First off I am new here, so bear with me. I have read the 10 basic concepts, I am part way through His needs, her Needs and I have love busters in the mail and enroute. I have also poured over these forums and read several of the columns.

My story, I will try to keep it brief. A little over one month ago my wife and I broke out into an argument. It was like most arguments, about nothing important. But what was different this time is it ended with her saying she didn't want to be married anymore, and she "loves me, but is not in love with me". Normally I would have blown this off. But it was said with such conviction it struck to the core.

After a few days of complete shock I began getting a strange feeling. Like something was hidden. So as much as I tried to resist I couldn't. I dug around on her laptop and found the first signs of a possible affair. I tracked the OM (other man right?) down on facebook, found his wife and contacted her. Between the two of us we pieced it all together and my wife confessed to me. She had been engaging in an online affair for about 4-5 months that ended with a sexual encounter at the beginning of May.

Devestated and in complete disbelief I had no idea what to do. I love my wife and my two daughters more than I could possibly explain. I certainly do not want a divorce and ...as much as some of you may gawk at me, I forgave her. Why? Well I spent the past two years being a complete jerk. I had withdrawn emotionally from our relationship completely. I had become so self absorbed in my work and the stresses involved that it became easier everyday to just dissappear from my marriage. I wasn't having an affair, I simply wasn't supporting her needs (which I learned alot about from reading on this website the past couple weeks).So in a sense I drove her that way by emptying the love bank, and letting OM fill it.

So here is my current situation. We are in counseling. I feel the counselor is completely ineffective and a complete waste of time. I do not believe my wife will be happy to try the programs here with me. As a matter of fact I am not sure she is 100% interested in saving this marriage (although she claims she wants to "work on it"). So where do I go from here? Is there a way I can convince her that we should give MB a try? Am I sunk?

Tmvi,
Sorry you've been betrayed, but glad you found us.

1) Okay, first of all, how confident are you that the affair is dead? (I'm not.) Women don't stop feeling for their new loves when their physical access is cut off. They pine away in their minds, hoping for that magic rekindling. Her disinterest in restoring your marriage is concrete evidence that she's in that "waiting" state. In the meantime, secretly load all computers with keylogger software, and put "flexispy" on her cell. Put a VAR in her car, and a GPS reporter on her car.

2) How convinced is your WW of the fact that "I love my wife and my two daughters more than I could possibly explain. I certainly do not want a divorce...." ? If she knows that, REALLY knows that, you have very little chance of kicking out of "affair dream-land" and into real life. Start understanding that as much as you WANT to be married to her, you do not NEED to be married to her. Without that in your arsenal, she'll play you like a puppet forever.

3) Make an appointment for both of you to have a complete battery of scans for STDs. If she won't go, tell her to get the hell out. This is not negotiable.

4) Find out how evidence of adultery is treated in divorce cases in your jurisdiction.

This is a starter-kit for the fight you're about to begin. It will get uglier before it gets prettier.

NeverGuessed,

1) I am at least 85% sure she is done talking with with him. I do agree she is in the waiting mode. I have spoken to him and his wife alot. He does not want a divorce either, and being in North Carolina he does not want to get slapped with the Alienation of Affection lawsuit. Currently we are the only state that upholds these. So I am reasonbly sure they are done talking, but 99% sure he is still on her mind.

2) This is a tough one. I have to be honest and tell you, i am scared to death of turning the tables. If I do I am afraid instead of trying she'll just go for the divorce. And I really don't want one. I truly do love her, I always have. So maybe some insight in how to do this would be helpful. What is a VAR?

3) Good thinking. Not sure if I have the balls right now to tell her to get the hell out ! But none the less a subject i should approach.

4) I have researched this quite a bit. Again we have the alienation of affection laws here and they seem to be very broad. Sex does not have to be proven. it simply has to be shown that one spouse fell out of the marriage with someone else.

I figured it will get uglier, but try to remember, I want to save it...not end it!

Finally is there a thread that explains all of the acronyms (WW, WH, OM, and so on?) I feel a complete noob.

Gloveoil,

1) Actually he sent her an email and CC'd me that was pretty plain about wanting no further contact. As suspicious as I am I cannot say for sure that is what is taking place.

(2) The affair has been exposed to his wife, my very close friend(not his wife), and she(my wife) claims to have told one of her friends. I fear putting it on the street at this juncture would end our marriage immdiately. I gave her foriveness and I no longer mention anything about it to her. I did tell her if I find anything else, even a hint of contact we are done. Divorce and dude gets sued. I am not digging in her stuff, but part of me is dying to do so.

thomas, sorry you are here. Every BS feels "at sea" when they first find out about the WS's affair. It can and will get better.

First off, has your WW ended all contact with the OM? Even if she has, she will probably go through a period of withdrawl, and that may last several months.

If your WW has not ended contact with the OM, expose the affair, and be prepared for an angry reaction from your WW.

If you haven't read Surving an Affair, you need to do that. Perhaps your wife will read it, too. In the meantime, let her know that you are sorry that you weren't meeting her emotional needs. Do your best to meet those needs.

You can't begin recovery until your WW has ended all contact with the OM and is through the withdrawl. In the meantime, do not expect much from her in the way or remorse or constructive conversation.

This is EXTREMELY frustrating for the BS but necessary groundwork. Be prepared for this to last as long as 3 months. Be the best partner you can be. Come here to vent, because you don't want to do any love busting with your WW.

Sounds to me like you have a good chance to make it, if your WW gives up all contact forever with the OM and if she is willing to build a new and better relationship with you.

Thomas,

Quick comment that you could not be in better hands. NG, FF and GO are the best. Please listen to them! Good luck to you.

Thank you all so much, you have my wheels turning and some motivation stirring.

