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It pays to talk about how to do the right things in relationships, so your kids understand what you are doing and why you are doing things. Whether you believe it or not, they are watching every single thing you do, and learning from it. They swear they won't grow up to be like us,
but they do. And they do it better, if we teach them better!
BTW, about your job, God will open the door when He is ready. But you knew that.
SB SB, Isn't that the truth! The kids mirror us in SCARY ways sometimes. Visited my parents this weekend and I am shocked how much like my dad I am. Good and bad. Work is turning into an almost funny thing. I am filling pulpit at our church this week, so I am getting paid for it.Also have a few landscaping jobs lined up to get us through til a job comes in... He certainly isn't letting us starve!
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Hi, I'm new to the forum. I've been reading the site for about 2 weeks now. Good stuff so far, but I haven't been able to find anything on sexual abuse. A little about me: 41, married 22 years, three children: 20, 18, 17. I am the pastoral intern at our church. On june 18 2008 I found out my wife had been having a 10 month affair with a co-worker. I had suspected, but she denied it until I caught her in a lie. After coming clean about that, she admitted she had a 2.5 month affair in 2001 with a coworker.
We are coming up fast on three years. She just admitted that she loved the second guy. She ceased the affair immediately, cut all contact, and has been pursuing reconciliation (we have stayed together through all this) with me. Here's my problem.. in 2000, We agreed for her to go to counselling because of a highly abusive alcoholic father, and to deal with her sexual abuse. She was abused between the ages of 4 and 9 by an uncle. The counselor basically used his time to hit on her... I found out and stopped it. A few months later, it came out he was sleeping with 3 other women he was counselling. One of the things he told her was that she would get better if she was more promiscuous. We have dealt with many issues related to her abuse from her father and uncle... My question is this: How does it factor in? She still claims I provided everything she needed and it was a desire to get the acceptance her dad never gave her. Am I missing something important? I am ready after nearly three years of work (hard, painful work) to quit. We never got counselling. I would have lost my job immediately and we quite frankly would have been ostracized in our church community and I wanted to preserve what little reputation she or I had. The other guys are totally out of the picture, but I really just don't trust her despite the fact that I have seen change and effort. I'm just plain exhausted. Any advice about the relationship between being sexually/physically abused and meeting needs of the person that cheated? Not to T/J here, and I agree with what you said Pep.. but Waywards aren't really in a position to think clearly. There is direct and there is rude.
I too am skeptical, but she is here for help and not a hammer. 2x4's yes, hammers no. I've seen a few chased off the boards that I felt might have stuck around with a more... um... tamer approach.
Sorry for the thread jack and if we want to continue it, I am willing to do it on my thread (sexual abuse and affairs)
CV
_ Welcome to Marriage Builders. I have no desire to t/j your thread. Don't like my tone? Hit the notify moderator button. Thanks.
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Welcome to Marriage Builders.
I have no desire to t/j your thread.
Don't like my tone?
Hit the notify moderator button.
Thanks. Pep, Honestly, it's kinda crappy sometimes. There's great stuff mixed in, but you come off as angry and hurt sometimes more that direct and to the point. I love a lot of what you post on the site. I am not in disagreement that there are some that need a good smack in the head (or two!), but to always charge in like that shows a lack of discretion. Honestly, I don't understand the idea that just because it's anonymous doesn't mean we cannot show them some basic human respect. MB is great to work for everything but interaction with people that aren't our spouses... That's what i'm learning through some of these posts... What I get is that it's ok to juggernaut through (particularly) waywards here, and it's ok for us to come off as argumentative, but when a wayward or other newbie does, they can just hit the street. We are quick to point out others screw-ups but slow to receive our own. I am a BS too. I get mad when i read some screwed up posts... But while it works sometimes, it is not always the best way. People have differing personalities and not everyone responds the same way. Part of reasonable human interaction is recognizing this and reacting appropriately. It's not just you. I am not pointing straight at you. I am not saying don't be direct, open and honest... I am saying that there are differing ways to achieve that and we can all do better. My W wanted to check out on her thread. She felt that there was little compassion. Here is a woman who is 3 years from Dday and asking for help. She LB'd her butt off and felt (whether real or perceived) that she was getting lumps unnecessarily. I encouraged her to stay and ride the wave, and it has benefited her (and me), but it might chase another person off. We want to help as many as possible, right? CV
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Honestly, it's kinda crappy sometimes. There's great stuff mixed in, but you come off as angry and hurt sometimes more that direct and to the point. I love a lot of what you post on the site. I am not in disagreement that there are some that need a good smack in the head (or two!), but to always charge in like that shows a lack of discretion. You must be kidding? Pepperband has been on here for over 10 years helping people with her advice and it is very disrespectful of you to tell her how to post. That is a disrespectful judgment in the extreme. You have no idea what will get through to whom; it takes ALL TYPES. Personally, I do not appreciate your style. I think it is too vague and unfocused and I have a hard time following it. I find it very distracting to newcomers. But I would never be so arrogant to presume to TELL YOU how to post. I RESPECT that it takes all kinds to get through here and your style may hit the mark while others don't. I am deeply offended that you feel qualified to tell other posters how to post. That is the moderators job, not yours. If you have an issue with a forum members post, you should let the moderators handle it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Disrespectful Judgments In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force [fellow posters] to give us what we want, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our [fellow poster's] personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our [fellow poster] in an effort to get our way.
At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our [fellow poster] a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.
A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one [poster]tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a poster tries to force his point of view on his fellow poster, he's just asking for trouble. When a poster assumes that her own views are right and her fellow poster is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.
In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one poster wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our other posters, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You must be kidding? Pepperband has been on here for over 10 years helping people with her advice and it is very disrespectful of you to tell her how to post. That is a disrespectful judgment in the extreme. You have no idea what will get through to whom; it takes ALL TYPES.
Personally, I do not appreciate your style. I think it is too vague and unfocused and I have a hard time following it. I find it very distracting to newcomers. But I would never be so arrogant to presume to TELL YOU how to post. I RESPECT that it takes all kinds to get through here and your style may hit the mark while others don't.
I am deeply offended that you feel qualified to tell other posters how to post. That is the moderators job, not yours. If you have an issue with a forum members post, you should let the moderators handle it. No. I am not kidding. I'm serious. As I said, I am not talking about content. Pep's content is nearly always great. I'm saying how we convey sometimes should be taken into consideration. I am aware that some of my comments appear vague and unfocused to some. It's ok. I'm not talking about content, just tone. I agree, it does take all types. Disrespectful judgment? I disagree. If I didn't like pep I wouldn't have said anything... But your point is taken, I will just notify the moderators next time.
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Disrespectful Judgments In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force [fellow posters] to give us what we want, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our [fellow poster's] personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our [fellow poster] in an effort to get our way.
At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our [fellow poster] a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.
A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one [poster]tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a poster tries to force his point of view on his fellow poster, he's just asking for trouble. When a poster assumes that her own views are right and her fellow poster is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.
In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one poster wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our other posters, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. Lol... Or vague and unfocused...
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There's great stuff mixed in, but you come off as angry and hurt sometimes more that direct and to the point. Accusing posters of being "angry" only means you don't agree with their point. Pepperband is about 12 years into recovery so the angry card is very inappropriate.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Disrespectful Judgments In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force [fellow posters] to give us what we want, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our [fellow poster's] personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our [fellow poster] in an effort to get our way.
At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our [fellow poster] a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.
A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one [poster]tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a poster tries to force his point of view on his fellow poster, he's just asking for trouble. When a poster assumes that her own views are right and her fellow poster is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.
In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one poster wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our other posters, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. Lol... Or vague and unfocused... That was one of Dr Harley's own articles with the pronouns changed. "Vague and unfocused" is not a description I have EVER heard in relation to his clear, concise and articulate articles. In fact, clear, precise articulation is what sets him apart.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[Pep's content is nearly always great. I'm saying how we convey sometimes should be taken into consideration. I am aware that some of my comments appear vague and unfocused to some. It's ok. I'm not talking about content, just tone. Yes, I know. And you are saying your tone is superior. Which is profoundly arrogant and offensive.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Lol... Or vague and unfocused... That was one of Dr Harley's own articles with the pronouns changed. "Vague and unfocused" is not a description I have EVER heard in relation to his clear, concise and articulate articles. In fact, clear, precise articulation is what sets him apart. No.. Not Dr, Harley... I was referring you your DJ towards me. 
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Lol... Or vague and unfocused... That was one of Dr Harley's own articles with the pronouns changed. "Vague and unfocused" is not a description I have EVER heard in relation to his clear, concise and articulate articles. In fact, clear, precise articulation is what sets him apart. No.. Not Dr, Harley... I was referring you your DJ towards me. ahh gotcha! And I agree.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes, I know. And you are saying your tone is superior. Which is profoundly arrogant and offensive. And very, very disrespectful. If I didn't like pep I wouldn't have said anything... This is how most DJs are disguised. "I like you, so I wanna straighten you out ... to help you ..."
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There's great stuff mixed in, but you come off as angry and hurt sometimes more that direct and to the point. Accusing posters of being "angry" only means you don't agree with their point. Pepperband is about 12 years into recovery so the angry card is very inappropriate. Didn't say Pep was. I said that Pep appeared that way (and others too) at times. Communication is a funny thing. People come from all different walks of life. We have our own little dialects of language, for some here, English may not be the 1st language. As a result, we understand things differently, from different cultural/sociological perspectives. Finding a common language is difficult, and as a result, understanding (of something being said) is always in the realm of the listener and not the speaker. discussion forums are extremely limited in this capacity. For instance, you may perceive me to have a burr in my saddle right now, when I really don't. In actuality, I'm sitting on my back porch, in an easy chair, drinking an Arizona tea and not upset at all. Truth is, we can all do better than we do. My comment was nothing more than a gentle admonition. Take it for what it's worth. Thing is, I agreed with Pepper's point, but not the delivery. CV
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Yes, I know. And you are saying your tone is superior. Which is profoundly arrogant and offensive. And very, very disrespectful. If I didn't like pep I wouldn't have said anything... This is how most DJs are disguised. "I like you, so I wanna straighten you out ... to help you ..." No. I know I need to improve the way I speak as well. BUT! That is what we call in logic a red-herring. not that i am opposed to talking about that. It is how many are disguised (DJs). That's true. And sometimes things simply are what someone claims they are. A gentle admonition given out of care. See, if you knew me (the guy sitting her at the keyboard) you know that what my concern is, is that BS' and WS' get as much help as possible (just like everyone else that posts help here). I don't want to see anyone run off for something that I did that was easily prevented, or something someone else did that was easily prevented. All of you have helped me. I appreciate it immensely. You guys have helped so many others and I admire that greatly, but it doesn't change how i feel about it. Or... Am I not entitled to that?
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A reminder that it is the job of the moderators to straighten out other posters. If you have an issue with another poster, let us handle it. But don't start fights telling others how to post. It is disruptive and disrespectful. Let's get back to marriage building!
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Honestly, it's kinda crappy sometimes. Not interested. Hoping your M recovery is fulfilling.
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[quote=celticvoyager]
Hoping your M recovery is fulfilling. Thanks Pep. it is. We are genuinely looking forward towards the day we are fully recovered.
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...I've seen a few chased off the boards that I felt might have stuck around with a more... um... tamer approach.
I appreciate your wanting to stick up for those folks, although personally, I'm sorta inclined to question whether they exist. Maybe they do, probably they might. I allow for the theory.
Your wife has stuck around. She's looked herself in the eye, looked in the rearview mirror, done some hard introspection, and internalized pretty well a proper understanding of the hows/whys/whens of where she went wrong, where her choices were selfish. She's had a thick skin, has taken good advice, and stuck around even when it wasn't fun or painless to contemplate what she'd done & been. I think that's great, and I'm rooting for you guys. I think your story has a lot to offer other BSs and WSs.
My unproven theory is that I don't think a wayward can dependaby earn his or her "F" [for "Former"] by any other route. If a wayward spouse is serious about rebuilding a better marriage that will stand fast, then there'll be days when the wayward spouse feels like crap. And there'd better be. That's part of confronting what you've done, when you've done what I've done & what she's done. As a wayward, there's no shortcut that you can trust to get your mind back where it needs to be, from where it was.
Now, there can be luck. Just like I can stand in my driveway blindfolded and heave a basketball backwards over my shoulder, and 1 out of 400 times I might just bank it off the garage roof & the maple tree and swish it through the hoop despite the odds -- so can some people probably recover their marriages while having skins so thin that they can't stand up to a few words bearing merely the light of truth (which is sometimes harsh, and salutorily so), borne by mere anonymous strangers on an internet forum. My theory is that people who can't hack that, probably can't hack facing down what they allowed themselves to become, in such a way as to ensure that it never happens again.
I agree there are times when the old saw "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" applies; but most waywards come here with the primary problem of having a lot of crud on their emotional boots (on account of having stepped, waded & wallowed in crud), and honey ain't gonna get 'em clean at all; whereas vinegar might. This make any sense?
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Hi G.O. Ok. I was going to respond last night, but am trying to avoid being moderated  I guess if we talk in this vein it's safe, because we are talking about helping WS and not about anyone in specific. Personally, I am the type of person that'd like to just roll through someone who's done this, and I'm working on my own approach to well... just about everyone I try and interact with. I guess I'm trying in the broader sense to operate on a principle. One that I see in Dr. Harley's books and articles... 1Th 5:14-16 And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. (15) See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone. (16) Rejoice always, I understand that not everyone here is a Christian, and i am not here to convert anyone. However, Scripture is my primary recovery book. SAA, HNHN, LB, and the forums are secondary to me. Good tools all, but not like the scriptures for me. my thought is that some aren't strong enough to take it, so i agree with you. I'm not suggesting that they be coddled, but built up. So I guess the question for me, that I've been thinking on, is how is the best way to build a weak person up? Particularly when there lacks a foundational relationship between the person asking and the person giving.
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