When is it too late to expose the A?

I've just recently kicked my H off the "Fence", he's been with the OW 6 months now.

Would it do me any good to expose the A to anyone I can if my H has already "Let the cat out of the bag to some of his friends and family"?.

Chopping,

The vets on this site will advise you better than me. But yes, you should expose your H's A! Now! To everyone you know! At the same time!

... OK, enough with the histrionics; but yes, you need to expose your H's A as soon as possible; the longer his A continues, the tougher it is to break up, as friends and family get accustomed it and think you don't care. Do you have your own thread?

I just saw your message. You could go either way on the recital, but I would tell you to go, not for legal reasons, but just to have the memory. Sit away from the WW and don't interact.

As far as having two mediators: I think it's a waste of money to have two mediators. I had male and female mediators and didn't feel a bias from either of them.

Just stick to your guns on 50/50.

Hi help,

Thanks for your counsel. I ended up going to the recital, but it turned out to be all sound and fury in my head signifying nothing.

I arrived an hour before WW said the recital would end. In fact, it ended just as I arrived. I saw WW alone from a distance but nobody else. Her enabling friends weren't there. The OM wasn't there. DD2.5 wasn't there. And worst of all, I didn't see DD4 on stage. After the recital ended, I got in my car and drove home alone without turning on the music.

Would sending a message to WW that I attended the recital but didn't see DD4 help my cause in court?

Oh also, should my lawyer be present for the mediation? Please answer this question, as I may need to shell out MUCH money!

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

I'm new here, I don't know that I've started my own thread yet. I'm going to double check.

Thank you!

WW sent a message of complaints to me. Why weren't you at WW4's dance recital? Why didn't you open to my father's day gift to you in front of our girls? Why do you take the girls to the babysitters and look for a job instead of keeping them with you? (She added that all of this is her fault ultimately. She married me. But she will rectify this mistake in just a few months).

I am inclined to respond in a calm and deliberate manner to her claims, all of which are false. Would doing so be a mistake?

Also, the OM has been around our kids. My girls tell me of his presence regularly. Should I send WW a warning for the OM not to be around them?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

She just dropped a lot of bait for you. Be a smarter-than-average fish and leave it alone.



Of course. Of course, you can start it off by saying "WW, much thanks you for your note - I will give it the attention it deserves..."

Thanks, MIM. What is the bait in this case? Showing my hand or getting angry with her?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

The "bait" was all that nonsense she said about you. I suggest giving it the due attention it deserves, e.g. ignore it.

Do not respond to her. But keep notes of your responses to her allegations for future reference.

You should not be concerned with her feelings. Having said that, receiving no response whatsoever drives most people crazy. Which is not a bad thing here.

You�re living rent free in her head. DO NOT RESPOND!

None of her allegations are anything to be concerned about in a custody fight.

If anything, get your lawyer to file a motion requesting that the paramour not be permitted to be around your kids.

Will it be granted? Probably not. But request it anyways and see if you can have it delivered to OM in addition to WW.

Can you do alienation of affection? What about a lawsuit based on mental cruelty? Perhaps something relating to interference in a legal contract? (Your marriage)

But don�t respond to her emails.

The criteria I was given was this: Unless there is blood on the ground or someone is about to die, do not communicate and only do so via email.

You didn�t open your father�s day gift in front of the girls? Really? This matters because��

IT DOESN�T!

No court will fault you for getting a sitter while you look for work. They might even commend you for it. This is the kind of petty stuff that courts hate. It�s stupid and petty and shows how little of the reality of divorce your WW understands. They don�t get the consequences and are shocked to discover that it isn�t rainbows and roses with kids frolicking in fields with bunnies running about while you sit on the side and smile at her for how happy she is with her new man.

Hi Mj,

First time on here in a week or so, but well I agree with others. Silent to your WW like in the movie 'Run Silent, Run Deep', unless you don't care if you play into her hands.

Biggest concern - om at all around your kids and your ww allowing that. My God, has this country changed so much that that would not be a legitimate issue? I would look into that hard MJ.

Other than that, what are you doing to help you in this?. New job, exercise, gettign out with friends, and etc.

Take care MJ but I am both concerned and praying for ya.


Tom

Hi Tom,

Good to hear from you. Funny you should mention the OM.

My WW is going with our kids this weekend to North Carolina -- the home state of the OM. She says her brother, who is in the Air Force, got a new assignment. It is true that North Carolina has an AFB (Seymour Johnson) and that DD4 mentioned she is seeing her uncle. It is also true that in a September 2008 email to the OM, she mentioned that she wanted to take our daughter to a beach house with the OM.

What to do? I plan to send WW an email asking for her contact info in NC and my brother-in-law's address and phone number. If she won't disclose this information, I don't need to drop the kids off at the babysitter's on Saturday. We have a mediation settlement in a few weeks, so withholding the kids may make me look bad.

I'm hanging in there. I got a good, new schedule. I go to morning Mass; workout (run or do sit ups and push ups); work on a book project; look for a job via networking; and freelance. (Three real job possibilities have opened up, so that's reassuring).

By 6 p.m., I'm done for the day. I eat dinner, call a friend or family member, read, and go to sleep. On night each weekend, I hang out with a friend. I also have two priests my age with whom I confide. This weekend I plan to run an 8k, my first since high school.

How are you? How's your wife?

