Thanks Limb and Kay.
Its amazing the defense mechanisms that kick up. While I was talking to my IC, which I admit I do mostly for the sport of it... but it does help to verbalize some things with an �impartial� viewer... I again identified the resentment that I still harbor for my exww.

The resentments go from the recent emotional affair(s), to the secretive nature of her behavior, her haughty attitude towards our marriage, to her selfishness towards our kids, to her adoption of a sickeningly liberal attitude about human interactions, to the people she continues to surround herself with (including OM#2, a real pillar of moral character), to the lack of ability to let me know she was �lonely� for so long, to the lackluster attempts at recovering the marriage, to the total rejection of MB philosophy (calling it a �cult), to the original physical affair 10 years ago, to the refusal to try to get over whatever emotional block that prevented her from participating in SF (not to mention making me out to be the sick one: �you�re the sick one - married couples just don�t have sex that much�) [�I could go on, but the point I think is made�]

Other than that, I enjoyed being married to her.

I guess in their wayward little minds, we�re all just to �forgive and forget.� I will not forget. Doing so puts me in grave danger. Doing so puts me in the mindset that kept me married to her for 15 years: �she�s a good person underneath it all�she can change�her good outweighs her bad�I can do this for the benefit of my kids�I�m not perfect either��on and on like that.

Wexw also doesn�t have the insight that the woman I�m seeing (NG) is completely opposite of her. The contrast is quite striking. It makes me love and appreciate NG even more (and I tell her so frequently). My relationship also highlights just how unhappy I was. Wexw doesn�t want to believe any of this � the fantasy of it all leads to unrealistic expectations that I�m going to invite her over for boat painting parties. I wish her well, but I�m simply not interested in being friends with her.

opt

Bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaa haaaaaaa!!

I'll have to remember that line. It's funny how you slowly learn to put up with more and more awful stuff. I didn't crack until after 25 years of garbage. I'm glad you didn't wait that long.

I enjoyed some of my times with John too...not $50,000.00 worth of enjoyment however (that's what he took me for and we were only married for two years). No one is worth what he put me through! And now when I look back on the good memories, it's cast with a different perspective because I realize he was lying to me the whole time, didn't love me, hadn't made a real commitment, etc.

Hey guys, I may have to take this thread offline for at least some time. There is a discussion happening on another board that I am considering bringing to the attention of my exWW. If I do, there is the very real possibility that she will track me back to here. It would not be fair to NG to have the course of our relationship documented here be full knowledge of exww. I hope you all understand.

Thanks for all of your words thusfar-- NG and I continue to get along very well; she's a special woman and I feel very lucky to have met her.

...So, if this thread disappears in the next few days, that's where I went. I will still check in on your all's adventures!

opt

Take care, Opt, we'll be looking out for you...

I have to say I am very confused on why you would point your exWW here at this point in time. It's not your job to try to "enlighten" her anymore.

Yeh, I know Schtoop. It's about our D9 (OC). There is a very good discussion on the pregnancy board about when and how to inform the OC of their DNA parentage. It's pertinent and well-presented. Feel free to check it out - it's by writer1 if you're interested.

~Hope all's well for you and PG and the kids!


opt

K opt I hear ya on having to stay away from the board. I am glad you and NG are doing so well also.

I will be thinking of you as one of the personal recovery success storys here.


God Bless

Best of luck Opt. Hope it works out and you continue to pop your head back in from time to time.

Sorry folks, my thread is archived right now. I'll get it back and then ask the mods to merge this with it. For now I have this:

Hi all,
Sheepishly I return here after a prolonged absence. Nor have I offered my thoughts on other�s circumstances but I have checked in a couple times over the last months. The world has turned.

I�ve had a glorious 7 month relationship with Nature Girl. It has been a tremendous, heart-warming, life affirming experience. We hit it on all 6 cylinders and I never thought I�d find someone so compatible with me. We think the same way in so many ways. In Harley-speak, we met each other�s most important emotional needs.

Unfortunately, it gets complicated from there. I have two kids and 50% custody with them. Nature Girl has two kids as well; they are older (19 and 21) and I have made the tragic mistake of failing to recognize their potential impact on the relationship. My son has had a hard time warming up to NG, but has made progress in the last weeks with some talks and patience.

NG�s son seems to be following in his dead-beat alcoholic Father's footsteps. He was recently evicted and maved back with NG in her rented apartment, �just till the end of the month.� I am concerned this situation will repeat itself over the years in various forms.

The daughter has issues. I can�t get into them. However, on Thursday her insecurities landed too close to home when they directly affected my daughter, and indirectly my son. She accused my daughter of essentially �bullying� her, among other things, like dishonesty (to me), and manipulative behavior. [some babysitter, huh?] [for the record this is the first of ANY such report about D10. S15 was shocked and is also very upset about this whole thing]

Distressingly, NG went along with the whole thing, never giving my daughter a chance. She had her condemned without a single attempt to understand the entire situation or hearing another side of the story.

I have spent the last few days with my daughter. NG and me and the two daughters were all supposed to go away together, but NG�s D19 pulled out after the �bullying� incident�so my daughter and I made other plans � I wouldn�t subject her to a weekend of that kind of pressure without serious resolution and time to process it. I was able to get D10�s side of the story by patiently and unthreateningly questioning her. She did not deny any of the substance of the accusations, but says she was joking around and felt that NG�s D19 was going along with the game � it was a massive mis-understanding between the 2 girls.

On Friday I encouraged my D10 to apologize, which she did, in voicemail to NG�s D19. She was very sweet and sincere and frankly quite mature. She asked NG�s D19 to call her back. That call never came. A text saying �I appreciate the apology� (not ACCEPT), and would like to talk more in person.

Ummmmm, no. She said she was sorry. That�s enough. And that was the SECOND time my D10 had apologized � D19 did not accept it the first time either, stating �It�s fine, it�s fine� and not even looking at her (an observation D10 made herself�).


�..Sheesh, this is going on forever�.

So, meanwhile, I haven�t spoken to NG because I was with D10 and anyway, we had agreed not to talk about stuff like this over the phone. I texted on Saturday and said I had had a chance to sort some things out with D10 and would need to speak with her on Monday since I had the kids till Sunday (S15 is watching a movie as I write this � Limitless � it�s really good).

She texted back to ask what she did wrong and to let me know that my uncommunicative bahavior was � no way to treat someone you love.� Ironically the last time I got that line I was dating my now exWW. Over the years I realized it was the ultimate manipulative statement and has nothing to do with love. That dog will not bite me twice.

I texted back today (Sunday) saying I had taken the accusations against my daughter very seriously and that it was taking my whole attention. I asked her to be patient I would tell her what�s on my mind as soon as possible.

Tomorrow I think will have to tell NG I can�t see her anymore. We had been talking about spending the rest of our lives together. If it were just her and me, we might. However, I don�t believe our families can marry each other.

I�m sick over this. I�ve never broken up with someone (since HS). NG loved so deeply. I have been amazed by her capacity to engage emotionally. We had honesty like I had only read about. She�s going to be devastated.
However, as I read in another thread (Mel�s words), it would be cruel for me to continue with all these apprehensions and concerns.

***Thanks for reading, all you who are still here. I mostly wanted to organize my thoughts here, but would certainly welcome any of yours on the subject.

Opt

(((Opt)))

Dude, I think you're making a very wise decision.

IMO, the 19yo was utterly in the wrong even if your DD may have said the wrong thing. Your DD is a child and the 19yo is an adult.

Obviously NG's former marriage was really awful and her children have a lot of issues from their alcoholic father. I also suspect that NG has issues of her own that she hasn't worked through if she was so quick to assume that her own "adult" DD was right and your child was the one causing the problem.

I'm sorry. It must hurt a lot to have to end the relationship.

Opt,

I read your story a couple of times, and I am still not sure I completely understand all that transpired. Having said that, are you sure that you are not projecting your past issues with the ex onto NG? I don't see her text as manipulative, even if the choice of words may not have been ideal. I think she was simply asking you to tell her what was going on, after you went incommunicado.

I'd hate to see the whole relationship blow up over a misunderstanding (or even issue) between the kids, that seems like a shame.

AGG

I'm agreeing here with AGG.

What NG texted you was insensitive, but not that bad as a whole and certainly not indicative of a pattern of behavior. I agree that you were triggered, and that is on you and you shouldn't hold NG accountable for the extent of your hurt feelings.

I also think you need to give this situation with the kids a little time and perspective. Back off some, don't mix the families too much for a while, thens slowly reintroduce them. Bigger problems than the last episode will arise and you two will have to learn to work through them if you are going to be together.

I would certainly do that before throwing in the towel completely.

Hey, opt,

I probably should refrain from giving advice over here as I am not even divorced nor do I have any experience with dating after divorce but immediately one of Dr Harley's posts came to mind when I saw your update. I'll share it:



The rest of the post has to do with an affairage so I just pulled this part out. Here

So I guess what I am trying to say is: Since you were thinking of M with NG, have you discussed any MB princpiples with her such as POJA? Do you think you two could try to POJA this issue with the kids?

[As an aside, I will say that I am a little perplexed that a 19 yr old could feel bullied by a 10 year old child?? That is just weird... ]

I honestly feel that the one most manipulative person in your story was the D19, although, she may just need to grow up some more.

Opt, it's good to see you here.

I think you might be jumping the gun here a bit. If NG and you really do see eye to eye on DrH and MB type things, then I would say that you should have a frank and honest discussion about what is going on.

There are a few things that I see in your post, and I don't believe that this last incident is really the reason you want to end it, is there something else? Are you worried that this is going to be repeated throughout your R? Do you feel like it is you and your kids vs her and her kids?

I would try to work this out, as it may not be any easier to date ANYONE with children of their own, and then dating someone without children will pose other sets of problems.

Could it have been that you introduced the family to each other too soon, and there wasn't a real foundation that the two of you could stand on to fix issues like this?

Gosh you guys are great. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. It's still amazing to me how perceptive people can be when they truly care. IOW, I put down a lengthy somewhat porous post and you folks are able to see the salient points and offer reasonable suggestions all the way around. Overall, you helped me to get a full perspective prior to going into my talk with NG this evening.

* The update is that NG and I met after work to talk. While I don't welcome the drama of these situations (another reason to refrain from serious relationships until a substantial time has passed after the D is final....another rule I didn't really follow very well), I REALLY love the way NG handles the conversations that go along with them. She was very reasonable, understanding, humble, level-headed, optimistic, and conciliatory. Never did she antagonize, blame shift, get defensive, over-explain, raise her voice, cry (well, maybe a little), or do anything destructive.
* Ultimately, we decided to continue with some minor changes. We will deal with the kids' conflict in a non-threatening manner and NG actually asked for my help in teaching her D19 some social norms and more mature behaviors (we will POJA this - thanks Q!). NG admitted she was being overprotective and was sorry.
* NG had set some impressive limits with her son over the course of the weekend which I had been unaware of - difficult to do, but a step that endeared me to her for protecting herself emotionally; the boy is currently lost, unfortunately. She also assured me that he will not be allowed to wreak havoc on our relationship in the short or long term. I admitted he was beyond any help I could offer at this time.


@kirby - thanks for your input. There are definitely issues. What i've liked about NG all along is that she is willing to recognize her mistakes and is always trying to grow from them. Kinda like me.

@agg- always good to see you and hear your cogent remarks. You accurately identified that perhaps I was looking at NG's remark through the eyes of my past. Really, NG has no traits that would make her say something like that with the same intentions that exww had at the time. I was unfair to assume so.
I was re-evaluating the relationship (and it's potential) based on new information: the extent of D19's dysfunction and it's possible impact on my kids. So, I wouldn't allow one incident to destroy a viable relationship, but I was trying to define the future based on one incident.

@schtoop - I hope things are going well for you my good friend. You've been very dependable for me on these forums and I always look forward to your words. I will suggest we back off some on blending the families for now.

@Suzie- as I mentioned, the excerpt above was extremely relevant and useful. Thank you so much for offering it. Please don't hesitate to post here; you have been with me from the very beginning and I so value your input. NG has been very open to using MB principles, has read a couple Harley books. I will make an effort to talk about the POJA concept more directly. We tend to do it naturally when it's just us but I think we need to make a conscious effort in certain circumstances.

@Scot- thanks so much Scotty! I read your post after I got home from our talk. You hit it right - I was concerned that these situations were going to continue over and over in the long term. (remember, I married exww with certain expectations that never came to fruition. I'm intending to be very cautious here.) Anyway, I think NG truly desires for her D19 to develop in a healthy manner and she recognizes her retarded growth thus far (reasonably attributable to life circumstances, but still...). Your question is reasonable. I think we have a good foundation and lots of trust and admiration for each other. We may have rushed things with the kids. Ultimately there were some important lessons learned all around I think and while D10 was at risk for being steamrolled emotionally, with time and patience and teaching over the weekend (and her basic strong emotional nature) she has possibly gained the most.

thanks again everyone.
opt

That's fabulous! It sounded like her initial reaction was pretty defensive, but as long as you are both learning and growing y'all can work together on whatever issues come up.

Opt,
I'm sorry I missed getting on here sooner (I've had to cut back on computer time) but when I read you were going to break up with her, I felt it was a shame because I didn't feel her text was out of line, she was just letting you know she needed communication with you although it could have been stated in a more positive way rather than negative.

Blending families is extremely difficult but I don't see an answer other than working on it, unless you want to spend the rest of your life alone. The kids will grow up and leave home and the drama will lessen although the degree to which they interact with their parents after growing up varies greatly.

I just watch a Dr. Phil on this very issue and it was very good. His take is that parents need to discipline their own children and they need to agree on some ground rules and then both enforce those rules and present a united front. Some of the comments he made about the situations being dealt with were very good!

I wish you the best in your continuing relationship and all of the challenges that will come with it. It sounds like you have a great relationship. I wouldn't be as concerned about the statistics as I would making every effort to figure out the best way to make things work for everyone involved.

As far as her son goes...it could be that he is way beyond either of your help...prayer avails much but sometimes people have to hit rock bottom in order to realize they need change. Have the two of you considered going to Al-anon? It offers help and suggestions for family members of alcoholics. It helps you set boundaries and realize what you should and should not take on.

Hi, Opt. I just dropped back in for a bit.

I agree with most. Keep in mind, it's only be 7 months. For the children, it's been less than that, and adult children and be very resistent to a new person in the beginning. So, slow is key for the kids.

Also, keep in mind that because NG's children are adults, they are most likely never going to view your kids as siblings. They aren't growing up with them. I know that was really hard for my dad and his wife to accept.

And FWIW, I wouldn't allow NG's kids to babysit yours. Aside from the individual people involved, babysitting has a power structure that may not be conducive to blending families.

These challenges are good. See how NG handles them, see how well you resolve those. I swear I almost broke up with Mike 4 times before I married him. How we dealt with the big issues was what finally gave me the confidence to get remarried. I knew after two years that he was on the side of us, even when we were on opposite sides of an issue. I knew we could meet any challenge that came our way.

Kayce,
just wanted to thank you for your input. I will definitely consider your suggestions as usual. I like the Dr. Phil/POJA idea with the kids.
I don't get much chance to get back to these boards lately. Seems NG has got me into gardening this summer. NG and I are taking a sailing class together as well and every weekend seems to be something going on.
We'll keep plugging. It really is the blending families thing that is the challenge. Even her dogs have posed a problem (scheulding and then bringing them here - they stir up my 2 cats). If it were just me and her, we'd be fine...:)
well, thanks again.
Opt

Gg!! nice to see you! hope all is well.
Thanks for the point about having second thoughts with Mike -- that was inspiring b/c I know how great your relationship wound up being.
I will try to continue to take it slow with the kids. And no more babysitting - you make a great point and I wish I could have anticipated that.
opt