I will stall the divorce if I can and as long as I am married I will obviously remain in Plan B. If the divorce goes through I may or may not date [others] depending on how I feel at the time and may or may not still remain open to reconcilation as well, but I will never be his friend or accept casual contact with him so long as I live unless he comes to repentance.

Mehr,

Just my .02 here. Dating right after a divorce is BAD BAD BAD. It is basically worthless. Your heart would be in no way healed and it would be akin to having (albeit legal) a revenge affair for your heart definitely will not have been mended, and NEITHER would the hearts of your kids, who have to learn how to adjust to such sad situations as divorce.

I didn't date for a few years after. What did I do? I worked on me. I travelled with my ds. I went on vacations with my girlfriends! It was awesome. And I went thru IC to heal ME after the horrific ordeal I went thru with Darth.

I knew it was time to begin dating again, when my son asked me about it about 2.5 years after the divorce. We were watching Crocodile Hunter (Steve was alive then..miss him) and my son looked up at me and smiled. He said, "mom, Steve I seems like such a nice man. Plus he likes animals like I do. He is always happy. I think we should go on our next vacation to Australia. You and I will go to his zoo and you will look pretty. He'll think you're pretty and then he will move to America and you can date him."

That was the signal my son wanted me to move on personally and re-enter dating again.

Sadly, I had to explain to my son that Steve was already happily married, and that we can't bring him home to America.

The next tv show came on with Brady Barr on it. My son then asked the same thing.."Hey mom. Look at this cool guy named Brady. He likes snakes. I do too. Do you think he's cute?"

You get the drift.

And NO I did not remarry a man named Brady either But my dh does love going off-roading in his tricked out jeep w/my son, is devoted to him, taught him to kayak, hike, etc. Gets dirty with him, and did manage to show him a shark under his kayak when we were on our family vacation this year.

ARGH... CLEARLY the drop off situation is NOT working on Thursdays and Fridays when his mom is at work, but I have good news. That is that from now on he will be picking them up from the daycare/school on Thursdays and Fridays.

Plan B was broken AGAIN today.... I waited for him to park his car and, i thought, walk into the side door, then i walked out the front. The kids were crying and clawing at me with the 4 yo and 7yo crying and saying "no, I don't wanna go see daddy.... noooo"... so I didn't notice until I finally closed the door that THERE HE WAS. He was standing there. He started with, "I know you don't want to talk to me, but..."

I walked back into the house and shut the door. I waited a minute and he was still out there. Then he walked into the front door and started again, "I just need to talk to you about the money." Meanwhile, the kids are clawing at me and crying "nooo, don't leave mommy... nooooo" I detach myself from the ones that have ahold of my clothes and walk out the front door and WH is saying "Its just about the money next week." My daughter chased me all the way to the car crying about not wanting me to go. I became angry and said "I don't care about the money, look at what you are doing to the kids!"

I don't think he heard me though because he was inside the door of the house. I then drove away.

Yes. I need a new drop off plan, PRONTO, because tomorrow is an issue.

Mehr,

I'm concerned about the trauma for your children. How often are they going back and forth between you and your husband? AND, is the OW present? Is there a guardian ad litem for the children? Their degree of distress when you drop them off seems really extreme and stressful for both you and the children, especially since they are so young.

Have you talked to any professionals (ie., attorney, guardian ad litem, therapist) about the difficulties the children are having?

They see him 4 days in a 21** day cycle, yes the OW is involved in visitation, but not when I am there. My son (almost 7, this month) says he does not want to see daddy anymore. He doesn't want to visit him because he says he doesn't like the OW and that he hardly sees daddy anyway because there's always all these other kids there (not only OW's but also OW's best friend's 4 kids). But of course at his age he has NO CHOICE. My daughter, 4, just wants to be with me. I think she has a good time with daddy once she is with him. But she is really attached to me, especially since daddy left. I am the only stable thing in her life.

**Edit to clarify, its 2 days in a row Th/Fri then Sat-Sun on another week, and they do no overnights right now.

Mehr,

I am going to be very firm here. you get that lawyer to DO SOMETHING and YOU FILE FOR SOLE CUSTODY YOU HEAR ME?

This is simply too much for the kids and you're not doing anything about it, plus you are setting up a SLIPPERY SLOPE for how custody WILL GO AFTER THE DIVORCE do you know that?

The judge will SEE that you've been letting your crazy wh and his skankho (the one who bathes your kids you won't stop or get the lawyer to stop or investigate or file the alienation of affection suit against) GET THE KIDS REGULARLY and they don't want to go and they are now 100% officially traumatized by that. The judge will see that they are actively going over there and spending the night OFTEN and his ruling just may very well reflect that fact that it SEEMS like it is OKAY with you that your kids go over there and spend the night with skankho in the house and a wayward daddy being a bad daddy.

And don't think that seeing you and probably asking for TIME TO WAIT TO PAY HIS CS to you is eating cake. Nope. This man is out for HIMSELF. Number one.

Please stop all of this. Please. Go to a REAL plan B. MAKE YOUR ATTORNEY WORK FOR YOU AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU AND THE KIDS NOW. Stop wh from having the kids all the time.

Plus why are you letting him have the kids for overnights if the skank ho is spending the night??? Do you realize you can get this nipped in the bud if you do it right?

Okay I just called my attnorney and I will ask some more questions about this.

First, they are not getting any overnights. He drops them back off at 7pm. The youngest is still nursing. I also need to be VERY CAREFUL because he has already filed for a temporary relief for visitation and claimed that I am keeping the kids from him. I need to tread carefully. I am waiting for a call back.

Tomorrow, get a friend, family member, pastor, ANYBODY to take care of that drop-off. You definitely do not want to do that again. I don't say that to beat you up - you see that what you were doing, though it may have worked in the past, isn't working, and are taking steps to change it.

As to your interaction, you were ambushed and off guard. In a situation like that, unless you have your response planned in advance, it's very hard at the time.

Should you experience an ambush like that again, I would suggest that, rather than ignoring him, you briefly give him your full attention and ask, "Are you willing to give up all contact with the OW, forever?"

When he refuses, sputters, or whatever, you calmly and sweetly say, "Until then, we have nothing to talk about." And then walk away.

You want to do everything humanly possible to prevent these encounters in the first place, but if they happen despite all your precautions, it is better to answer like above if he tries to talk to you, than to ignore him. Or if he's not trying to talk to you, just smile, say hi, and leave.

By being nice, you refuse to let him hide in his rationalizations and justifications.

And when it's done, you go back to the drawing board and come up with even more precautions to keep a breach from happening again.

As to those poor, poor children, you need to deal with this on several fronts. One is to talk directly to them and give them a chance to say why they are so upset. Without coming right out and telling them, you are wanting to rule out some sort of abuse.

The other is to talk to them ahead of time, each time, and try to prepare them to leave you without totally having a breakdown.

There may be other things to explore in dealing with that, but those two suggestions are where I would start.

"temporary relief from visitation?" who's being relieved? you or WH? In my state minor kids always have a guardian ad litem who makes recommendations to the court after evaluating the children. If that's not the case where you live, an independent professional evaluation by a child psychologist should be part of your attorney's strategy. PUSH him/her on this.

I agree with Peachy here.

him, apparently, since I was supposedly keeping the kids from him (which I was not)... we don't have one of those guardians, haven't heard of that...

Ugh just checked my voicemail and somehow I missed the lawyer's call back, I never heard the phone ring though.

The kids tell me they stayed at grandma and grandpa's today, so no OW. I am thankful for that at least.

I have an appt with the lawyer next Tuesday to discuss things, especially since our court date for temporary support is next Thursday.

This really is a roller coaster. I can go from feeling amazing and happy with life to feeling really sad and missing my husband all in the same day. I don't think he is ever coming back. She must be great.

I spent brain cells tonight thinking about how I should have stayed in Plan A longer. It was working... he was so close to returning to me... and then I vanished and the "sweet" other woman is now in my place... I am afraid they might actually be well suited and will make it work.

mehr - I'm no vet here, psychologist, or expert of any kind, but I think your feelings are normal. Don't even think that. Their relationship is built on fantasy - not reality. You may or may not get your husband back, but you can't doubt yourself like this. I know that's easier said than done - I have the same feelings. However, it's not healthy for you. Focus on things you can control, you and your kids.

Don't be surprised if all of this takes time. My current WW is my second wife. My first wife decided that she didn't want kids, a year AFTER we were married. That was a deal breaker for me and we divorced - about 18 months after the D was final, she tried to re-establish contact with me. I cut her off. I guess what I'm trying to tell you is not to give up hope yet. The fantasy will crumble. You may or may not recover your marriage, but this relationship won't last over the long term. The odds are against it. Hang in there!

Mehr;
Are your kids home now? It is very late, and if you got 'em, you need to be resting.

Mehr - You and I have to stick together. I go through the same emotions. One part of the day I am raging because life is tough raising these four kids by myself. Then by the afternoon I think - patience, consistency, and Plan B. I can do this. They have one year in already, and three months with full nuclear exposure.

Like Andy said - the relationship is built on nothing but fantasy. My WH is completely in lala land and has no clue about reality.

My kids hate the OW, and have no desire to be around her. My WH is trying hard to get them to like her, but kids aren't dumb. They know she is evil.

Stick with me here because we have to be strong and patient. I know staying in Plan B is helping tremendously. I have lots of time during the day when I am in prayer. I feel GOD is telling me to stay out of their lives. Let this affair crumble on its own. I am their common enemy, and for the longest time my WH's punching bag.

I am letting her be the punching bag and meet all his needs. From the couple times I broke Plan B I know she is failing miserable on EN's for him.

Tough~

Mehr - I read Mortaman, QueeniesAdventure, and Mimi's thread weekly for inspiration. Each of them had the guts to keep going.

Something that I think our WH's have in common is the way their lives got consumed by kids and they are both young men. An old poster named, LovingAnyway, has had great insight on how to change yourself to handle a husband who had the "Running Away or Escaping" coping mechanism.

I am learning how to let go of control and the expectations I have for what my WH needs to do in our home. My WH felt so controlled by me for years.

Part of the main attraction to OW is she doesn't care what he does. In his mind she isn't controlling him (yet, I can see how she really is controlling and manipulating him).

Overtime as the OW's true colors come to light I will look like a better alternative to my WH because he will see me as no longer trying to control him. Plan B helps that by removing ourselves from their drama.

Currently I am learning how to communicate my needs differently than before so he doesn't feel controled by me. Then there are no expectations from me for him. This helps because then I no longer build resentment when he doesn't do what I want him to do.

Tough

Mehr, it is completely NORMAL to think this. I had some of these same thoughts. Sometimes, I would even convince myself into breaking Plan B just to get a fix. I even thought that if he just saw me, he would wake up. I would tell myself that I couldn't though. I couldn't disappoint the many people here who helped me through those hard days. I couldn't let all of what I did be for waste.

Sometimes, I read someone else's thread and I think that I should have done that, I could have done Plan A better, if onlys. They don't help anyone. Besides, my WH is so wayward, it wouldn't have done any good. We could have been doing that stupid dance for years and years, and I would have cracked emotionally.

Do you remember how difficult it was during Plan A? Do you remember your worst day/moment during it? Think about how that felt and if you would want to feel like that again. My bet is NO.

quit thinking about your wayward husbands' mindset then or now.

It matters not.

What matters is NEXT THURSDAY ok?

Focus on what you would like the outcome to be for next thursday and write them here.

For starters, how about FULL CUSTODY?

Thank you all for your thoughts... I have that appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday to discuss the court date on Thursday. Today was a good day, hopefully tomorrow also.