I've been looking for a good schedule for pushups. Do you know of one?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

I wrote an email to WW warning her not to exposed the OM to our kids. The text is below:

Hi MJ,
Well on the upbeat scale I am happy to hear you starting a conditioning program. On the pushups - lots of vidios on how to do. For me just body straight and on toes and arms and then do it. On the downbeat scale just a lot of issures here for me to deal with, so I have not been able to be active here much. I will tell you one thing tho, I did talk with both my wife and my son this afternoon, expect a call from our daughter this evening, and that was good. My son, who is in his 20s, hadn't called me for a few days before this and I was truely worried. He did call tho and found out, from what he said that he had an infection maybe due to an insect bite a week ago and had to be treated. He seems okay. It never ends, but I am so thankful that he is okay.

I just wanted to relate this to you because it really affected me. I rode my bike to a few stores last Saturday and it was hot here. Heat index. Never have really worried about it before but on way to the last store on my bike I got dizzy and had to dismount to recover. When I got back home I felt a litle better but weak but had a few more dizzy spells right in my living room here. It was a first saturday and I wanted to fullfill that and went to evening mass and confession and felt a bad dizzy spell just sitting for the readings. I've since chalked it up to the heat and me outside but I wasn't sure then, but have not felt like that since last Saturday. This may sound extremely stupid because I did not choose to get medical attention, but I feel the Immacculate Mother protected me at that very time because I did not feel like myself or at all in control of myself. I feel much better now, but it isn't due to anything I did. That type of feeling when you fear that somthing serious is happening beyond your control and that you may die was not scary to me but it was overwhelming. I feel now today that it was probably the effect of the heat but I honestly have to say that I wanted to get their to church on this first saturday to try to console Mary, and no altho I was worried about a possible affect on my wife and our son and daughter I just went ahead. I have not even told my wife or our kids to this point what happend and I honestly feel I do not need to.

Tom

I got my first mediation session tomorrow. Is there anything at all to look forward to?

Per the advice of helpthelostdads, I read Jeffery Leving's "Father's Rights." Leving advises what is essentially a Plan A: Be conciliatory; look at things from her perspective; listen, listen, listen; acknowledge the validity of her feelings; apologize when necessary; and explain that my plans are in the best interests of our kids and her.

I agree with Leving's advice. But he fails to mention an important point, or one in my case: I don't want the OM around my kids at all. Having my WW deny her A is not acceptable, or isn't if she insists I get less than a 50-50 deal.

... Please tell me that this is not happening and that a few words of love and kindness to my WW will make this whole nightmare disappear.

P.S. DD4 told WW that the OM was "selfish." She told me that the OM shouldn't be around WW and that he's "not our daddy." A hope in the unseen perhaps.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

One painful part to this whole ordeal is that I still have love in my heart for WW. I think of being with other women and none compare to being with WW and our kids. The thought of us reconciling and enjoying a better marriage is a glorious one for me. This doesn't mean that I couldn't live or prosper without her; I could. But I just can't get over how fast everything went wrong. Just tonight I found this email from her to me, which was six months after her EA and six months before she moved out:



-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

DO NOT DATE RIGHT NOW!

Your heart isn't ready. Your brain isn't ready. You could ruin a great thing with a good woman.

Be wary of any that stick by you right now. They're attracted to drama.

Those that don't show that they're mentally healthy.

I also completely understand how you feel. Sadly, you have no power over when or if she brings OM over. You can't demand it and the court can't really stop it, especially someplace where adultery isn't a factor.

Stick to the big picture. You get primary of the kids. She can have visitation.

50/50 is the minimum.

Be above the fray. Be calm. Try to mentally separate yourself from her and pretend she's a business person you're negotiating a contract with.

Remember that if something is proposed that you don't like you don't have to freak out about it.

Simply turn down things politely that you don't like or agree with.

If they offer you crap, then you're better off taking your chances with the judge.

If you get 50/50 offered, take it. Then go to a super dark Plan B as best you can with kids involved.

The less you involve yourself with OM and your WW, the sooner it will die it's own death, unless you have failed to expose it. If that's the case, then you've enabled it.

But if you've done all you could to kill the affair, then you can do no more and need to proceed with protecting yourself and your relationship with the kids.

Get a deal where you have them 2 weekdays and then you alternate weekends. Split the summer 50/50 as well where they are with you for a full half and with her for a full half, with perhaps some weekend time thrown in there during the "other's" time. You'll want to have the ability to take them on long vacations.

Or make sure you negotiate for the long vacation times.

But treat it very matter of fact and with little emotion. You're acting for the mediators, who you want to be impressed with your demeanor, politeness, and candor.

Dress in business casual attire. Full suit for court, regarless of what the appearance is for.

Hi help,

Thanks again for your detailed post. I appreciate all of your advice and concern about my sitch.

For the record, I am Michael Jan. My former password doesn't work. Agghh.

No, I'm not dating; not at all. I don't ask women out; I don't go to bars; I don't go online and solicit relationships.

The email before yours was from my WW. This was the old her, or think it was. It makes me sad and yet hopeful.

I've done all I can to kill her A through exposure. Now I just need to go for 50-50 at a minimum.

FWIW, I prefer this schedule with the kids: Wednesday night till Saturday night. I want to see my kids every weekend. But I get your point about the summers. Thanks again!

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful