a polygraph about this if it is that big an LB for you. Here's NeverGuessed's long-distance polygraph analysis: There is no "friend" who borrowed his phone. (God, that's the best he could come up with?) Your husband had a momentary lapse in judgement, and surfed to a porn site. Now you have to start from that point, and decide how to get him to jointly design a plan not to let it occur again.

NeverGuessed #2514548 05/31/11 06:03 AM
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Sounds life a rough few days for sure. But step by step you two will work it out. I would cut the internet off his phone. I would also remind him that total transparency and honesty really helps rebuild trust in the relationship. I too think his story is fishy but what more can you do about that specifically. Set boundaries together. In the beginning for us oundaries were more like my demands for recovery. It never worked. It wasnt until we worked on them together and talked about what would work and why that we figured out boundaries that were meeting my needs for security if you will and were honestly something he felt he could do. Praying today is a brighter day and that you guys keep building up your lovebank and tear down the walls that lb can build in marriages.

I wanted to tell you that I feel your pain and have been there. Time has lessoned the triggers but we are roughly 6 years out now. More than time, working on the marriage and focusing on the good things and creating new memories has helped a lot. Sometimes I would literally have to force myself to refocus my mind. But as time continued and I saw his actions now the better things have gotten. I still trigger but it is FAR less frequent than before.

I am still working on me. Actually I really just began to refocus on me after all this time. And as I am able to take care of me more I'm able to give the marriage and the kids more too.

NeverGuessed #2514549 05/31/11 06:05 AM
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Rising,

A few months ago, the VA provided my H with an IPOD to assist with his memory issues. I was concerned at the time because the IPOD had the ability to access the internet without me knowing about it (H last contacted his OW via email and telephone from his mother's computer and phone). When he received the IPOD, my H promised he would not use it to access the internet. A couple of months later, I discovered he had downloaded a GAME from a free site. H broke his promise to me and even though it was a game that he downloaded, I did not feel safe with him having the IPOD. It is now in the top drawer of my dresser, with a dead battery.

Develop your EPs, whatever makes sense for you and your H. And then, don't wiggle on them one inch - not even for something seemingly innocent or unimportant. Everytime something small or thoughtless happens, it sets us back.

Oh, and protective lying prevents intimacy. A WS's total transparency is step two of the MB plan for recovering a marriage. Cliff notes version of MB are: step one - end the affair and no contact for life, step two - total transparency and step three - create romantic love between the spouses. Figure out how to apply step two.

AM

Last edited by armymama; 05/31/11 06:09 AM.

BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2514560 05/31/11 07:28 AM
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I hate the whole protective lying thing. I just don't get it.

calismile #2514603 05/31/11 09:35 AM
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Canceling the service on his phone doesn't mean that he won't be able to access internet. It just means that he will be charged a per kb rate if he does access the internet.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2514810 05/31/11 06:57 PM
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People with "secret, second lives" tell lies. They do this so they can continue to do whatever they want, without anyone giving them grief about it. They already know that what they are doing is wrong or offensive to someone else.

I have never really understood it either. I am pretty much a "what you see is what you get" person.

HHH, on our phone bill the pay as you go KB usage can be tracked. I am not certain about the other. Maybe, it can be tracked as well. Another alternative is a phone with no internet capability.

AM

Last edited by armymama; 05/31/11 06:59 PM.

BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2514912 05/31/11 09:29 PM
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Both of our phones have GPS things in them, and he uses his internet to get online and check the location of my phone so he knows that I am where I say I am when he is at work. Turning off his internet would disbable an important EP for us.

I tried to fix his phone so that it would block any site that was inappropriate for users under age 17, but the parental control feature that is offered with our cell phone service doesnt work on smartphones.

I can install Spyware that is compatible with his phone's operating system that woould keep track of all incoming and outgoing calls, texts, etc and keep a log of his internet browsing history. It would also let me listen to any phone call without him knowing I was listening. I'm thinking that is our best option. That way he can still use his internet to keep track of me, but he wouldnt be able to access anything inappropriate without my knowledge.

IDK what to do about the lying. I cant control what he does and I have done and said everything I can think of to explain to him how hurtful and destructive it is. The only thing I know to do is to minimize the opportunites he has to do something that he would feel the need to lie to me about.

And just pray that one day he decides to do the right thing and become an honest person.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2518230 06/09/11 01:24 PM
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We made it through the weekend, the vow renewal, the kid's baptisms, his family being here...It was crazy and hectic but it was nice. And we still got in UA time grin

My mom took the kids Thursday night for us and I went to work Friday with H. We had a good six hours worth of driving and he talked non-stop the whole way. Lots of stories about his childhood and his family, and some that I had not heard before about the drug use that he did before he met me. Lots of deposits for conversation and honesty.

The vow renewal ceremony went beautifully. We only had a small group of family and our closest friends in attendance which I loved. Our priest was great and said some things that were very touching for both of us about how the story Eve's creation would be better understood in today's times if she had been created from Adam's heart instead. He said that people used to believe that the bones were the essence of who we were as people because that was what was left when the rest of the body had gone, but that we use the heart today instead. If the story said that Adam had woken and discovered that Eve was his heart that would make more sense to us. The whole thing was amazing, and my mother-in-law bought us a beautiful set of unity candles to light, we got our rings blessed and then each had a prayer said over us to help guide us to being good spouses to each other.

Afterwards we had a very nice party with lots of food. We took a ton of pictures and both of our families had a good time. Everyone brought presents even though we asked them not to and generally treated it just like a wedding. H had found a cake that he liked but it was a bit out of our price range so I spent two days making and decorating cake so he could have what he wanted, hopefully that made a few deposits as well.

We spent the rest of that day hanging out at the pool with the kids and his family, and then came home for some nice UA time.

The kid's baptisms were great too, we did them after Sunday Mass. We were originally scheduled to do it during mass but they had a special thing Sunday for all the couples celebrating special anniversaries. We had to stand up too since we had just had the renewal the day before. That was quite touching as well, our priest told us all that marriage was the one sacrament that has survived original sin and the flooding of the world, that it was such a special institution that they have couples marry in the church not so the church can bless the marriage but so the marriage can bless the church.

It wasn't a magical cure all but it did help. I feel like some of the specialness that was missing has come back. I haven't really felt like we were married since the first DDay since the vows were broken. This helped with that a lot, and it was definitely a step towards healing.

There are things that we still need to work on to get to the marriage that I know we can have but I feel a lot more hopeful that we can get there. Some of the pain seems to have lessened and I feel stronger in dealing with the bumps in the road.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2518233 06/09/11 01:34 PM
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Rising,

Your post makes me smile and feel cozy. It sounds like a really good weekend, full of love bank deposits.

I read your post to Eula and thought it was very insightful. I wish at age 23 I was as smart as you are now. I didn't start learning this stuff until I was 55.

Warm wishes,

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2518436 06/09/11 10:10 PM
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Thanks AM!

I have heard that often since I came here, that I am lucky that I went through this now instead of later. We still have a lot of time left to enjoy the benefits of having a MB style M.

I'm not so smart though, I have been here so long that I am about to celebrate my 2nd b-day as a MB poster and I am still learning and struggling to apply the concepts in some areas. H does too.

We are miles ahead of where we started though, and miles ahead of most of the other couples we know. We are recovering better than I thought we could. All around despite the setbacks and the imperfections it seems that I have a lot to be grateful for.

I wish we could have gotten here without the A's, but to be honest if things had not happened the way they did we would not have found MB, and we would not know how lucky we are. It would have been so easy to slip into taking things for granted and following the same path that most M's do...growing bored and resentful and just growing apart. We had small signs already that things could go that way. I guess I wont ever know for sure but we have been married longer now than any of the other couples our age that I know. None of them made it past the two year anniversary. Several are already on second or even third marriages.

I think I am pretty lucky to know the things I have learned here, from you and the other posters that have helped me along the way.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2518472 06/09/11 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
It wasn't a magical cure all but it did help. I feel like some of the specialness that was missing has come back. I haven't really felt like we were married since the first DDay since the vows were broken. This helped with that a lot, and it was definitely a step towards healing.

I get that feeling.

Before I started posting here I was asking for a divorce because of that same feeling. I didn't want to leave, I just didn't want to live in what felt like a sham of a marriage, with broken vows.

Dang stubborn woman wouldn't give it to me...

crybaby

>.<


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2518756 06/10/11 11:33 PM
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Lol lucky you for getting a stubborn one!

Today was a bad day for us. H has to be at work at 2am on Fridays, which means we get in no UA time Thursdays and he gets very tired on Fridays. We get plenty of UA time the rest of the week but Thursdays leave me feeling a little disconnected and for some reason my sweet hubby, who almost never goes into the AO, SD and DJ area of LB's gets really bad about them on Fridays. He says it's because he gets so tired, which I guess does make sense. Just cranky maybe, it happens to me too when I dont get enough sleep.

Today was an especially bad Friday and we didnt either one of us handle it well. We actually got into a pretty major disagreement about what I was making for dinner sigh

Tomorrow will be a better day, hopefully I can get some feedback from H on how I can let him know he is hurting me without upsetting him even more. I think I will ask him if he is ok with going over our notes on dealing with LB's, since I seem to need a refresher course on how to handle it when he is doing something hurtful.

He got on here tonight and actually posted for the first time in over a year and told me that he thought that maybe it would help us avoid any more days like today. Fridays arent our best days but we very very seldom have days like today where we bicker all day long. We can usually pull out of it after one or two slips and get back to MB. When it happens though it is rough, and I am glad he has decided to come here and try to avoid any more of them.

He is posting now as helping_heal_her. The only unfortunate thing is that he started posting again to his old thread, which he has not posted on since before he came clean about everything. Just knowing that he is on that thread, where he was asking people how to help me and deal with everything and he was LYING to me and to the people helping him is a bad trigger. I dont even want to have to look at the title of that thread when I come into the forum. I am going to request that he start a new thread and let that one go away again. Or get it deleted by the mods...something...anything really so I dont have to look at it. It puts too many bad thoughts in my head that if he was lying to everyone then he could be doing the same thing now...

Off to sleep and cuddle with him, he is already sleeping but maybe I will feel a little better if I snuggle up next to him.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2519035 06/12/11 10:11 PM
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Thanks to those who stopped by my H's thread, he said that some of you had. It was suggested to him that we make a plan for dealing with stressful situations, so we did. We know certain days etc are hard so we planned for that, including no serious talks on Friday only fun things. We also planned for the unexpected bad days when one of us is sick or something. Went over our plan for how to deal with each others LB's, and finally managed to POJA a way to do the questionaires weekly which I think will help a lot.

We had a good weekend lots of family and UA time so it doesn't seem like Friday caused us to go too far off track.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2520595 06/16/11 09:50 PM
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We have started doing the once weekly exchange of LB questionnaires, doing a check of how well we met each others EN's, and planning UA and Family Time. We have our plan for Fridays worked out, we are going to try having him take a nap when he gets home and see if that helps, plus no serious talk since we know he's sleep deprived. Hoping all of this helps.

It's been going pretty well.

I would like some perspective though from people further along in recovery than me. Does it ever get to the point where the A's don't hurt anymore? I know the pain is lessening and it's better, but does it ever go away? It still happens quite often that a movie preview or a song on the radio or some other unexpected trigger will pop up and it hits me all over again, "My H had SF with a bunch of nasty skanks and a prostitute." I still have nightmares about it occasionally too, and I wake up with all these horrible images in my head. Does that ever go away?

It would be so nice if it did. To be able to think of it as some obscure thing that has no relevance to my present life, not able to hurt me anymore. Like when I broke my ankle years ago, it hurt a lot, and for a few years it would cause me pain every once in a while if I turned it wrong, but now it's just a faded painless memory.

I know I'm a different person now because of what we have gone through in our M and there are going to be scars, but I could do without the residual pain.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2520628 06/17/11 05:06 AM
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Rising,

I don't know the full answer to your question. I can tell you what is happening with me. D-Day was three years and two months ago. I believe recovery started in Jan 2010, when we attended an MB weekend and the following week, my H became truly open and honest. Weeks that we follow all the MB principles are much better weeks for us.

There was a time right after D-day when the A consumed my thinking. Today, I don't get upset at the same triggers any more. Songs, movies, the news (the current crop of cheaters getting coverage), etc don't trigger me anymore. Sometimes, I think H is triggered. Last night, a commercial that used to trigger me came on. I was not bothered by it, but I noticed H's hand was figity. Neither of us said anything for a few moments and then out of nowhere H said that he loved me. I smiled and said it back and everything was ok.

I sometimes still get very upset. A few days ago, we were looking for some Army paperwork from 2007-08, the time of the A. I got very focused on that timeframe, what was happening when, and what I was feeling then. It felt just as bad as it did right after D-day. That is the PTSD portion of this whole thing. I keep telling myself that I have about 30 seconds to think of something else before the emotion floods in. Sometimes, it works. The other day, I was not fast enough or maybe it was because it was taking quite a while to dig through filing cabinets. From his VA PTSD group, my H applies what he knows about PTSD. One time, he said something about so many BSes having PTSD and the benefits of memory management. He also knows from his own PTSD from Iraq that the thoughts cannot always be avoided, but can be eased.

I always look for people who are in recovery for longer timeframes. There are lots of vet examples on here and Dr. Harley says it is in the thousands. Pep and her H have been in recovery for 15 years and are in massive love with each other. Mel has been in recovery for nearly 10 years. So, I know it is possible to have a great marriage. I think you and your H are on the right track. I think eventually it will feel like your ankle.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
RisingFromAshes #2520950 06/18/11 12:33 AM
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Rising,

My DW and I are a little further along that you are. D-Day was two and a half years ago, but we probably should start the clock in June 2009, because that's when she finally stopped trickle-truthing me to death. I'm still trying to overcome that six months of pluperfect he77.

There were a few pieces of evidence from her A, but almost all of them have been trashed. I did keep one thing, however. I still have an ATM receipt from a cash withdrawal she made before doing her one out-of-town excursion with Pond Scum. Maybe it's a talisman of some sort, I don't know. I only know that I'm not quite ready to throw it away -- at least not yet.

I have been using it as a bookmark. The other day, I opened it up to look at it and found the ink on it had faded to nothing. You could see a general outline of what had been printed on the paper if you held it up to the light just so, but even then it would have taken a magnifying glass to make out what had been there.

This is a pretty good metaphor for what's been going on. Personal healing has been going on, and it's been helped in no small part by her willingness to do what it takes to repair things. She's completely transparent and does everything in her power to make me feel safe again.

No, I'm not quite there yet. But like the ink on that slip of paper, the bad memories are starting to fade. Soon they'll be to the point that I'll have to strain to remember just how bad it really was. Realizing that fact has made me more optimistic that I'll truly reach that stage, sooner rather than later.

Time is the great healer. Hang in there.


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
AheadOfTheCurve #2521435 06/19/11 06:59 PM
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Thank you so much for the insight! I think that I am probably behind where I should be when it comes to the triggers for a couple of reasons. Mostly it's because he was gone another 6 months after our final major DDay and that is a nearly impossible way to recover. So I guess I feel like we are more like 6 months into recovery since thats how long he has been home.

The second issue is the amount of trickle truth. He was wayward and high after DDay, so not only was he lying but he couldnt remember what he had lied about so the story kept changing over and over. It has taken a very very long time to sort out what is true.

I also have a very good memory about things like that so it will take a long time for the memories to fade, which I think keeps the pain fresh longer.

I have hope though that eventually they will as they are replaced with happier things.

Friday was better with our new plan but we need to make a few adjustments. No UA time Thursday is really hurting us, so we need to figure out what we can do about that. It makes me feel disconnected and way more sensitive to any LB's from him, and it is triggering thoughts of my infidelty in him because he says that I seem unhappy.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


RisingFromAshes #2521493 06/19/11 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
We have started doing the once weekly exchange of LB questionnaires, doing a check of how well we met each others EN's, and planning UA and Family Time.

This is AWESOME.

Performance, feedback, revision.

As things improve and become more natural, and as things settle and EN's become more stable, you probably won't do it weekly. But, having it as a habit now is a great idea.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
RisingFromAshes #2521572 06/20/11 07:50 AM
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No UA time Thursday is really hurting us, so we need to figure out what we can do about that.

It's not an adequate replacement for actual time together, but on days when you are necessarily apart, take fifteen minutes and write him a love-note (yes, the old-fashioned way, pen on paper!).

Your first efforts will be stilted and awkward, just like a child learning to walk. Don't give up. Over time you will develop a feeling of "talking" to him through that medium. Slip the notes into someplace that will surprise him - lunchbox, portfolio, something he carries to work - to let him know you were thinking about him. He'll think of you as he reads the note, and the EN's you've exchanged will jump into his brain.

Try it. I think you'll enjoy the feeling and the results.

NeverGuessed #2521748 06/20/11 03:58 PM
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We have already started leaving little love notes for each other, I put mine in his wallet for him to find when he gets to work, but it's just short little notes and not a real letter. Letters might be better.

We also call and text each other as much as possible while he is gone.

Not sure why missing that time on Thursdays is such a big deal for us, maybe it's missing out on SF that day...we may have to experiment a bit and figure out the thing that we are missing most and try to work it in somehow.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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