I should explain how I feel about Keyloggers, trackers, and so on. I understand you are telling me these things to defend myself. But when this first kicked off it was eating me alive everyday as I dug through her computer and found more. Or if I saw evidence on the phone bill. I strongly feel part of what she needs right now is to know I can trust her again. i say this because several years ago I was somewhat in the same shoes she is in now. So how do I balance her trust and my defense? I realize i can't walk around blind and dumb. but I can't spend every waking moment looking at her under a microscope either.

You guys truly are awesome. i read some of your other posts and I am honored you are willing to share with me. thank you so much, you have already lifted my spirits a bit.

i am scared to death of turning the tables...I am afraid... Not sure if I have the balls right now

I can't think of a pleasant way to say this, so I'll just say it: I think we have found the problem.

Let's consider instead of a case of infidelity, you were suffering from a case of gangrene. The doctor says, "The best way to proceed is to slice you open, remove the infection, and sew you up. There will be blood, and pain, and quite possibly a negative result that will result in your dying anyway." And your response is "I'm afraid. I don't know if I have the balls right now to attempt to fix the problem."

Dude, you're gonna die.

Seriously, where is your RAGE? Where is your EGO, your SELF-RESPECT? Your wife wrapped her lovely legs around some other guy, gets caught, and says to you, "I'm not certain I give enough of a shi+ to make the smallest effort to repair the damage I caused!", and your response is to snivel, "I really don't want to lose my wife and kids"?

Wow!

(BTW: VAR = voice-activated recorder)

Thomas,

Yeah, the folks he are insanely awesome. One quick thought? Rather than thinking of suspecting and defending, how about thinking that you are PROTECTING?

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Thomas, you are in the right place. Many of us here have saved our marriages and have very happy marriages today using these concepts.

The biggest impediments to your recovery I see are:

1. you are not SURE she has ended all contact - you need to GET SURE if you want to save this marriage

2. you are not snooping. You should be snooping using every resource possible to ensure there is not continued contact. That is your responsibility to your marriage. It is up to you to protect yourself and your marriage from her destructive, irresponsible behavior. Slap a keylogger on her computer, flexispy on her phone and a VAR and GPS on her car. This will not only protect you, but will go along way in restoring trust in your marriage.

3. you are keeping her affair secret from family and children [and close friends]. Everyone should be told of her affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret for her, simply fuels the fantasy. The more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable. Mold does not grow well in sunlight. Exposing her affair is the single greatest thing you can for your recovery.


AND


And you might be scared that this will make her mad, but that is ok. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger. We are not here to avoid making your wife angry, but to save your marriage. Don't worry about exposure ending your marriage.

4. "I gave her foriveness and I no longer mention anything about it to her." Giving her unearned forgiveness is harmful to her and your marriage. A better strategy is just compensation. Forgiveness should be earned via just compensation.

Annnndddd....I type slow. HEAR NG, OK? Hear his words.

Annddd...there's ML. You have the big guns helping you, Thomas. Read on.

Feelings are not truth and possess no intelligence; this is a prime example right here. I would ignore any feelings that tell you to "trust" an untrustworthy person because those feelings are insane. That will doom your marriage.

You should tell her if she wants to be "trusted" she should earn your trust by behaving openly and honestly and transparently for a very long time. You cannot trust her and that is a simple fact.

Look up co-dependency in the dictionary.

If your exposure ends your marriage than she wasn't worth being married to anyway.

Thomas, If you wish to save your M then listen up. Much of this is going to be counter intuitive. Intuition is the reason you are here. Your M cant be driven on intuition. We all intuitively do in our M what we feel is best. It ruins a M.
The only true way to make a M work is through a plan. Policys of Joint Agreement and Radical Honesty. Eliminating Love Busters. And then meeting our spouses emotional needs. That works! Intuition kills it.
There is no way around exposure if you truly want this Affair to be killed by your hand, your WW isnt going to do it. She is in a fog and in love with this other man. Kill it yourself and allow her time to de-fogg.
Plan A this to the letter for yourself and your children. Do as you have been told and quit being scared. That "fear" is a recipe for doom. Its time to man up and take control of a WAR that you have been drug into. Do not expect repentance from your WW anytime soon. Be selfless for now but firm and loving.
Your Marital problems are very run of the mill and can be corrected and then made to be like it was when you were dating. But as long as the Affair has any chance of survival your never going to get that chance. KILL IT with EXPOSURE.
Snoop away as privacy is for the bathroom not for your partner in life. Transparency should be a given in M. Its your right.
I know how you feel, been there done that. Its a long road. Buckle down and listen and learn.

Wow.

Ok, admittedly I am being cowardly, and that does hand her power and freedom to do as she pleases. Sad really, I have 20 years in the military and I can say first hand I do not shy away from a fight. But somehow this is so much different. I need to find my courage. Does it sound crazy that I feel like I will have betrayed her if I expose? I have alot to think (and read) on.

As far as the VAR, GPS, Flexispy, Keyloggers and so on.... As tempting as all of that is, for the time being I want to avoid it. It was her mannerisms that gave away this affair. Her body language is like reading a book. If I get that tingle of strong suspicion then I will consider deeper measures. I know too many of you this seems foolish, it evens does to me a bit. But I need to stand firm on this for now.

Try to remember I spent nearly two years as a complete A-Hole to her. Not intentionally, but I was none the less. I need to fix that as well. Your advice gives me tons to think on, and I am taking it seriously, thank you.

There isn't anyting we can do for you if you choose to be an enabler. Enablers don't make it. You should listen to this radio clip between Dr Harley and another enabler: here

I wish you the best..

oh wait, I think I posted the wrong link. The correct link is here.

I cannot get either of those to play, they link to the segment but never load up.

removing email